| IVOD_ID |
158877 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158877 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-2-19,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-15T09:57:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-15T10:05:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/427ddbb1724b1d1af1d740fcda6047e25a45ebd5c2e753184204766f4a2623bd5e42fc9f2fe0e8b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:57:17 - 10:05:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：
一、行政院函請審議「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。
四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等29人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
五、本院委員何欣純等23人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。
六、本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
七、本院委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
八、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。
九、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
十、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。
(第一案及第十一案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查)
【1月15日及16日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.pyannote[227].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[227].start |
507.47909375 |
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507.81659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[228].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[228].start |
511.05659375 |
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511.66409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[229].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[229].start |
511.93409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[229].end |
521.97471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[230].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[230].start |
512.20409375 |
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514.97159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[231].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[231].start |
516.57471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[231].end |
517.24971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[232].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[232].start |
517.85721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[232].end |
519.35909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[233].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[233].start |
519.89909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[233].end |
520.86096875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
20.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
35.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請聯視長請金吾聯視長委員好市長 要過年了喔 給大家好好過年一下最近傳那個水電都要漲 這個你們有明確講不會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
66.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
有確定喔有確定過年不會去啦過年也不能隨便去喔那個一定要經過一個審慎的一個評估完之後經過一個審議委員會去通訪去檢討過年已經不會去過年也不能隨便去好不好要讓大家好過年那是說只要尤其是電啦只要電一漲那個萬物起漲過去三年已經漲了五次了人民真的太苦了好不好想辦法不要想辦法不要漲所以今天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
68.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
96.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你要退休了我們這位來想我們一起來找不要漲電價的方法好這位來催這位來催我幫你找到一個很重要的蔡英文啦蔡英文總統他有提到電價在十年內不會大漲他講了三個理由來看看他講啊地雷只要落實節能就是省電啦使用效率增加了就不需要多繳電費啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
99.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
117.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個你們做了嗎這個落實我們現在推深度節能已經深度節能齁省多少電等一下給我一個報告我們今年從北匯到現在這樣齁我們省了差不多將近11億好 次長你退休錢給我你們省了多少電齁等一下他說啦你2000階段啦價格雖然是高但是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
135.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
它是2016年說的 但是它說兩個重點它說只要科技是會進步的規模擴大以後 成本自然就下降了奇怪喔 科技真的有進步啊 對不對你們買綠電 規模會擴大啦可是價格沒有漲 來我給你看一下來我統計啊 為民國100年 110年到115年 來給你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
145.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
148.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
再生能源這個過電的這個價格110年90.79那時候平均單價是多少4.69到113你看看你那時候價格從4.6反而跳到5.46你買這個綠電的這個錢從426億到113年跳到1311億跟蔡英文講的完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
174.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
196.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
市長 地雷科技有進步嘛 對不對 地雷量確實有像蔡英文講的 你們買的量是有增加嘛 對不對可是價格一直在漲啊 這出什麼事情因為這個後來是 因為那個前面是光電 後面是離岸風電啦所以兩個是不太一樣的所以地雷 人民看到就是避岸嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
198.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
219.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第二個就是你們整個設計上為什麼會越來越高沒有達到他做的嘛第三個他要講一個理由他說未來會修改電力法讓廠跟網提高並且提高台電的經營績效讓電價更為合理這個你們沒有做吧沒有做對不對因為現在我們有提一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
220.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
245.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那個電力法要來修正 因為整個經濟情況改變 還有能源結構改變喔如果你看 蔡英文以前說電不會大漲啊 對不對你們就是三點 看起來第一點可能做了一部分 可是做的也不夠啦你想 去年水電費 中央政府就開80億 今年變成100億啊你哪有省電 對不對 所以看起來三個都跳票喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
272.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以你要去想辦法去把這三個第三個可能你們已經做不到的你們又要修法又要倒貼路啊可是你要去想一想當初為什麼當總統的會提出這樣一個讓電不要漲可以參考嘛好不好好來我們再繼續來想辦法我相信經濟部跟台電一定做了很多改善的報告對不對我問你一下從2016年到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
275.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
台電有幾年它的稅務盈虧啊是呈現虧損的一百 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
282.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
305.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
216年開始 幾乎每年都虧損對不對剛開始2016可能要好一點點 後來動越來越大發委員其實在二五戰爭之前台電還是有盈餘的所以五二戰爭之前是有盈餘的嘛那後來我們也三度撥補 讓你漲的電價該漲的啊到今天還在虧 其實不是五二戰爭啦就是基本上 我相信台灣人民所有人都知道第一就是你從最廉價 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
307.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
335.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你核能不用嘛第二你去買綠電的時候買的太貴跟一幣案嘛現在的事這個等下大漏洞把它補起來你就會賺錢了啦好來 第一個進一步問台電為2016年開始寫過幾次改善公司體質還有營運績效的有關報告這個大院這邊都有要求啦這個可能要回去查幾次這邊可能有一百塊有了嘛第三點其實很重要你寫了一百次以上的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
336.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
356.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你主要的改善項目是哪些?有哪些是重複的?看旁邊有哪些是有改善的?有具體成效其實你只要從裡面去你以前提出來的計畫真的有改善有績效你就不會了解啊你怎麼從敗家子變成金雞母變敗家子又上不來對不對好所以今天我明確的要求請台電請台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
362.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
387.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
提出一個全面性具體的改革計畫書,其實沒困難的,我剛才說那幾點啦你從106年到現在,最重要的一百次,去把以前真正你覺得你要做沒有做的,或者是你做的有績效的,把它整理出來,好不好?你當初世界金融風暴的時候,那時候美國聯準會說過一句話,他們說像花旗一樣,大大不能倒的公司,台電也是一樣,大大不能倒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
388.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
405.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們會給你 我們可以救你一次可是不能夠給你再犯的機會我們人民跟立法院已經給台電多少次的機會了至少撥補三次了嘛 三千億了啦你現在還要拿一千億不算啦 不算啦台灣民眾黨做了決定不會有這一千億了好 更重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
406.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
433.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以不只要提出一個通盤檢討我們在談進一步談怎麼避免虧損再次出現現在發電輸電配電跟售電的這個四大部門請每個部門四大部門都把它列出來第一個當前的虧損情況是怎麼樣子那你要去追第二個虧損的原因第三個你未來預期虧損會在什麼地方第四個基於整個能源開始在轉型你有開始做一些重大建設嘛你的影響是什麼這四個另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在這個四大部門裡面要分別針對目前的虧損原因跟未來可能虧損要擬定一個對策出來拿一個具體改善的這個里程碑包括什麼台電你本身的本身還有供給面啊需求面跟市場面四個面向要做一個檢討另外最好相關的報告跟做法請三個月內好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
456.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
482.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
送到立法院來老蔣要趕快去做啦我剛才為蔡英文一開始蔡英文提的這三個點你們作為一個參考第二個我今天提的都是非常具體的從整個通盤的檢討到整個避免虧損的好不好請要做而且每集要做成檢討做成一個具體的成效我們分起來分起來達成這個目標好不好好 謝謝委員往前 議員 市長恭喜你要退休了你之前建立那個歷練平台大家是抱歉你有歷史上的定位有貢獻我們都是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
484.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
509.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
台電這幾年 從一個金雞母 不英帥的模範生被每年都要去撥補 要漲價 人已經是名念非常深的希望你最後還有機會 人在公民老休閒多幫他們台電的員工們 我知道台電那邊都是辛苦的 水準也是高的好不好 我們會給你掌聲跟支持可是我剛剛講的 我剛剛提的都是非常具體的好不好好 謝謝我們這兩部分 包括不要再虧損 還有整個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
512.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
520.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
三個月內要給我好不好那這位農爺希望又回到以後的模範生殖經濟模不要再一直只有撥補跟浪費這個一直在上電廠謝謝 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:37.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:37.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
請連次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:37.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:38.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請經濟部連次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.286 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:37.507000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:37.607000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:45.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:51.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
次長，要過年了，讓大家好過年一點，現在在傳水電都要漲。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.739 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:51.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:52.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
沒有，我們沒有要漲。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:51.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:55.286000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
你們有明確講不會，有確定了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:56.047000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:57.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
有確定，過年前不會漲。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2025-01-15T09:57:57.348000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2025-01-15T09:57:59.349000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
過年前不會漲，過年後也不能馬上漲喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.375 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2025-01-15T09:58:00.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2025-01-15T09:58:05.214000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
那個一定要經過審慎評估之後，再經過審議委員會的充分檢討，並考慮國內的經濟情勢…… |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.611 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2025-01-15T09:58:05.214000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2025-01-15T09:58:10.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
過年前不會漲，過年後也不能馬上漲，要讓大家好過年，好不好？會啦！會啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.552 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2025-01-15T09:58:12.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2025-01-15T09:58:23.448000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
老實講，尤其是電，只要電一漲就萬物齊漲，過去3年已經漲了5次了，人民真的太苦了，想辦法不要漲，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.81 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2025-01-15T09:58:25.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2025-01-15T09:58:31.144000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
你要退休了，今天我們一起來找不要漲電價的方法。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2025-01-15T09:58:31.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2025-01-15T09:58:57.999000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
我們一起來找，我幫你找到一個很重要的方法，蔡英文總統有提到電價在10年內不會大漲，他講了3個理由，我們來看一下，第一個，只要落實節能、省電，使用效率增加就不需要多繳電費，這個你們做了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.825 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2025-01-15T09:58:57.999000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:00.421000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
落實節能方面我們現在在推深度節能，已經在推了。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.619 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2025-01-15T09:59:00.421000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:03.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
深度節能省了多少電，等一下給我一個報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2025-01-15T09:59:03.324000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:07.348000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
我們今年從8月到現在省了差不多將近…… |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2025-01-15T09:59:07.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:10.571000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
次長，你退休前給我，你們省了多少電的報告。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.737 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2025-01-15T09:59:13.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:24.223000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
第二個，綠能現階段價格雖高，這是他在2016年說的，不過他有說到兩個重點，只要科技是會進步的，規模擴大以後成本自然就下降了，奇怪！ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.722 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2025-01-15T09:59:25.304000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:30.107000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
科技真的有進步，你們買綠電的規模也擴大了，可是價格沒有降。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2025-01-15T09:59:30.747000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2025-01-15T09:59:45.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
我統計從民國110年至115年的再生能源購電價格，110年的購電度數是90.79，那時候平均單價是4.69，到了113年的價格反而從4.69跳到5.46，你買綠電的錢從426億到113年跳到1,311億欸，跟蔡英文講的完全不一樣耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.76 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:12.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:13.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
第一個，科技有進步嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:13.655000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:14.616000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:14.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:18.659000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
第二個，量確實有像蔡英文講的，你們買的量是有增加嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:18.759000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:19.499000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:19.499000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:22.361000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
可是價格一直在漲啊，這出什麼事情？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:23.482000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:31.647000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
因為前面是光電，後面是離岸風電，所以兩個是不太一樣的。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:31.767000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:33.929000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
所以第一個，人民看到就是弊案嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.643 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:35.084000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:39.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
第二個就是你們整個設計上為什麼會越來越高，沒有達到他說的嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:39.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:52.762000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
第三個，他又講了一個理由，說未來會修改電業法，讓廠跟網提高，並且提高台電的經營績效，讓電價更為合理，這個你們沒有做嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.904 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:54.124000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2025-01-15T10:00:55.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
沒做對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2025-01-15T10:00:55.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:02.840000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
因為現在我們有提一個電業法要來修正，因為整個經濟情況改變還有能源結構改變，如果要讓…… |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:02.960000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:08.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
所以你看人家蔡英文以前就說電不會大漲，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.762 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:08.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:21.086000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
你們就是三點，看起來第一點可能做了一部分，可是做得也不夠啦，像去年水電費，中央政府就花80億，今年編101啊，你哪裡有省電，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:21.086000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:23.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
所以看起來三個都跳票喔！所以…… |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:23.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:25.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
沒有啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:25.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:38.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
你現在要退休，拜託一下，你要去想辦法去把這三個……第三個可能你們已經做不到了，你們又要修法又要「倒退嚕」，可是你要去想一想，當初為什麼當總統的會提出這樣一個讓電不要漲，可以參考嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.835 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:39.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:40.017000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:41.719000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:48.325000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
好，來，我們再繼續來想辦法，我相信經濟部跟台電一定做了很多改善的報告，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:48.325000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2025-01-15T10:01:54.859000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
我問你一下，從2016年到現在，台電有幾年它的歲末盈虧是呈現虧損的？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2025-01-15T10:01:59.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:01.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
2016年開始幾乎每年都虧損，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:01.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:04.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
剛開始2016可能還好一點點…… |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:04.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:05.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
沒有啦…… |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:04.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:04.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
後來洞越來越大。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:04.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:06.022000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
中間有盈餘啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
蔡副總經理志孟 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:06.022000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:09.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
報告委員，其實在俄烏戰爭之前，台電還是有盈餘的。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.762 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:10.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:11.726000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
所以烏俄戰爭之前是有盈餘的嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:12.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:17.189000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
後來我們也三度撥補，讓你漲了電價該漲的啊，到今天還在虧，其實不是烏俄戰爭啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.912 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:18.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:25.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
基本上，我相信臺灣人民的稅率這麼高，第一個就是最廉價的核能你不用嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.71 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:26.317000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:28.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
第二你去買綠電的時候買得太貴跟弊案嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:29.300000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:31.802000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
這兩大漏洞把它補起來，你就會賺錢了啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:32.182000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:40.209000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
好，進一步問，台電從2016年開始寫過幾次改善公司體質還有營運績效的有關報告？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
蔡副總經理志孟 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:43.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:46.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
報告委員，這個大院這邊都有要求啦，這個可能要回去查，幾次這邊…… |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.852 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:46.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:47.555000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
可能有100次了吧！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:48.876000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:56.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
其實第三點最重要，你寫了100次以上的報告，你主要的改善項目是哪些、有哪些是重複的？ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.914 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2025-01-15T10:02:57.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2025-01-15T10:02:59.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
看後面這裡，有哪些是有改善的、有具體成效？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2025-01-15T10:03:01.051000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2025-01-15T10:03:11.177000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
其實你只要從裡面去看你以前提出來的計畫真的有改善、有績效，你就不會賠錢了啊，你怎麼會從金雞母變敗家子又上不來？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.922 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2025-01-15T10:03:11.177000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2025-01-15T10:03:11.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2025-01-15T10:03:11.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2025-01-15T10:03:34.816000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
好，所以今天我明確地要求，請台電提出一個全面性具體的改革計畫書，其實不困難，就是我剛才說的那幾點，你從106年到現在至少拿過100次了，去把以前真正你覺得要做沒有做的，或者是你做了有績效的，把它整理出來好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2025-01-15T10:03:35.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2025-01-15T10:03:50.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
當初世界金融風暴的時候，那時候美國聯準會說這一句話，它說像花旗銀行那種大到不能倒的公司，台電也是一樣，大到不能倒的，我們會給你，我們可以救你一次，可是不能夠給你再犯的機會。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2025-01-15T10:03:50.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2025-01-15T10:04:01.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
我們人民跟立法院已經給台電多少次的機會了，至少撥補3次了嘛，3,000億了，你現在又要來拿1,000億，沒有了啦，台灣民眾黨做的決定，不會有這1,000億了。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.814 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2025-01-15T10:04:01.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2025-01-15T10:04:30.359000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
好，更重要的，所以不只要提出一個通盤檢討，我們進一步談怎麼避免虧損再次出現，現在發電、輸電、配電跟售電的這四大部門，請四大部門每個部門都把它列出來，第一個，當前的虧損情況是怎麼樣子；第二個，你要去追虧損的原因；第三個，未來預期虧損會在什麼地方；第四個，基於整個能源開始在轉型，有開始做一些重大建設，你的影響是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2025-01-15T10:04:30.359000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2025-01-15T10:04:41.742000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
這四個，另外在四大部門裡面，要分別針對目前的虧損原因跟未來可能虧損，要擬定一個對策出來，然後一個具體改善的里程碑，包括什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2025-01-15T10:04:42.023000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2025-01-15T10:04:47.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
台電你本身還有供給面、需求面跟市場面四個面向，要做一個檢討。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2025-01-15T10:04:47.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2025-01-15T10:04:51.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
另外最後，相關的報告跟作法請3個月內，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.85 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2025-01-15T10:04:53.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2025-01-15T10:04:59.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
送到立法院來，老實講，要趕快去做，我剛才從蔡英文開始，蔡英文提的這三個點，你們作一個參考。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:00.246000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:05.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
第二個，我今天提的都是非常具體的，從整個通盤的檢討到怎麼避免虧損好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:05.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:06.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:06.370000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:11.594000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
而且每季要做成檢討，做成一個具體的成效，我們分期來達成這個目標，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:12.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:12.494000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
好，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:13.355000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:19.879000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
次長，恭喜你要退休了，你之前建立那個綠電平臺，大家是給掌聲，你有歷史上的定位、有貢獻。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.838 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:22.381000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:39.211000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
台電這幾年從一個金雞母、國營事業的模範生，變每年都要去撥補、要漲價，已經是民怨非常深的，我希望你最後還有機會，人在公門好修行、多幫他們，台電的員工們，我知道台電的員工是辛苦的，水準也是高的，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.793 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:39.311000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:43.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
我們會給你掌聲跟支持，可是我剛剛講的、我剛剛提的都是非常具體的，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:44.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:45.055000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:45.055000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:50.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
我們這兩部分包括不要再虧損，還有整個計畫，3個月內要給我好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
張委員啓楷 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:51.622000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2025-01-15T10:05:57.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
我們一起努力，希望又回到以後的模範生、金雞母，不要再一直只有撥補跟浪費，一直在漲電價，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.725 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2025-01-15T10:05:57.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2025-01-15T10:06:02.104429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
模範生可以講3分鐘，模範中的模範，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2025-01-15T10:06:02.404429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2025-01-15T10:06:05.547286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0 |