| IVOD_ID |
158830 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158830 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
28 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-13T10:43:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-13T10:55:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/293c543958a38e4757060687cffd0926b1c135165b29e3b3f85eb60e410638a8be90c14cbbb16b115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:43:37 - 10:55:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部率所屬相關單位列席就「號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨害司法公正罪之現行犯？」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
（一）行政院函請審議「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員吳沛憶等23人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。） |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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405.03096875 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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鄭部長銘謙 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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吳委員思瑤 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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鄭部長銘謙 |
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0.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
4.499 |
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謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
7.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
1990的野百合學運剛剛中嘉賓趙偉已經說了他當年人在入伍不在現場其實當年吳思瑤也在現場但是我年紀比較小那時候我還不是大學生沒有辦法在自由廣場上跟著這些大哥哥大姐姐一直為了台灣的民主改革發聲那個時候我是高中生我主動在下課之後你也是高中生然後下課之後主動到長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
56.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
廣場外我們站在那裡一起向這些為民主奮鬥的學長姐們我們一起來支持跟奧援但是呢 欸 張偉你可以請坐我稍後請 沒關係但是我真的覺得35年前的野百合學運它的純真 它的理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
57.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
79.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
被拿來跟2025年挺貪腐的一場遊行相提並論我的心情非常的沉重這個本質的良善與否大不相同對於台灣的政治革新所造成的時代意義也大不相同沒有開始計時喔我以為開始計時那先請部長請不好意思 那請部長好 那麼有請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
112.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以真的不要把三十五年前的野百合學運那個神聖性對台灣的民主運動所造成所帶來的這種正向的時代意義跟這週末定格基挺貪腐的行動相提並論我認為是褻瀆了這些三十五年前在廣場上的年輕的學生們那我也要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
在參與任何一場集會 結社遊行的人民無罪在自由民主的台灣 人民參與表達他的表意自由都是充分被保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是今天我們要訴求的反對政治介入司法反對去帶動民粹挑戰司法我認為該受撻伐跟質疑的是這些帶頭的政治工作者 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
145.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
169.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們無意對人民的權利行使來進行批判該受批判的是這些搞政治鬥爭利用善良百姓來作為政治鬥爭工具的這些政客才值得被批判好 下一頁這場定格基活動的訴求是反對綠色威權 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
172.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
192.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
如果是威權時代能夠有這樣的集會結社跟言論表意的自由嗎不可能有嘛當天的活動沒有人去限制沒有人去強害活動的進行甚至到活動結束的最終 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
194.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
214.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
带头的黄国昌委员带着人民扬言要冲进下一次可以努力来冲进总统官邸或者是有统促党的代表在台上煽动人民说我们可以一把火把地检署烧掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
235.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
这种涉及暴力威吓的言论就不能纵容除此之外当天的活动平和顺利的进行部长有任何来现场制止集会结社言论表意自由的公权力的作为吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
238.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
260.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
是警政署我知道這是集會遊行法 這是警政署但是當天都非常非常的平和順利所以說並沒有威權的存在當今的自由民主的台灣如果有威權 如果搞戒嚴怎麼可能會有這樣的集會結社的自由呢不是嗎但是我個人又感同身受 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
281.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
挺柯文哲是個幌子瘦肌肉搞政治的鬥爭來做政治的結盟才是事實啊當天除了發起的民眾黨的委員們我們國民黨的委員也都共襄盛舉了甚至統促黨的代表上台了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
305.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
還有支持一中框架的統派的團體也到場了白色 藍色 紅色大家一起來挺單一的司法個案社會會有評論的也不需要立委在這邊大家在這裡說你對我對 你錯我錯社會會有公斷歷史會有評價但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
311.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想問一下部長喔從柯文哲的案子誰是舉發人柯文哲的案件是民意代表來告發的那你知道是誰嗎有知道是鍾小平跟游淑慧的私語人對有中性的私語人那林姿妙縣長的涉貪案是誰舉發的你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也是民意代表是民眾黨的陳婉慧前立委那請問高鴻安的涉貪案誰是舉發人?是,是國民黨籍的政治工作者林耕仁換言之來找民進黨出氣有沒有找錯對象? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
372.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
柯文哲的案是國民黨的鍾小平遊俗會舉發的林姿妙涉貪案是民眾黨的陳婉蕙提告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
388.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
高鴻安的案件是國民黨籍的靈根人請問哪一位是民進黨人去舉發、去介入、去挑起、去製造司法選擇性辦案的可能就講事實嘛哪裡有執政黨在追殺在野黨呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
404.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
更何況部長 任何司法個案偵辦的核心是證據吧事實上跟誰舉發也沒有關係啊有證據就辦 沒有證據勿枉勿縱嘛這是最簡單的司法常識 不是嗎所以這種 你個人對於這樣子的一個活動的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
422.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
432.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
部長您總有看法吧我們當然尊重集會表意的自由但是對於這樣一個扣上是執政黨在打壓司法的主題您總有您的見解吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
435.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們這個表意的自由我們都尊重尤其是有依法生存那你要不要為司法人員認真辦案專業養成的司法人員發聲這個有對什麼要火燒這個我們是覺得說這個是有可能甚至有人拿著標語說法律人要退出司法體系你有沒有看到對於這樣的主張你有什麼comments對於我們這麼專業努力養成公正獨立辦案的司法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
489.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
作為大家長 您總要說一下吧捍衛法律人的尊嚴 專業我想我們在整個法律的尊嚴我想我們是要去維護的那對司法的這些公證我想我們要去呵護的而不是說去做一個脫序的攻擊那我想這個是我們不樂見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
490.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
503.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
要為法律人堂堂正正公正辦案的法律人站出來說話因為我們是希望那個司法是維護公正聯名清廉的一個形象來 夏業我們一起來協詢黃國昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
530.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這是當初時代力量的黨主席徐永明涉入SOGO案的時候同一個黨籍的立法委員黃國昌他說的話尊重司法裁判與當事人上訴的權利也相信司法終究會給人民應得而公正的判決這是法律教我們的事也是每位公民應有的態度與信念 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
533.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
2022的黃國昌何在?當時同樣是他同一個黨的黨主席涉案但黃國昌如果還有法律人的良知跟專業就應當回到他當年所說的尊重司法的裁判與當事人上訴的權利要相信司法會給人民應有的公正判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
556.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
578.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所有的法律人跟所有的公民都要有這樣的態度跟信念協尋黃國昌黃國昌已經消失太久了2025年在這裡跟我們坐在司法法治問政的黃國昌我真的已經認不得他了來最後下一頁如果委員們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
580.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
602.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一場活動不能被認為是司法妨礙司法那麼我要說惡砍法務部的預算甚至在沒有開始審之前就揚言要砍預算這就是非常惡質的政治意圖我已經整理出來了過去三年法務部的預算被凍結被刪減都不到1% |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
607.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
626.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為大家支持司法辦案立委當然可以監督預算但是要合乎理性以這個會期來講司法法委員會審訊的法務部預算已經被凍結的具體成案的是4691萬毒品防治基金被凍了1000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
628.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
634.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
保留凍結數有3億715萬這都是史上未見的以過去三年的凍結數審議完略是487萬但現在加總起來連保留連決議的已經高達3億67000萬史上未見而簡列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
655.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
677.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
目前也有7362萬被保留很可能會透過表決砍光光部長你雖然擔任部長時間不長但是您當法務部同仁也整理給您過去審預算的一些經驗你有看過這個預算被砍得這麼高或是被凍得這麼多的情形嗎今年比較今年比較特殊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以我們希望委員能夠多支持因為保護部的預算事實上就全力在做一個整個一個推動我們各項的一個政策包括打炸毒品好 回到前一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
697.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
712.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我要再次提醒如果在野黨的委員認為一場活動他們不承認不認為那是妨礙司法公正罪不認為是動用民粹來包圍施壓司法的話那我要提醒立委在立法院透過質詢預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
715.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
729.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這一個人事案用立委的實質影響力來干涉司法體系的運作這恐怕就會傷及我們的司法獨立跟運作了做這樣的提醒謝謝主席好謝謝吳委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:41.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2025-01-13T10:43:41.479000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2025-01-13T10:43:44.408000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:03.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
1990年的野百合學運，剛剛鍾佳濱召委已經說了，他當年入伍服役，人不在現場，其實當年吳思瑤也在現場，但是我年紀比較小，那時候我還不是大學生，沒有辦法在自由廣場上跟著這些大哥哥大姐姐一起為臺灣的民主改革發聲。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.89 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:03.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:06.865000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
那個時候我是高中生，我主動在下課之後…… |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
吳委員宗憲 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:06.865000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:07.865000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
我也是。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:07.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:07.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
你也是喔。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:09.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:22.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
下課之後，主動到廣場外，我們站在那裡，一起給這些為民主奮鬥的學長姐們支持跟奧援，但是…… |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:23.817000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:27.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
召委，你可以請坐，我稍後請，沒關係。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:27.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:52.694000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
但是我真的覺得，35年前野百合學運的純真理念被拿來跟2025年挺貪腐的一場遊行相提並論，我的心情非常的沉重，兩者本質的良善與否大不相同，對於臺灣的政治革新所造成的時代意義也大不相同。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.975 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:53.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:53.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
沒有開始計時喔？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:54.555000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:55.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我以為開始計時了…… |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:55.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:56.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
對，因為你還沒有邀請官員。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:55.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:55.896000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
那先請部長，不好意思，請部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2025-01-13T10:44:55.896000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2025-01-13T10:44:56.336000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
好，有請鄭部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2025-01-13T10:45:02.498000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2025-01-13T10:45:28.683000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
所以真的不要把35年前野百合學運的神聖性，對臺灣民主運動所造成、所帶來的正向的時代意義，跟上週末「釘孤枝」挺貪腐的行動相提並論，我認為這是褻瀆了35年前在廣場上的年輕學生們。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2025-01-13T10:45:28.843000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2025-01-13T10:46:19.903000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我也要說，參與任何一場集會結社遊行的人民無罪，在自由民主的臺灣，人民參與展現其表意自由，都是充分被保障的，但是今天我們要訴求的是反對政治介入司法、反對帶動民粹挑戰司法，我認為該受撻伐跟質疑的是這些帶頭的政治工作者，我們無意對人民的權利行使進行批判，該受批判的是這些搞政治鬥爭、利用善良百姓作為政治鬥爭工具的政客，才值得被批判。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2025-01-13T10:46:24.265000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2025-01-13T10:46:36.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
這場「釘孤枝」活動的訴求是反對綠色威權，如果是威權時代，能夠有這樣的集會結社跟言論表意的自由嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2025-01-13T10:46:36.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2025-01-13T10:46:37.563000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
不可能有嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2025-01-13T10:46:38.804000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2025-01-13T10:47:17.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
當天的活動，沒有人去限制、戕害活動的進行，甚至到活動結束的最終，帶頭的黃國昌委員帶著人民，揚言下一次要努力衝進總統官邸，還有統促黨的代表在臺上煽動人民說，我們可以一把火把地檢署燒掉，這種涉及暴力威嚇的言論，就不能縱容。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2025-01-13T10:47:19.001000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2025-01-13T10:47:31.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
除此之外，當天的活動平和順利的進行，部長，現場有任何制止集會結社言論表意自由的公權力作為嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.69 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2025-01-13T10:47:31.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2025-01-13T10:47:35.306000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
這部分那個…… |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2025-01-13T10:47:35.306000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2025-01-13T10:47:36.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
是警政署，我知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2025-01-13T10:47:37.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2025-01-13T10:47:38.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
對，集會遊行法是警政署…… |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2025-01-13T10:47:39.248000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2025-01-13T10:47:55.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
對，但是當天都非常非常的平和順利嘛，所以並沒有威權的存在，當今自由民主的臺灣，如果有威權、如果搞戒嚴，怎麼可能會有這樣的集會結社自由呢，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2025-01-13T10:47:55.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2025-01-13T10:48:08.638000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
但是我個人又感同身受，挺柯文哲是個幌子，秀肌肉、搞政治鬥爭來做政治結盟，才是事實啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.973 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2025-01-13T10:48:10.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2025-01-13T10:48:42.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
當天除了發起的民眾黨的委員們，國民黨的委員也都共襄盛舉，甚至統促黨的代表上臺了，還有支持一中框架的統派團體也到場了，白色、藍色、紅色，大家一起來挺單一的司法個案，社會會有評論的，也不需要立委們大家互相在這裡爭論你對我對、你錯我錯，社會會有公斷，歷史會有評價。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2025-01-13T10:48:48.550000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2025-01-13T10:48:52.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
我想問一下部長，柯文哲的案子誰是舉發人？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2025-01-13T10:48:54.471000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2025-01-13T10:48:58.372000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
柯文哲的案件是民意代表告發的。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2025-01-13T10:48:58.693000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:01.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
你知道是誰嗎？知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:02.593000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:04.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
是鍾小平跟游淑慧市議員。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:04.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:07.415000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
對，有鍾姓市議員。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.286 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:07.415000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:12.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
林姿妙縣長的涉貪案是誰舉發的，你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:14.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:17.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
也是民意代表，是民眾黨的陳琬惠前立委。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:19.353000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:23.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
請問高虹安的涉貪案，誰是舉發人？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:23.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:24.456000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
這個委員的簡報裡面有…… |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:24.456000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2025-01-13T10:49:32.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
是，是國民黨籍的政治工作者林耕仁，換言之「釘孤枝」遊行找民進黨出氣，有沒有找錯對象？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.861 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2025-01-13T10:49:39.878000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2025-01-13T10:50:05.125000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
柯文哲案是國民黨的鍾小平、游淑慧舉發的；林姿妙涉貪案是民眾黨的陳琬惠提告的；高虹安的案件是國民黨籍的林耕仁舉發的，請問哪一位是民進黨去舉發、介入、挑起、製造司法選擇性辦案的可能？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.852 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2025-01-13T10:50:05.145000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2025-01-13T10:50:05.505000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
就講事實嘛，就講事實嘛，哪裡有執政黨在追殺在野黨呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.783 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2025-01-13T10:50:14.421000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2025-01-13T10:50:20.665000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
更何況，部長，任何司法個案偵辦的核心是證據吧，事實上跟誰舉發也沒有關係啊，有證據就辦，沒有證據勿枉勿縱嘛，這是最簡單的司法常識，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2025-01-13T10:50:20.665000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2025-01-13T10:50:40.565000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
所以你個人對於這樣的活動主題，部長，您總有看法吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2025-01-13T10:50:40.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2025-01-13T10:50:49.510000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
我們當然尊重集會表意的自由，但是扣上執政黨打壓司法這樣一個主題，您總有您的見解吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.763 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2025-01-13T10:50:53.082000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2025-01-13T10:50:56.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
表意的自由我們都尊重，尤其是有依法申請…… |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2025-01-13T10:50:56.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:01.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
那你要不要為認真辦案、專業養成的司法人員發聲？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:01.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:05.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
對於活動中有人說要火燒的這個部分，我們覺得這個是有…… |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.583 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:05.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:09.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
甚至有人拿著標語，訴求要法律人退出司法體系，你有沒有看到？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:10.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:13.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
對於這樣的主張，你有什麼comments？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:13.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:22.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
對於我們這麼專業努力養成、公正獨立辦案的司法人員，作為大家長，您總要說一下吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:25.341000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:28.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
捍衛法律人的尊嚴、專業。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:28.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:46.112000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我想整個法律的尊嚴是我們要去維護的，對司法的公正，我們要去呵護而不是脫序的去攻擊，這是我們不樂見的。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:47.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:52.710000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
要為法律人、為堂堂正正、公正辦案的法律人站出來說話。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2025-01-13T10:51:52.710000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2025-01-13T10:51:57.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
因為我們希望司法是維護公正廉明、清廉的形象。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2025-01-13T10:52:00.001000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2025-01-13T10:52:27.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
我們一起來協尋黃國昌，這是當初時代力量的黨主席徐永明涉入Sogo案的時候，同一個黨籍的立法委員黃國昌說的話，他說「尊重司法裁判與當事人上訴的權利，也相信司法終究會給人民應得而公正的判決，這是法律教我們的事，也是每位公民應有的態度與信念。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.945 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2025-01-13T10:52:30.411000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2025-01-13T10:52:31.732000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
」2022年的黃國昌何在？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2025-01-13T10:52:33.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2025-01-13T10:52:58.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
當時和他同一個黨的黨主席涉案，但黃國昌如果還有法律人的良知跟專業，就應當回到他當年所說的，尊重司法的裁判與當事人上訴的權利，要相信司法會給人民應有的公正判決，所有的法律人跟所有的公民都要有這樣的態度跟信念。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.99 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2025-01-13T10:53:00.562000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2025-01-13T10:53:11.111000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
我們要協尋黃國昌，黃國昌已經消失太久了，2025年跟我們坐在司法及法制委員會問政的黃國昌，我真的已經認不得他了。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2025-01-13T10:53:12.171000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2025-01-13T10:53:33.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
最後，如果委員們認為一場活動不能被視為妨害司法，那麼我要說，惡砍法務部的預算，甚至在沒有開始審之前就揚言要砍預算，這就是非常惡質的政治意圖。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2025-01-13T10:53:33.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2025-01-13T10:53:50.737000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
我已經整理出來了，過去3年法務部的預算被凍結、被刪減都不到1%，因為大家支持司法辦案，立委當然可以監督預算，但是要合乎理性。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2025-01-13T10:53:51.717000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2025-01-13T10:54:06.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
以這個會期來講，在司法及法制委員會審竣的法務部預算中，已經被凍結的、具體成案的是4,691萬，毒品防制基金被凍了1,000萬，保留凍結數有3億715萬，這都是史上未見的。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.879 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2025-01-13T10:54:06.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2025-01-13T10:54:41.666000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
以過去3年的凍結數來看，審議完竣是487萬，但是現在加總起來，連保留、連決議的已經高達三億六、七千萬，史上未見；而減列數在目前也有7,362萬被保留，很可能會透過表決砍光光。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.843 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2025-01-13T10:54:42.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2025-01-13T10:54:54.254000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
部長，你雖然擔任部長的時間不長，但是法務部的同仁也有整理過去審預算的一些經驗給你，你有看過預算被砍或被凍這麼多的情形嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2025-01-13T10:54:54.254000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2025-01-13T10:54:54.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
今年比較…… |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2025-01-13T10:54:54.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2025-01-13T10:54:54.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
今年比較特殊？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
鄭部長銘謙 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2025-01-13T10:55:00.379000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2025-01-13T10:55:12.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
所以我們希望委員能夠多支持，因為法務部的預算事實上就是用來全力推動我們各項的政策，包括打詐、毒品…… |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
吳委員思瑤 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2025-01-13T10:55:12.828000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2025-01-13T10:55:45.197000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
好，回到前一頁，我要再次提醒，如果在野黨的委員對於一場活動他們不承認那是妨害司法公正罪，不認為是動用民粹來包圍、施壓司法，那我要提醒，立委在立法院透過質詢、預算、杯葛人事案，用立委的實質影響力來干涉司法體系的運作，這恐怕就會傷及我們司法的獨立跟運作了，我做這樣的提醒，謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2025-01-13T10:55:46.058000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2025-01-13T10:55:46.898000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
好，謝謝吳委員，謝謝鄭部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.545 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2025-01-13T10:55:47.398000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2025-01-13T10:56:03.398000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
在這裡預作一個會議的程序宣告：在場有張委員、翁委員跟王委員，在這幾位委員發言完畢後我們休息5分鐘，因為天冷，所以大家有些需要。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2025-01-13T10:56:03.698000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2025-01-13T10:56:07.983714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
好，接下來我們就請張委員啓楷發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0 |