| IVOD_ID |
158761 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158761 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-08T11:01:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-08T11:14:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/740a0dd0b202cb580244223f2c28cecca56fd3a12bc29fbbeefebb33f5927238686bf1ce6383841d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:01:23 - 11:14:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣糖業股份有限公司、台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)
【1月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
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請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 我們邀請部長請郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.922 |
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委員好 部長好 部長我們現在總預算裡頭的公務預算1000億那之前我們也追加1000億所以台電希望要撥補這個2000億但是我們看到台電送來的這一份財務改善計畫裡面的報告我不知道你有沒有看過因為它裡面的結論是說就算 |
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46.768 |
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補了兩千億在二零二六年跟二零一七年呢二零二七年呢仍舊會虧損而且台電也特別說他沒有辦法單靠自身努力達到損益兩平而且他還建議喔他建議說如果燃料成本波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.408 |
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86.079 |
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那麼可考慮適度的來調整民生電價或者是政府持續來補助民生用電那如果依照台電的這份財務改善計畫的報告來說那是不是 也就是說要繼續的要錢嗎還是要繼續的來漲電價 請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.061 |
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報告委員我想我們在請這個大院同意撥補這個錢主要是在協助我們改善台電的財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
102.697 |
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125.201 |
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是台電的財務當然啊 但是你也曾經講過啊你說如果拿到撥補這兩千億如果還在漲電價那就是你下台的時候啊我們聽到了這句話覺得你非常有gas啊所以我們很期待這一份台電的財務計畫的報告但是我們看到了也就是說即使在撥補這個兩千億仍舊仍舊 還有兩個方案 |
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130.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
131.815 |
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提出兩個方案繼續撥補還是說要漲民生電價請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
137.112 |
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157.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
漲不漲價這個我想委員應該很清楚啦他的報告書已經這麼說了嘛那你認為會不會你認為會不會電價委員他們在決定不過我想行政院大概會考慮未來這個補助的部分可能不會由台電來承擔就是由各個單位自己來編預算來撥補這樣子 |
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163.362 |
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181.059 |
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那台電我們現在沒有辦法做未來長期的這個假設所以我們也是就這個115年114、115、116嘛我們大概是談這樣然後大概17、118它算出來大概就是會虧損主要還是因為這個洞比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
182.04 |
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208.253 |
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那我們又要借錢拿借錢來做那再來未來的這個我們相信不過我就我的專業來看跟委員報告也就是說因為這個牽扯到材料的這個原料的價格不是控制在自己手上這個我們都要去海外去買一些原料不管是煤或者是這個天然氣這些都是要向外購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
209.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
224.145 |
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大部長您這麼回答 也就是台電的這個財務改善計畫那麼您目前所回答跟他們的論點是相同喔那所以民眾看到這個會害怕我即使在波普 因為之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
224.605 |
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230.492 |
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你們一再說台電吸收的民生用電2800億但是我們再看到2023年其實我們增資的部分呢已經預算編列是2500億又來一個特別預算是500億如果再加上這2000億等於在三年就有5000億耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
244.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
247.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這就是人民的納稅錢耶所以人民希望的是大家必須要有一套方案讓人民可以知道可以安心嘛尤其在現在通本的這個情況啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
257.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
282.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員現在我們非常同意委員的指教就是說民生的部分民生的部分我們來努力來努力維持這個希望能夠讓這些審議委員能夠同意不漲價民生的部分不漲價我謝謝你的回答因為現在真的民眾很辛苦但是對那個出口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
283.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
310.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他的業務是出口的而且他有很高利潤的我們希望他可以接受市場的變動的價格我現在聽到部長你誠意的回答也看到民眾的心聲民生的店價不漲這第一個但是我們看到你還是要解決問題也就是在你整個也就是我本身要請教何能 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
311.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
331.945 |
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在您的任內 在賴清德總統的任內 會不會演繹你這又便宜 全世界又認可的 我們不用到目前為止 本席一直希望在這個委員會 在大院執行的時候我也特別要求 本席特別要求 你也答應的 光電 風電 天然氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
334.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
351.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
接收站以及相關的發電量建設計這個進度你必須逐年的方式來公佈也就是列出每一年的進度跟目標但是到目前為止你答應的時候月底現在已經一月了我們還沒有拿到你的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
351.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
370.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
為什麼會如此呢部長這是你在大院跟在經濟委員會答應本席的今天已經1月8號本席希望要信所承諾這些就是人們希望要知道的是不是要如期趕快拿出你的這個進度跟目標呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
372.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
390.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們如果承諾的事情應該是都會如期的交上來那為什麼沒有如期呢是非常暴露出了什麼狀況呢那我回去以後再了解一下好 所以請你敬書送來我們希望能夠知道我們整個能源究竟要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
391.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
403.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我再一次請教因為大家都知道全世界現在對於核能他們是接受的那請教部長在你的任內以及賴清德總統的任內那會不會核電來研議呢會不會來解除我們用電的壓力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
409.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
425.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個是我們的選項之一選項之一但我們朝這個方面,我們還有三個基本原則在說第一個就是所有的國人都能夠同意然後這個核廢料的這個處理沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
426.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
453.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第三個它是安全的那我也講過了其實我們大家都在朝這個方面在努力朝這個方向而且是選項之一我們也希望解除用電的壓力我也希望這個可以成真你們好好去評估跟研討那接下來本席要請教台智電引發了工會的不滿也到了立法院來抗議所以本席要請教因為之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
454.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
477.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
中鋼公會抗議呢?它不是沒有道理的為什麼呢?因為中鋼有轉投資失敗的前例也就是興達海基那興達海基在2018年4月份成立之後配合著我們風電的國廠化政策的成立那資本額34億也因為去年我們國廠化的政策改變他們賠了多少?賠了64億 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
481.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
508.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
64億 所以我們統購的方式 風險都在於台積電身上那麼整個開發商他們的風險是又低又賺保所以本席要請教本席要請教 我知道你也有一些看法但是本席首先要請教也就是說如果你還在我們的商業界你是中鋼的董事長 你會投資嗎你會投資嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
511.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
530.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果這公司是我的我一定投資你一定投資你一定投資當然那為什麼工會的抗議會這麼大呢工會是員工嘛員工不一定懂得董事會的決策那這個更糟糕喔一個公司如果沒有員工他就沒有董事會了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
531.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
536.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不是他不知道而且是他被前車之鑑嚇到了34億最後賠了64億員工當然緊張啊我想這是溝通的問題溝通的問題那是不是你們溝通有問題如果他溝通順暢的話那我相信公衛也會支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
552.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
565.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 那你歸咎在他們的抗議是溝通本席希望能夠真正了解他的狀況是如何但是本席就要請問對於整個台積電你的損益跟風險的評估你認為呢我認為是可行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
572.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
586.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你認為是可行所以如果你還在商界你是中鋼的董事長你也會投資但是我們有前車之鑒也就是新達海基人工很緊張沒有什麼一樣的標準就都一樣了對不對他會嚇一跳啊因為你的政策隨時可以轉彎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
592.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
612.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就因為政策的轉彎從34億的資本額竟然去年因為這個政策轉彎而賠了這個64億我們就專家他們評估的這個結果專家評估為什麼他會虧那麼多基本上是學習曲線能力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
613.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
621.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這個更離譜 政府的政策改變學習曲線又不足那當然虧損連連 當然我們員工會很緊張啊所以就是說 其實他要做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
628.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
646.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
剛才講那個風電的部分那個地方水下基礎那個是新的東西新的東西其實坦白講我不知道當初為什麼會請中方做這個事情但是就我現在來看你今天講出這個論點就是我還蠻敬佩你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
650.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
677.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
沒有說政府要我們的公司做什麼我們一定要做學習取信衛族的時候讓我們的員工賠了這麼多錢這是政府對不起中鋼啊對不對我認為應該是中鋼的中鋼的經營者要自己要深刻的所以你現在是部長中鋼的經營者必須要去好好的省思這是部長您現在的因為您也是督導者我們也希望台自電的這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
679.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
706.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以台式電這個我就跟他講嘛你可以推出你可以推出當然可以推出當然可以推出隨時都可以推出好謝謝你要由金油溝通最後一個議題我給你喔也就是光電建制的問題我們一再認為太陽人2025年要20幾個萬但是到目前為止已經在王美樺部長的時候她說跳票了我非常的敬佩她跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
706.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
735.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他承認然後延到2026年但是我們基於這個統計報導2024年你總共才14.22GW你沒有達到還是再度跳票沒有達到17GW而且據報導今年我們的量是有史以來四年以來最低所以本席要請教部長你要怎麼因應原因到底是什麼你的進度還會再跳票嗎是不是會影響本席非常關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
736.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
739.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們的遠大目標2030年我們要達到燃氣五成再生能源三成每兩成因為本席非常的關心每兩成務必一定要這個達到請教因應方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
753.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
773.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們現在一直都在討論這個方案包括行政院也好 包括總統府也好我想這個是國家重大的事情蘇部長你這樣一直討論 然後你就一直跳票啊2026年你17GW還是沒達到啊 14.22啊那今年 今年據報導又是4年來最低的建制啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
774.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
800.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那會不會再跳票 會不會我們為了要防止再度跳票我們會反省過去為什麼造成跳票 是然後來改善 是然後來追上我們應該要有的這個進度 是這個我們目前正在做好 所以您也把你們目前正在做檢討的方案預計的時程請宿命正在給本席 是的我們一起來達到 檢媒謝謝 謝謝委員 |