| IVOD_ID |
158760 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158760 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-08T10:39:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-08T10:55:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/740a0dd0b202cb587f19984b9365c9f0a56fd3a12bc29fbb2e7e046cfb2de4f71eeae6d87bcf22d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林岱樺 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:39:01 - 10:55:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣糖業股份有限公司、台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)
【1月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
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字幕志愿 |
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53.001 |
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62.688 |
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有请郭部长 请郭部长您好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.291 |
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92.429 |
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好 部长这个为何产业的期待却在街头矢口那我们这个中钢工会北上抗疫经济部那这个离岸风电国产化的政策让高雄钢铁及金属加工产业由期待变成伤害开发业者的金钱游戏所包装的绿能力件变成产业的追星之痛关键就在于国产化产业政策的执行的不确实所导致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
93.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.631 |
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好我們來看這個綠電平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.231 |
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124.38 |
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綠電交易平台為何遭到中鋼工會的強烈不滿跟抗議如果今天中鋼公司配合中央人員及產業政策進行投資成立的新達海基投入的離岸風電水下結構政府依照政府自己的承諾務實要求離岸風電的開發業者需符合國產化的比例辦理而且政府沒有重北輕南的產業輔導政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
141.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
的方向新達海基會如此黯然落幕嗎所以在新達海基他其實是在離岸風電的這個產業當中縱北親南之下離岸風電國產化政策欺負南台灣欺負高雄人的最直接證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好所以呢當然這影響到中鋼工會來抗議綠電平台投資案是基於中鋼公司對離岸風電國產化完全失去信心當然你們講得很好啊你要辯解綠電平台你們講得很棒這可以解決大型企業對綠電採購的觀望所導致綠電無法整平賣出 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這也解決了中小企業需求綠電買不起整批綠電或者買不到適量綠電所以這個綠電平台由政府坐東5500億採買無法零售的離岸風電進行化整為零銷售給中小企業這其中的風險就是在於歐盟規定2030年前進入歐盟市場所有的產品都必須符合RE100規範但是綠電平台的前期就有沉沒成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 部長綠電平台如果如你所講它只是一個綠電貿易商一定有利潤你就不一定要讓中鋼集團投入啊中鋼集團已經進不起64億打水漂的星達海基了這一次是5500億啊 部長如果今天真的將你講的那麼有利可圖那你就評估有其他不費的放工股集團來處理可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
剛才在回答前面兩位委員的說法如果中鋼的董事長沒有辦法跟工會充分的溝通那麼讓工會可以屏息掉他們的疑慮我說過了中鋼隨時可以退出這個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
270.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你怎麼會讓中鋼來處理呢你不考量 你自己不考量放工苦集團嗎你為什麼硬壓著中鋼要做這件事情如果有利可圖啊你的財政部下 交通部下交通部下的中華電信啊財政部下的也有啊你為什麼不找其他可以資源比較好的如果像你這麼講的那麼好那我不敢再講說叫台電再叫中油了啦他們已經昆鼠黑鼠連連啦你是不是有點誤會了我剛才在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
中鋼雖然是發起人他也可以退出那你就直接找你直接就找竟然有疑慮啊你就直接找其他發起人中鋼配合就好你為什麼要讓他做主導呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
沒有啊 你為什麼要做主導你就找那個中華電信來啊我其他經濟部的其他辦公股我才直接的其他投入就好你為什麼讓他做發起人所以這個根本就是你們自己已經在國產化政策讓我這個中南部的業者讓新達海基整個信心崩盤嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以可不可以有其他部會的放工股集團來處理直接回應你為什麼一定要押著中鋼來做這件事情我沒有押著中鋼做這件事情剛才你就講啊如果中鋼的董事長不能信服中鋼是你們行政院指派的他就提名於你啊你為什麼自己對於這樣子不知道說這個原解鄰還是蓄鄰人啊你們放任在整個離岸風電國產化當中讓我中南部的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
334.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
343.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這樣的一個受傷慘重然後你要逼著中鋼在已經六十四億打水漂了再投資個五千五百億當然你會說五千五百億我們大家來投資啊六十四億就在那邊欸整個沒有欸這政府這個政策殺人欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
可不可以由其他部會辦公股集團來處理你為什麼要壓著這個中綱來做那可以 如果委員是這麼堅持的話沒有問題好可以 那你就由其他部會的辦公股集團來處理喔那你們就繼續來做就他退出就可以啦我們這個公股平台已經建立了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
370.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他退出就可以啦你這句話越講越矛盾什麼叫做他退出可是你壓著他做的嘛我沒有壓著他做好那你說那你要請誰做既然他抗議的話那你要請誰做都有人可以做來你說竟然都會有立可圖啊你說中油嗎中油總董事長在這邊還是台電你講啊誰會公家機關會說有一個政策沒有有一個政策你不講說哪一個主管機關有一個主管機關會自己跳出來做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我從來沒聽過我從來沒聽過24年的立委七屆的服務了我從來沒聽過不是你們指令下去給中鋼他會做嗎所以你就講啊如果你覺得中鋼人家反彈那麼大那你覺得有誰來啊我這麼多的放光股公司嘛所以你要來評估嘛好多久時間你要評估其他的放光股公司你要多久來評估出其他的放光股公司來做主要的發起人中鋼不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
455.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們到今年的4月其他的公司都會入股了4月4月那主要發起人是誰還是要中鋼嗎來 胡文莊胡市長他已經是存在的一個公司了嘛發起人跟其他我其他加入股份的是不一樣我加18我加0.5%那也是在加跟我加了60%跟我加了49%加51%是不一樣的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
458.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我想委員你所爭議的是中鋼的權益嘛當然啊 對不對你已經64億打水漂了而且是你們中央政策放水耶放水讓北部的業者自己所以我們的離岸風電國產化是假的是反而我們救了誰的國產化救了韓國的鋼鐵業的國產化哪有什麼國內的國產化 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好 我們繼續檢討 所以這個題目你要回答我由其他部會的放工股集團來處理 可以嗎我們就在4月就全部進來了好 OK 來 那我們來檢討還有沒有辦法就國產化綠能發電的本質它有幾個特性綠能都是運用現有的可循環天然資源進行發電第二個 不論風光地熱等綠能天然資源的調查才是關鍵第三 綠能發電它是一個財務工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
536.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
它是道道地地的財務槓桿的遊戲而非高科技的工程離岸風電更甚如此第四個國家公告的開發領選的規則是有鑑別性的選商的是要符合資格才可以進來的而第五個歐盟向WTO申訴的行為本質是商業競爭行為這個是我對於郭部長您上來你沒有馬上認知到歐盟向WTO申訴這是一個商業競爭行為好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
558.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那沒關係本席可以理解國家重視WTO的考量不限制離岸風電第三階段第三期3-3國產化的要求我只能理解我不能接受但是3.3期之前的國產化規定國家應該寸步不讓好等一下我把這幾個規定講清楚那部長你來回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
針對三之一 三之二的國產化 您是不是還會堅持我就從這邊的 這個是你們的遴選規定 這都是你們的規定出來的為扶持國內產業與關鍵能源的政策 因此制定了遴選規則明訂需達到申請容量60%的國產化單一風場的500MW的規模則水下基礎需要20座的需要國產化的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
585.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
605.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 再來有這個零選規定還有第二個特色分店場的開發業者與投標前需提供國廠化的供應商的名單及零選規則且明擺著即使我要更換優先順序的廠商也僅限於選商報告內所載的供應商 即使我要換 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
607.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我也必須在這個給你們的報告商中的廠商去換他是有鑑別性的符合條件的好那國家離岸風電水下結構產業狀況我就要為我大高雄南台灣講話九大工項 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
623.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
635.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
24家的業者都在高屏區只有一家在台中 台塑重工在雲林其他都在高雄屏東能夠百分百的執行離岸風電水下結構所以國產化的技術團隊是沒問題的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
666.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那你人員需求綁架的政府的公權力嗎高雄的金屬加工及扣件業者現在中央產業發展政策投入巨額的資金每一家動輒都失業這是中小企業至今卻顆粒未收遭到開發商各種理由啊說我們不適合規範排除啦極短的交期啊本來四五個月應該要完成就要求國內者要六到九月這樣就說我們國內無產製這都是政府沒有去挺業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
666.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這樣進而就讓開發商來規避國產化的要求所以當初經濟部說要組成離岸風電國家隊進軍東亞風電市場如今高雄的業者卻是哀鴻遍野 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
682.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
692.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這是道道地地的政策殺人莫勝於此所以我對於你說你要3.3啊這個放棄國產化我真的是大步以為然那整個我中南部整個都是真的不知道怎麼講了投資的數十億的設備就方位在那邊然後整個的大的碼頭中鋼不做民間來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
700.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
723.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就是真的積極的在找訂單好 但是不破網禮安風電第三階段的第一期跟第二期的國產化政策會不會務實執行維持60%的國產化比例部長請回答政府的立場就是我們凡是答應的事情就是會做到所以三之一 三之二國產化政策會務實執行60%的國產化比例嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
728.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
756.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們當然是 這個是以前的規定就必須要遵守好 31 32 還是維持百分之六十的國產化是嗎 第三遍再問一次我已經回答過了所以是是還不是請你直接把這句話完整去 這句話太重要了請你如果同意附送一次經濟部支持李岸峰第三階段第一期第二期國產化政策維持百分之六十的國產 講一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
759.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
761.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我這邊是為我中南部的業者發聲啊你一上來就是屈服於 怯懦於整個一個國際遊戲規則所有的開發商集結起來要欺負我台灣欺負我台灣的國產化 你竟然接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
776.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
802.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 那至少3G323G32我一路了解我國產化的政策你不可能比本席更了解整個的業者這多少家24家都在高頻欸整個就是機械錢是數十億的機械錢 學看錢欸講過了 你剛才在講的所以請你附送一遍部長 附送一遍我一定要得到你這句話否則我就不下台我今天就不離開這個主席台 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
806.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
816.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
妳知道妳多可惡嗎妳知道妳的3.3期的說這個屈服於這種國際的遊戲競爭來欺壓國內的國產化業者妳就冒然的說妳要放開3.3的這個國產化那我說要24家的業者真的是血本無歸啊所以妳今天是這麼的不知道明妳拿到要在WTO裡面留下說中華民國被WTO告的這個結論嗎所以妳要因應啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
833.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
844.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那是因為你沒有方法你要因應啊至少回歸我講過了 我剛才講過三之一 三之二我們的條件沒有改啊什麼條件國產化條件是什麼你剛才講的什麼條件啊你什麼條件講啊你講就是國產化多少條件你不知道嗎你做一個不知道國產化的比例是多少嗎講剛才講了60%嘛好 OK繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
856.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
875.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好繼續 另外不好意思主席不好意思主席讓我再把這句話因為實在是太可惡了好既然這樣第二個喜慕立信始於落實離岸封建的第三期的第三階段的第一期精靈選合發的開發業者如右表這些這五個風場全部是你合併的三之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
876.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
887.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
其中海勝風場的由豐瑞開發它是由台電中油也投資將近股權到40%的股權按照規定投標的這個規範及計畫書的承諾務實執行國產化的政策60%中油的董事長也在經濟部長您剛才講說要60%那個中油董事長你來承諾吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
902.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
908.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
時間到了不好意思這個你一定要講清楚因為這是有關我國產化請你簡短能不能維持60%的這個國產化的要求你不要告訴我你不涉入這個經營權你已經40%的股份了你已經可以只派董監事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
931.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
956.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
你已經有董經事在裡面,你跟我講說你不涉入經營的一個建議甚至你的主張,這我是不能接受的你是在騙外人,你不要騙人家大話是,委員好,那個海勝風場中央公司佔15%的股權我們有派一席董事,那麼在國產化的這個規定上我們會指示我們的指派的董事呢,在這個合資公司裡面做監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
958.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
970.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以呢 會不會維持主張60%的國產化就依照國家的政策來辦理對 而且是你們的計畫書喔我沒有額外你們的計畫書就要這樣承諾要求好 謝謝 以上好 謝謝 |