| IVOD_ID |
158753 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158753 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-08T10:23:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-08T10:30:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/740a0dd0b202cb586b05d5593b3cf306a56fd3a12bc29fbb2e7e046cfb2de4f7896b02f461641f995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:13 - 10:30:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣糖業股份有限公司、台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)
【1月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席 各位委員有請台糖公司 請吳董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.115 |
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57.367 |
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董事長好也請那個業務部門來協助這個就是談這個台糖公司在接收日記時代接收日記時期自糖株式會社的土地日本統治台灣的時候成立了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
62.108 |
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89.545 |
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治堂諸市會社然後他們敗戰之後離開了這個台灣沒有把土地帶回去當時的行政院在南京呢當時的行政院就接收成立了台堂公司接收這個日本諸市會社的土地而這些土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
90.819 |
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110.48 |
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有很多很多是原住民的土地你們接受之後按照你們的資料那個備註下面就寫得很清楚接收接收然後35年5月1號作為一個開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
115.294 |
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139.743 |
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出租給我們鄉親然後開始收租金我們過去在台南省政府服務為了原住民真化編原住民保留地就開始辦理的時候遇到台糖公司的土地就必須要由政府來架構去買 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.037 |
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170.435 |
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因為它不是公有土地如果依轉型正義的原則其實是應該直接就還給原住民才對因為並不是你們買的當初並不是你們台商公司本來自己的土地但是我們當初都是用這個方式所以在民國95年我那時候在中央演民會擔任副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
171.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
199.665 |
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立法委員我的前輩質詢之後我們就開始進行那這一次就是112年我們來看一下112年經過質詢多次之後這個行政院核定第二次架構台塘土地112年7月27號這個行政院原則同意人民會所報的這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
201.616 |
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211.621 |
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然後並照國家發展委員會審議意見來辦理這個寫得很清楚好我們看這個國發會剛才寫的國發會的一個函 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
218.478 |
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235.402 |
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意見 審議的意見這裡面有提到這個土地當時所 人民會所報的土地面積一點多公頃不多41筆那我現在請業務單位目前這個進度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.168 |
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256.101 |
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跟委員報告那這行政院合訂的這1.44公頃我們已經提報董事會已經同意依照行政院還有國會這個指示的原則來辦理那我們後續已經也跟原民會這邊簽訂這個土地買賣契約書然後接下來就會買賣契約書完成了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
261.038 |
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290.618 |
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完成了沒12月中旬12月中旬已經完成了那我們董事會是11月份的時候董事會通過以上報告為好謝謝那個資料啊第一個就是說總共比數還有面積啊這第一個哈在素素面素面補充資料第二個金額是多少金額是多少請問一下業務單位啊原則上就是以41比那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
293.313 |
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317.35 |
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這作為那個比數跟面積嗎57比57比有增加總共1.44公頃好好我們接下來要談的是什麼呢我們看國發會的說明2的瓜福2的下面我畫紅線的我念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.834 |
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343.023 |
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依據公有土地增化邊原住民保有地審查作業規範的規定77年2月1號以前原住民即使用祖先遺留下來的這些土地這個也要繼續辦理這是國發會當初報給行政院所以這個部分我們接下來接下來因為之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
344.98 |
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370.114 |
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之前辦的主要是以民國35年5月1號之前簽約的部分那事實上這個因為那時候是考慮到經費各方面的因素所以要分期來辦理國發會當初的意見是這樣所以才會有這個國發會說明二的瓜福二的後段這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
372.463 |
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388.294 |
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現在就是要請台塘公司再去盤點除了之前已經合訂 已經合訂了之外然後你們也簽約了現在簽約還沒有移轉嗎還沒有 正在辦正在辦移轉的手續那後續要繼續辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
397.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
419.199 |
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後續要按照行政院核定依國發會的意見來辦理所以後續的部分要繼續辦理而資料就是在你們手上誰曾租了這些土地上次我已經告訴這個台糖公司的這個承辦單位花蓮 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
420.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
438.459 |
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台東的這邊的承辦單位怎麼去知道這些土地他們已經知道了 方法上都有了所以要後續來辦理所以你們部分主動要提供這個相關的盤點這些資料 可以嗎好我們因為時間的關係我們就先到這邊 謝謝 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2025-01-08T10:23:13+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2025-01-08T10:23:29.553000+08:00 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時23分）主席、各位委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.286 |
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2025-01-08T10:23:29.553000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2025-01-08T10:23:31.114000+08:00 |
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有請台糖公司董事長。 |
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0.556 |
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主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2025-01-08T10:23:32.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
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2025-01-08T10:23:32.294000+08:00 |
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請吳董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
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2025-01-08T10:23:32.294000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2025-01-08T10:23:38.645000+08:00 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：董事長好。 |
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0.235 |
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吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2025-01-08T10:23:38.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2025-01-08T10:23:44.996000+08:00 |
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委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2025-01-08T10:23:44.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2025-01-08T10:23:48.497000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也請業務部門來協助。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.409 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2025-01-08T10:23:53.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2025-01-08T10:25:13.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
談到台糖公司在接收日據時期製糖株式會社的土地，日本統治臺灣的時候，成立了製糖株式會社，他們敗戰之後，離開了臺灣，沒有把土地帶回去，當時的行政院在南京，當時的行政院成立了台糖公司，接收了日本株式會社的土地，而這些土地有很多、很多是原住民的土地，你們接收了之後，按照你們的資料，備註下面就寫得很清楚是「接收」，然後35年5月1日開始出租給我們鄉親，然後開始收租金。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.892 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2025-01-08T10:25:17.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2025-01-08T10:25:56.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
我過去在臺灣省政府服務，為了原住民增劃編原住民保留地，開始辦理的時候，遇到台糖公司的土地就必須要由政府價購去買，因為它不是公有土地，如果依轉型正義的原則，其實是應該直接就還給原住民才對，因為並不是你們買的，當初並不是你們台糖公司自己的土地，但是我們當初都是用這個方式。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2025-01-08T10:25:58.211000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2025-01-08T10:26:08.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
所以大概民國95年，我那時候在中央原民會擔任副主委，在立法委員，也就是我的前輩質詢之後就開始進行。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.837 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2025-01-08T10:26:09.648000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2025-01-08T10:26:40.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
這一次就是112年，我們來看一下，112年經過我質詢多次之後，行政院核定第2次價購台糖土地，112年7月27日行政院原則同意原民會所報的這個計畫，並照國家發展委員會審議意見來辦理，這個寫得很清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.91 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2025-01-08T10:26:42.920000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:04.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我們看國發會的函文，看他們審議的意見，這裡面有提到土地，當時原民會所報的土地面積一點多公頃，不多，有41筆。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:05.041000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:08.402000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我現在請問業務單位，目前進度怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
陳總經理立人 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:13.168000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:28.481000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
跟委員報告，行政院核定的1.44公頃，我們已經提報董事會，已經同意依照行政院還有國發會指示的原則來辦理，我們後續也已經跟原民會這邊簽訂土地買賣契約書，接下來就會辦理土地移轉。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:28.481000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:29.101000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：買賣契約書完成了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.409 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:37.440000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:43.584000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
12月中旬已經完成，我們董事會是11月份的時候，董事會通過，以上報告委員，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:44.245000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:53.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，資料第一個就是總共筆數還有面積，這是第一個，再書面補充資料。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.548 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:53.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2025-01-08T10:27:57.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：第二個，金額是多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.381 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2025-01-08T10:27:59.655000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2025-01-08T10:28:10.876000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
請問一下業務單位，原則上就是以41筆做為筆數跟面積嗎？57筆。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2025-01-08T10:28:10.876000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2025-01-08T10:28:13.778000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：57筆，有增加？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.176 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2025-01-08T10:28:13.778000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2025-01-08T10:28:15.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
總共1.44公頃。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2025-01-08T10:28:15.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2025-01-08T10:28:17.661000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.071 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2025-01-08T10:28:17.661000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2025-01-08T10:28:20.022000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
我們接下來要談的是什麼呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2025-01-08T10:28:20.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2025-01-08T10:29:39.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我們看國發會說明二的(二)下面，我畫紅線的部分，我唸一下，依據公有土地增劃編原住民保留地審查作業規範規定，77年2月1日以前原住民即使用祖先遺留下來的這些土地，這也要繼續辦理，這是國發會當初報給行政院，所以這個部分，我們接下來要做的，因為之前辦的主要是以民國35年5月1日之前簽約的部分，事實上因為那時候是考慮到經費各方面的因素，所以要分期來辦理，國發會當初的意見是這樣，才會有國發會說明二的(二)後段這樣的資料，現在就是要請台糖公司再去盤點，除了之前行政院已經核定的之外，然後你們也簽約了，現在簽約還沒有還沒有移轉嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2025-01-08T10:29:39.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2025-01-08T10:29:40.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
還沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2025-01-08T10:29:40.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2025-01-08T10:29:41.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：正在辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.188 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2025-01-08T10:29:41.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2025-01-08T10:29:42.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
正在辦。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2025-01-08T10:29:40.354000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2025-01-08T10:29:40.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：正在辦移轉的手續。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.381 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2025-01-08T10:29:41.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2025-01-08T10:29:58.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
後續要繼續辦理，後續要按照行政院核定，依國發會的意見來辦理，所以後續的部分要繼續辦理。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2025-01-08T10:29:58.812000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2025-01-08T10:30:30.318000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
而資料就是在你們手上，誰承租了這些土地，上次我已經告訴台糖公司的承辦單位，花蓮、臺東這邊的承辦單位怎麼去知道這些土地，他們已經知道了，方法上都有了，後續要來辦理，所以你們要主動提供相關的盤點資料，可以嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2025-01-08T10:30:30.318000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2025-01-08T10:30:31.318000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
好，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.2 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2025-01-08T10:30:30.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2025-01-08T10:30:31.459000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為時間的關係，我們就先到這邊，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.552 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
吳董事長明昌 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2025-01-08T10:30:31.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2025-01-08T10:30:33.673286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
謝謝，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2025-01-08T10:30:33.973286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2025-01-08T10:30:36.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
請謝衣鳯委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0 |