| IVOD_ID |
158653 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158653 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-02T12:38:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-02T12:57:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/186d177ad48e30e5afe851746dd2e5e4c921d2cbf1168e406a11e77586d9faf3c77db01c455e67005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:38:28 - 12:57:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：請勞動部、衛生福利部、教育部就「推動友善職場、校園性騷擾與霸凌防治及長照悲歌並檢討現行長照制度缺失與長照3.0規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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肚子餓的可以拿便當來吃啦可以用餐啦可以用餐啦因為我針對就只有那幾個而已嘛其他人不需要壓力來第一位就洪部長有請謝謝部長2024最後一天立法院三途通過就業扶法第46條然後80歲以上就免80量表就可以聘僱這個外籍移工我們怎麼應應怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.596 |
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53.792 |
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我們會來跟衛福部一起來研商第一個我覺得最優先的事情怎麼來盡力的幫助重症的家庭然後要降低衝擊或怎麼讓他們聘僱的權利可以再更優先不要被搶攻的狀況之下反而逆向選擇的被犧牲所以你提到就是有搶攻的這樣的一個衝擊對不對然後可能會衝擊到更弱勢的然後可能他的身體的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.963 |
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83.95 |
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更加的嚴峻的需要有人專責照顧的情況之下這樣的一個情勢好像已經無法避免了我們非常非常擔心所以當時在修法前中華民國家庭照顧者官外總會還有包含這些身陷障礙者聯盟臺灣社會福利總盟都提出擔憂這樣讓完修法恐怕引起陳農部長所講的搶工潮然後都主張應該有相關配套所以這個配套要多久才可以做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.781 |
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99.553 |
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不只這樣 我再講下去還有台灣的國際勞工協會桃園市家庭康復工職業工會及婦女薪資協會等團體他們都認為在沒有配套的情況下茂蘭修瓦只會惡化對於移工人權的侵害 |
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101.002 |
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113.312 |
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這是為什麼我們其實在修法前一直很嚴肅的希望立法院可以在這個在這個事情上面多做一些專業的研議因為剛剛六委員講的其實這都是這方面的專業的組織專業的機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.933 |
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131.643 |
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那天希望說我還是有上台去在大體討論還有包含那個條文的花園我都有講啦我也希望說希望提案的委員還有包含支持這個80歲以上名巴是兩表的各位同仁都可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
132.383 |
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156.583 |
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細心的在慎重去思考一下這樣的衝擊台灣是一個講人權的國家當每年的這樣的需求已經供不應求的情況之下然後這樣造成這麼大的衝擊政府有沒有辦法第一個時間去做相關的因應反而不是現在在指責說這法通過之後你政府就必須要去承擔起來就馬上去做處理但是現在沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.284 |
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183.192 |
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牧羽成舟嘛那牧羽成舟的時候可能你們要用最快的速度來看要怎麼去做這樣因應嘛那我這邊提了幾個部分啦齁剛剛部長所講的搶工潮那移工到底會不會大量的轉移到健康的群組然後這個重度的重度伸張的弱勢群組的權利你們要如何去做保障這是第一件嘛齁然後再來國際上日本的日本的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.068 |
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209.646 |
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薪資大約從4萬起跳了韓國是3萬多嘛韓國業其實也應該是超過4萬超過4萬那我們今年基本工資28590不到3萬但是我們的家庭開戶公司不是用基本工資的所以他是在目前平均大概2萬2對啊就比這個更低啦即便用基本工資我們還是跟不上日本跟韓國我是用這樣的比喻嘛對不對好那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.543 |
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230.495 |
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我們如何招募到有意願來到台灣的這個工作的移工我們當然會跟外交部那一起來跟來源母國來協商有沒有可能可以增加供給可是這個增加供給的部分確實涉及到來源母國本身的量能尤其是他的訓練量能因為每一個要來到台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
家庭看護工都要經過來源母國的訓練所以如果來源母國他的量呢沒辦法增加的話你硬要他把他的這個供給到台灣的量大幅增加的話他其實也會影響到他自己訓練的品質甚至如果訓練品質下降的話也會影響到他來台灣的時候照顧我們這些需要照顧家庭的照顧品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我知道現在已經沒辦法了我記得一年我們可以這幾年我們講五年就好了這幾年平均就台灣有提出這個外籍看護工的需求差不多是多少然後我們可以引進多少進來我們目前每年競爭價大概是一萬二一萬三 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.86 |
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292.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個是可以供給的啦增加的一萬二、一萬三其實跟委員說明其實現在當然就已經存在需求是大於可供給增加的數就已經呈現這個狀況落差多少嗎這個實質的數字就是一年大致上有多少人提出要這個外企康復工的這樣的一個數額應該你們都統計有掌握才對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
向委員報告那個每年新聘沒有來過台灣的加減鋼工一年大概有5萬那所以再加上淨增加至少要再增加1萬所以加起來至少要有6萬每年要新移進那因為新法通過之後這個數字還要再往上再疊加對要再加多少你們評估起來要加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟各位說明現在我們大概在評估的方法是這樣因為我們如果以這些失能的失能的長者的狀況來看的話大概三成是用家庭看護工兩成是用長照加起來大概五成 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以如果我們這樣去評估的話我們認為這些可能相對健康的長者他可能的需求可能是在兩成到三成之間所以算起來變成是53萬人因為這一次的修法後等於會馬上開放53萬人53萬健康的長者有資格可以申請所以我們才會推估說那大概兩成到三成 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
361.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
的需求可能會兩成到三成就十來萬到十六萬左右對 十來萬到十六萬那你原本就已經供不應求了你現在又多增加這樣十幾萬的需求那就是會搶供嘛對 所以就是我們現在擔心我們現在擔心的事情就是原本就已經緊繃而且本來就有一些重症的家庭他現在要找就難度就比較大或有點困擾了但在這個修法之後這個現象又會再更加劇對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
410.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對,那移工也會不會,他原本在這邊已經兩三年在顧好他應顧的這個僱主的情況之下,但是因為他顧的可能就,就是負了長照的這樣一個需求者,長期身體心理自己沒辦法治理的,簡單講啦,然後他看到有牙健康有健康的,他能不能馬上去總管僱主? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
基本上當然他會有些可能會要求轉換但是這個當然涉及到其實契約的部分所以這是為什麼我們說其實對這重症的家庭來說可能更不容易留住契約契約就可以保障他不去轉換僱主嗎他會不會有一些事情就有一些衝突就有一些怎麼樣的一個情況他去掌握的情況他就要求轉換僱主那你又不得不讓他轉換這樣的事情你們評估過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這有在我們的擔憂裡面我的時間有限啦部長我這邊有三個衝擊的評估報告我希望你們可能要很快的速度來做出來然後提交給委員會來做參考好不好123剛剛都特別提到了我到現在會長這個樣子請部長一個星期可不可以這個也不能拖我們會很快來做可是一個星期真的很太短兩個星期 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
495.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可不可以給我們一個月你的速度應該是兩個星期就OK了再加一個星期給你好不好可不可以給我們一個月好了一個月好請回好謝謝你要趕快應應了好不好我們其實會非常審慎的盡速來應應可是因為這涉及到跨部會對不起好請回來下一步我們有吳司長還有人事處的陳專委還有國簽署的薛專委請問這個司長今天有看過這個讓我們招委排這個主題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有嘛你知道這一波的公部門霸凌案除了勞動部勞化署第二部門就是你們海洋國立海洋生物博物館對不對國際博物館好那我真的看你們報告看不出你們友善職場是在什麼地方我請教一下市長知道什麼叫員工協助方案嗎知道知道嗎對那你們怎麼編你清楚吧你說預算嗎對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
524.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
544.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
預算你們人事處應該要非常清楚所以你們把人事處的陳專委找的是正確的這邊回覆委員因為我們那個就是有關員工學術方案我們教育部本身是都每年都有編列相關的預算那預算差不多就是那個都大概落在40到50萬中間是不是這樣你看一下這個明細表是不是這樣教育部50體育署14清華署4國家圖書館3國家教育研究院21萬對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
553.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我就不再贅述了嘛 是不是這樣你們這一部所屬的相關的單位就是這麼編嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
585.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所屬單位的部分這邊我比較沒有辦法直接做確認那不過就是說因為基本上來講所謂那個就是有關員工協助方案的那個經費就是來自於就是說一方面就是編列相關的運算一方面就是在現有的運算裡面去做運資跟調配那這邊先跟委員做個說明謝謝好所以你沒把我掌握嘛那我就提醒市長跟你做參考你們花生霸凌的那個單位就是沒有編 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
587.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你們不只那個單位叫國立海洋生物博物館沒有編你們還有一大堆都沒有編國簽署國立自然科學博物館國立科學工藝博物館國立台灣圖書館還十幾個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
已經發生這樣的事情的你們在114年度的預算裡面竟然沒有呈現出來我兩年前從總統府到五院還有各部會我都特別要求如果你們員工協助方案沒有辦法編出來很抱歉在總預算最後協商過程裡面我會針對各個機關我會要求院長來做看怎麼處置我絕對不會不能夠去理解說教育部到現在還不曉得這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
650.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我沒有辦法理解這邊跟委員做個說明就是說因為相關的預算就是說基本上來講確實就是說因為是由各單位來編列然後陳如委員所看到的就是說他們應該是說有關員工學術方案有些是有那個編列專款來運用有些是用自己單位內的業務費來使用倒不是說是沒有那如果說這些相關的資料所以你們還是在還是在兩年前三年前的那種模式有編就好不一定要呈現這個科目出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
657.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
666.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以藏在什麼地方,放在什麼地方,有編就好嘛,對不對?你問衛護部跟勞動部,看他們敢不敢這樣編嘛,你自己問看嘛你自己問看嘛,你問司範醫,你去問行政醫,你去問立法院醫看這樣編嗎?每逢你告就報這樣編就對了,最好就教育示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
679.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你今天在報告專懷針對教師法33條均與建立教師諮商輔導支持體系大家針對教師啦專論的啦代理的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
公立幼兒園教保人員學校校長滿足教師抒壓減壓等等提升這個學生受教的品質那國教署的同仁呢國教署不用編其他的這個管中心國家運動科學中心不用編藝術台灣藝術教育館不用編然後放在散落到其他的科目裡面我們怎麼去檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
712.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
727.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們怎麼知道你對你的同仁一個人可以動用幾次然後每一個同仁到底是多少的一個額度可以去做員工協助方案你跟我講啊你叫我怎麼看因為時間的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
733.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
760.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你可能沒辦法回答我嘛市長你是不是要帶回去跟部長講一下這事情在遇上協商的時候我絕對會處理我一定我一定會出席好不好那我這邊特別拜託召委了教育部這個報告可能要重寫吧一周內重新提交好謝謝請回最後一個請邱部長部長元旦第一天據媒體報導去年醫學中心疲倦的結果呼之欲出衛部預計近期公告這個報導確實吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
791.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
沒有錯吧已經在跑程序了已經在跑程序所以即將公告了對不對好但是每次提到醫學中心我本期都感到非常的難過如果依照這個分區的業務劃分部長可以看嘛這六區台北區最多的嘛13這個整體加起來其他五區加起來都還沒有台北區的大萬一台灣發生了重要狀況的時候是在北部可能醫學中心台北區的醫學中心都動彈不得的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
808.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
重症及重症人要怎麼處置這是一個資源分配的不當的情況史然然後我的母鄉雲林被劃在藍區那藍區兩個都在台南縣市然後對雲家家而言實在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
810.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那種趕扣應該因為部長曾經到台大雲乳豐厭那個整個是基礎算是你打下來的你要非常清楚整個車程、軸距、黃金治療、救援時間基本上我們都要比人家長所以我們那個另外一面叫做黃金治療、搶救時間我們就不叫黃金了,我們叫白銀了所以要怎麼處理要怎麼處理讓像陳如所講的均衡嘛資源要均衡嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
840.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
868.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個資源均衡的情況之下有沒有思考到我們台大雲林分院我們是兩個分院一個斗六一個湖北然後未來在已經有合定111億的機會給台大湖北分院來擴建現在是因為這個這個財政收支換物只管收不管吃會不會有相關的排擠會不會有所謂的延後那不管如何我們還是尊舉到努力一定在時間內要到位啊要讓它可以如期發包嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
869.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
871.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那雲林有沒有這個機會 台大雲林分院 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
873.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
901.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我想非常感謝劉委員過去對雲林的醫療資源真的是用盡了苦心特別在台大雲林分院帶領之下所有的院所其實都增加了很多的醫療資源台大雲林分院兩個從德六園區到湖北園區尤其是不管是在燙傷的加護病房也是劉委員爭取的那這個醫療大樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
902.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
924.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
也是爭取的,而且他旁邊還有一個高齡醫學國家市高齡醫學濟健康物質研究中心這個也是,這真的是謝謝部長的肯定的額外這些整個來講,他的還有裡面的宿主,台大以前台大附近比較早期的確是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
926.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
955.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
人力比較不足 現在的人力各方面都非常的充值所以真的是可以擔當 引領的一個非常醫療的守護神謝謝部長 感動了部長你可以看這個表格 你看完之後我不曉得你會不會再感動全台醫學中心的分部一個台北區一個台北區的總統等於五區加起來都不及一個台北區因為過去的這種資源的分配已經出了很嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
956.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
966.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
真的有勞你要當部長的時候可以快速的改善這樣的一個資源分配的不公平嘛台北區是13 其他五區加起來是12這是很奇怪的分佈就對了我也不知道以前的部長到底為什麼做到這麼不讓人感動所以拜託國務隊你做來讓人感動一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
978.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
999.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個是長久以來一直在台北區一直大掩蓋然後早期就一直通過醫學中心所以變成這樣子我們當然要顧及到其他醫學中心比較少的地方他們人民的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1001.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1020.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
需求跟希望還有就是他們的服務員遼闊如果以原來的兩百萬一家的話其實當然這裡是也超過的早就超過了 早就超過了人口比例也都不應該是如此是不是說我們應該整體性來考量 當然我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1022.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1047.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
醫院的評鑑制度的一個改革小組也是明年會開始來啟動但是醫學中心是四年評估一次評鑑一次立委也是四年選一次總統也是四年選一次但是沒有每一次都能夠選得上也不一定都一定可以連任所以我特別拜託部長我們沒有這麼多四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1048.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1076.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
是不是就趁這一次這個藍區的雲林嘉義縣是雲嘉嘉這三個縣市都沒有的到現在都沒有連一個準醫學中心都沒有所以賴總統講的均衡台灣拜託這一次我們就把它實際上應用吧讓醫學中心可以在藍區裡面讓這三個縣市有一所醫學中心我想我這樣要求不為過 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1079.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1086.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
因為醫解中心去年增加兩家那監察院又一截 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1088.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1111.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
他對那個地方在增加 監察院有意見我們要鼓掌說肯定監察院啊但是對這個地方對藍區這個地方增加我想監察院不至於有什麼意見吧因為我們等太久了我們等了四年四年四年已經等了N年以上了嘛N次以上了拜託部長好不好謝謝部長努力啦 支持七月份的時候你有下去全台大的很多的朋友對你 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1112.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1125.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
抱著非常高的期待我也一樣 全雲林人 嘉義縣人 嘉義市人你也是自己人 拜託謝謝希望做出雲家家 你的故鄉的人有更多更大的感動謝謝部長 感動部長 部長感動謝謝 |