| IVOD_ID |
158524 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158524 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-30T12:34:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-30T12:43:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/358c3f0dd56dd1e09a4fe0b955bfaaaf4f10c035d50fc6485ada2b19569a09cc77c192756c22988b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:34:13 - 12:43:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院龔秘書長明鑫、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲就「行政院表示：因財劃法修正，114年度總預算須重編」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
3.338 |
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19.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好,謝謝主席,我們等一下投影片今天這個大家都要做一下投影片是這個嗎?哪一支?喔好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
行政院...今天是常務副秘書長喔?那只好請常務副秘書長。你們秘書長去哪裡啦?去內政。他說他去內政。去內政?沒有啊。他跟我請...經濟喔?去經濟喔?好吧。他上次內政也沒來啦。這我們後面再說啦。但你今天來了你就代表他啦,可以吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
46.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
12月24日的新聞立法院通過財政收支 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
75.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
畫本法條文這個發言人李惠芝表示這個修法沒有定生效日期所以馬上要生效預算可能要重新編列順著這樣子的一個說法各個部會就如同這個本席這個投影片上所展示的經濟部說砍300億這個國科會說砍200億 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
96.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
還有一大堆的新聞,有些沒做圖卡的有很多新聞,800億,農業部、交通部、金管會、教育部、文化部、勞動部,通通都用28%這個標準來做射算。這個,副秘書長,這個是行政院下的令嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
97.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
120.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
要各部會用28%通算並且做統一的媒體發布有沒有下這樣的命令應該是沒有但是有或沒有沒有應該是沒有有還是沒有我的認知應該是沒有我不要你的認知有或沒有嘛你不知道我剛剛講說你剛才說你可以代表秘書長現在又應該沒有和你的認知裡沒有到底有沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
122.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
139.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我所接收到的訊息是沒有你很厲害你可以換三次你所接收到的訊息是沒有那以你的專業跟你的經驗你可不可以判斷一下為什麼在沒有這樣子的命令情況之下為什麼大家默契這麼好都萬箭齊發發生什麼事了因為這一次的財劃法修正幅度相當大 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
141.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
156.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
總金額是3753億少了那少了完了以後就是各部會的當然這個本席並不反對就是說財劃法的修正必然伴隨著叫做事權的檢討這本來就是大家都清楚的事也沒有人會反對大家花一點時間去溝通輕重緩急排一排去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
157.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
176.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這是一定會發生的事情但是你如果只是講說我說我現在中央要擠出3000多億的預算對不對我做的調整大概有幾種方式如果我只是純尊潔對不對我們先不講明明就會超徵這個後面再說但是你純尊潔你也不是有一種方法確實如同這些媒體新聞跟你發言人講的就是大家通通砍掉28% |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
179.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
199.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是一種方式那另外一種方式是你通盤檢討你各個部會的業務之後有一些金額大的但是不一定有優先性我可以多砍一點有一些金額比較小的有必要性的該持續要持續好比說國防或什麼他不能動的也是這樣但是你總要有一套完整而清楚的方案有一個完全客觀的討論依據你再來做新聞發布才是正確的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
202.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
212.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個部分目前主計長這邊正在處理所以行政院的立場基本上還在做檢討跟整理的狀態是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
215.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
232.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為主席長的報告就是寫這樣子的啊主席長的報告是寫這樣嗎?所以從你的認知就你的了解應該就是還在做整理嘛對不對?對好那既然還在做整理的事情為什麼你們可以放任這樣子的圖卡到處流傳?你行政院作為這些部會的頂頭上司你難道沒有約束跟監管的責任嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
233.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
247.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為他們各部會受到的衝擊他必須要表達出來啊各部會受到的衝擊要表達出來這是一個政治上的一個動作啊所以我剛剛第一個問題我問的是這個動作是你的授意嗎還是各部會自行歧視變成通通變自走炮 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
248.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
272.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
先喊出來可能以後不會被砍是這樣嗎應該不是應該是表達他自己被受衝擊的程度啊你今天問題就只有兩個一個是你今天如果是中央授意那我們今天要檢討追究的就是為什麼你在版本方案都還沒有出來之前就可以進行授意進行這樣的處理那你剛剛講說行政院沒有授意各個部會自行歧視啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
273.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
286.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那關鍵就來啦如果這個是各個部會的各別部會的各別作為你行政院作為領導統一的時候你放任這樣的狀況出現不是很奇怪嗎明明大家都很清楚到底哪些東西要遵截順序是什麼額度是什麼都還沒有確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
287.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
311.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那你行政院作為領導的機關你就放任他們這樣子多頭馬車各行其實這樣是對的嗎有沒有應該檢討改進之處因為那一天23號的記者會的時候財政部長跟主計長已經跟大家報告過了這裡面會受到的衝擊緊接著下一個層級的話就是各部會他自己面臨的衝擊他必須要表達出來所以你基本上就是放任各個部會各自表述就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
312.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
320.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你覺得這樣子的資訊到處流傳會有什麼負面的影響?到最後如果出來的版本跟他們不一樣請問誰負責?這是不是就變成所謂的謠言跟假消息? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
322.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
349.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
會不會變這樣應該會吧應該不會吧應該不會吧應該不會所以你的意思是行政院現在就是通令大家就是刪28%是嗎因為他的事實因為你的版本都是刪28%財務法經濟部就是他可以支配這個扣掉這些所謂人員你們剛剛都算過很清楚啦得28%就是300億嘛國科會就是200億這些等等他就是這樣算的啊我跟你講你今天如果這個東西已經是確定的我們現在正在進行預算審查我剛剛在內政委員會我問科委會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
350.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
367.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
370.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
385.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我必須這樣跟委員報告啦那主計長剛剛講的那個報告裡面講的內容就是我們預算審查的時候分成四個區塊那有一個區塊是不能動的你不要再跟我講公式我們都很清楚我現在只問你是不是全部通令要刪28%是或不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
387.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
417.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那因為依照3000億裡面的時候你必須要減少3700多億你算出來的結論就是每個部會要28%嘛是或不是嘛你現在是不是要求大家都減28%嘛如果等比例刪減的話就是要38%那你現在要不要等比例刪減啊我現在問你是這個問題啊因為你的對外的訊息是你要等比例刪減可是你在這裡答詢的時候你有講不用等比例刪減那到底是要還是不要你這個政府機關在不同的場合講不一樣的話然後政令左搖右擺不是一件好事欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
417.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
441.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為財劃法修正的影響是3753億那這些確定是要從支柱裡面去處理的確定要從支柱裡面處理不一定吧你如果真的我們剛剛有講到超增對不對如果真的有所謂的超增你辦追加預算是不是大家通通都問題都解決了財政部的報告很明顯的告訴我們前面十幾年裡面六年超增了有七年是短增了啊它不是每年都超增啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
442.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
469.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們現在就討論114年就好對不對你需要一點時間來做我只講這是其中的一種方式我們剛剛問你你說如果要用全部尊潔你現在的方案跟版本也沒出來但是到處奇怪的消息到處流竄你本來就有管理不善的責任這我希望行政院趕快把話講清楚既然你今天講大家希望還是要以支持114年總預算為原則這我們立法院我們也覺得通情達理我們也願意尊重大家就好好來做處理但是請問你要用什麼樣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
470.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
481.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
去避免這樣亂七八糟的謠言繼續產生你有沒有一個明確的做法因為我覺得各部會的時候他受到衝擊的時候他也必須要表達出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
482.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
508.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你如果想說這是行政院通令他要表達那我覺得那是另外一套邏輯我也不是不能接受但你講沒有啊你不能這樣玩兩面手法你一下講說他可以自己表達一下又講可是我沒有這樣的命令我跟你講這樣政府公信力會受影響好我最後一個問題不好意思耽誤一點點時間你現在各部會要盤點計劃性補助也許會改變分配比例或什麼各式各樣的方法有哪一些是你檢討原則哪一些項目是你優先要檢列的對象各縣市檢討的比例會是什麼請問你什麼時候會把這個版本算出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
509.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
528.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們要看到的是這個東西嘛你如果有然後你再講衝擊大家可以接受縣市政府如果要用新增的統籌分配款來補也有理有據可是你完全沒有就是這種概括性的也不是中央政策的數字到處亂跑我是很懷疑你行政院螺絲掉滿地啦你這些計畫什麼時候可以給大家一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
529.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
549.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個部分那個主計長這邊正在處理正在處理的時間表啊 我要問時間表 我知道你在處理啊那個可能要讓主計長來處理這樣子讓他來處理這有問跟沒問一樣實在是喔好啦沒關係反正行政院秘書長這個禮拜四還會來內政委員會就希望他這個該來的時候要來好不好謝謝啦謝謝 |