| IVOD_ID |
158510 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158510 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-30T11:08:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-30T11:21:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/358c3f0dd56dd1e084722c87da1aa8834f10c035d50fc648d9c2d0a04e685e492aeb4f393fa6d6c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李彥秀 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:08:40 - 11:21:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院龔秘書長明鑫、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲就「行政院表示：因財劃法修正，114年度總預算須重編」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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主席長,我想先請問您一下, 您們現在有掌握各委員會審議預算的進度嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
39.326 |
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42.414 |
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是,那我請問立法院有沒有在擋預算? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.738 |
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72.519 |
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沒有嘛齁好那這個訊息要讓外界全部都知道其實過去10年以來我們大概在年度12月31號審完預算大概只有3年就是7年度101年度跟105年度完成刪讀大部分都是過完國立年後立法院才陸陸續續把預算審完但是也都沒有影響到所有整個行政院各部會去使用預算對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.485 |
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92.042 |
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我今天要提的是二倍二倍金是我們政府中央政府的應急錢也是人民的救命錢沒有錯嘛那各部會送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
116.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
要使用動二的部分你們到底有沒有好好的一筆一筆來審議 有 有沒有 有經過行政院還是直接交給你你全部通通買單我們審查然後簽行政院准對不起你麥克風好遠我聽得不是很清楚我們審查以後簽行政院核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.109 |
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136.339 |
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所以我觀察一下在113年度也就是今年度5000萬的動用二倍總共有11筆這兩天媒體上也有看到我的談話我相信你有看到二倍使用腐爛的程度不要說我們不給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.254 |
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163.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是光是包括教育部拿來蓋校際研教園區還有外交部拿來辦住處的換約這個都不會是今年才知道的我為什麼請行政院副秘書長站在旁邊這些應該都不是今年才知道的為什麼會用動二包括內政部拿來辦理義難教招 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
168.553 |
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這些該使用動惡嗎?主席長,你懂我意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.813 |
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196.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一般部會是這樣的他討論以後他原來的預算不夠支應所以我們預算動資二倍金他條件有什麼叫做預算不夠支應外交部拿來辦住處的換約這都不會是當下113年才知道他可能去年前年就已經知道時間到了要換約這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.781 |
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223.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
但是他不確定性,所以他沒有辦法說那個在當年…什麼叫做不確定性?他早就應該把這個事情每個部會如果都說我不確定性所以我都要用凍二來處理,那還得了凍二當時法規上同意你用凍二的目的是什麼?你們現在凍二是全部都用凍二來去做處理那你現在包括凍二簽完了之後很多還變成流用 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.929 |
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236.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
包括以111年度為例子申請用動二的總共有1647萬那隔年有保留到隔年使用的有99.62%包括國發會買這個檔案櫃到最後也保留主計長這種東西怎麼用動二你不覺得很離譜嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
國發會買檔案櫃然後最後保留我看還有什麼東西還有辦公室的搬遷跟整修議政署他花了1647萬你覺得這個該使用棟二嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
288.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他臨時接貨要在定期內要做一個搬遷那所以這個搬遷不是在預計的範圍裡面這個早就應該這個早就應該是用一般的預算編入吧包括醫政署他要用辦公室搬遷跟整修 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
307.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他可以挪到明年或追加預算進來啊怎麼會用凍二呢他如果真的這麼急就用追加預算進來啊我們再來看怎麼處理啊怎麼用凍二你現在預備金是八山八海每一個部會想要用什麼都可以用换成是各部會另外一個小金庫啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
316.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
325.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那各部會就不用好好編列啦。他就不用好好編列,反正不夠,到時候沒編,編得不夠精準,我全部都用送二,你通通都收啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
327.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以原則上其實我們是對比較臨時有需要的第一我看到的是你沒有去追究各部會的行政責任所以對他們來說反正我沒有編到沒關係我就到最後我就索技術我用動惡來處理這就好了反正行政院會簽合同意對他來說心態就這樣子啊在我看來這一筆包括辦公一南辦公室的這個辦公室的裝修跟整修包括國發會買檔案櫃 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
356.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
欸 這個很離譜捏 這個也來用動惡來處理你聽到你自己不會覺得這怎麼會用動惡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
362.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我有沒有講錯?對,他就是說因為可能增加數量或者是說原來沒有預計到要...這跟增加數量也沒有關係那你就今年不要編明年再編進來就好明年公務預算一個檔案貴明年再編這有什麼但是用動二字就離譜了不符合動二的規範使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
385.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
395.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那你各部會送進來動案你也沒有所謂的行政責任所以未來各部會就變成說反正編不夠沒關係我有一個小金庫可以用我就用預備金來處理就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
397.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
421.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
東俄它的動資條件它其實是有三個啦一個就是原來計劃它有修正那第二個就是它有增加數量所以它是符合它的一個動資的原則就是數量增加導致它原來預算不夠的部分那第三個就是它有新增計劃所以它的三個原則就是等於你都沒有一個門檻你心裡都你心裡有這三個原則那我編不夠我全部不想寫我就全部都要編就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
433.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
447.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
主席長我覺得齁動惡的使用齁我還是再次強調是政府的應急前當國家發生重大的事件需要緊急用的時候或者是人民的救命前 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
448.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
466.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
目前在我看來,無論是買檔案櫃,或者是辦公室的搬遷,或者是拿義男教召,或者是外交部拿來辦住外處換租,我覺得這都不是第一時間起,這早就應該各部會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
468.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
468.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
李彥秀 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
487.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
503.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這就更加離譜了,對不對?比如說它核定的時間就已經超過預算籌編的時間,它就來不及,所以這個部分就需要來動惡,是這樣子。在我看來你完全沒有把關嘛,所以在我看來各部位的編不夠就這樣子使用就好了,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
505.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
525.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我覺得這不符合我們所謂外界在觀察救命錢的使用所以會淪為各部會的小金庫所以我再一次認為我覺得主計處在這一個各部會使用動惡的把關上為了讓各部會未來精準地去編列各單位的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
526.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
549.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要更用心我覺得動惡的使用不應該是這樣的使用方式我再一次提醒我這樣子講應該合理啦行政院包括買什麼檔案櫃這個沒有那麼急啦外交部換約的部分早在前一兩年早就應該知道早就應該去做好因應的準備他用不到他自己在留用就好了而不是在動惡裡面在留用 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
551.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
571.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一男的叫糟的辦公室更是如此所以我覺得目前的說法沒有辦法去說服外界對於動二預備金的服用濫用跟流用這個我必須要讓行政院的副秘書長知道這件事情所以動二的使用不應該淪為各部會的小金庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
573.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
599.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個最近我在媒體上已經有指出來我也希望主計長你在這邊動惡的部分要更嚴格的把關然後最後我要再一次問一下財劃法的部分複利民可以請回那個到目前為止我剛剛聽到幾位委員的質詢的結果大概大部分大概都聽到無論是限數法或財劃法這個部分都打算走復議對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
602.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
618.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個部分那個行政院還在討論我們相關的一個因應措施看我們他整個一個討論的結果但這個部分也會跟也要經過總統的核可嘛對不對走副議那總統核可對不對賴總統核可那我再請一下副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
625.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
648.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為程旭是復裕之後決定要復裕不管這三個法案哪一個法案要復裕哪一個法案最後要走釋憲最後都要總統的核可對不對對所以也就是說這整件事情最後也要總統同意嘛對所以從今天上午聽到現在這三個法案最後做出的結果也都是賴總統的意志 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
650.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
666.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我這樣講沒有錯嗎?我們會跟他報告,同意後我們對,到最後就是賴總統的意志嘛那到底賴總統對於這三個法案最後我昨天聽到在其他委員會有聽到說路上有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
667.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
689.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我從媒體上有看到說到底會不會召集院紀協調的部分後來否認沒有那到底這三個法案會不會走院紀協調?行政院跟立法院會不會走院紀協調?會不會請總統出來做院紀協調?有沒有這件事情?你不清楚還是不知道還是不敢說?你不知道?媒體上有沒有看到? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
692.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
698.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
媒體上有聽聞有新聞有聽聞有聽聞所以你不知道我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
702.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
723.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好,第一個我尊重了我覺得這整件事情這三個法案這三大法案每一個法案其實都是攸關人民不管是立法院在野黨的立場也好或你們的立場也好對於國家整個未來的運作跟預算執行都是洞見觀瞻我覺得大家也都在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
723.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
723.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
謝謝委員 |