| IVOD_ID |
158478 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158478 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-30T09:23:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-30T09:37:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/358c3f0dd56dd1e02900ac62d03977ea4f10c035d50fc6487c1494669c19844fb8cb1959c7f2e8ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林德福 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:23:16 - 09:37:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院龔秘書長明鑫、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲就「行政院表示：因財劃法修正，114年度總預算須重編」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【113年12月30日及114年1月2日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.726 |
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7.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席,是不是我們請陳主計長莊部長陳主計長莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主席長,10天前立法院三讀通過修正財劃法：行政院發言人李慧芝在記者會上就表示說明年度總預算恐怕會受到嚴重的衝擊甚至可能需要重編上個禮拜三財委會開會答詢的時候莊部長卻回答本席說我們有說過重編嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
74.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
北京十分疑惑：難道當天行政院記者會是AI的身為記者會嗎?你沒有聽到嗎?主計長當天記者會你也在座李慧芝旁邊請問你有聽到李花言人提到重編兩個字嗎?有沒有?有沒有?這個部分我是沒有注意到你沒有注意到?部長你沒有聽到? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
委員 我想預算的編列是非常重大的事情沒有 有沒有聽到嘛這個部分你有沒有聽到嘛我沒有注意到這個你沒有注意到兩位都沒有注意到行政院記者會花妍能是代表行政院院長餒不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為我們必須要說的是重編這個事情因為涉及到整個總預算收到立法院了你不要講了如果你有聽到議會的記者們也都有聽到那請問你為什麼部長你會沒有聽到記者都有聽到只有你沒有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
139.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我不是說我沒有聽到因為那一天他的意思就是說財劃法那天通過以後的山盧通過以後的對這個相關的一些施政會有嚴重的衝擊不要狡辯本席很少這麼生氣講實在話做事情你要面對現實包括主計長你在台南當主計長的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
賴市長那時候你再當他的主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
145.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
161.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你是不是你的論文措施論文也是根據這個財政要劃分有沒有主計長報告委員時空環境不一樣喔對換了個位置就換了個腦袋時空環境不一樣卓氏金輝就對了啦條件不一樣卓氏金輝就對了啦我們是薪水付不出來這麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
四年我們的超增一兆八千多億每年超增四千五百億你有沒有統計過但是報告委員超增是暫時性的並不是我們修改是結構性的我們統計有12年有6年是短差的以上那個部長我再請教難道行政院記者會容許會後各說各話各自解讀嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
可以嗎我們沒有各自解讀也沒有各自解讀但是你們剛剛所講的包括你那天所講的就是各自解讀反之如果你也沒有聽到那是不是意味著財政部主計處都認為修法是事小還不到要總預算重編的地步是不是這樣子修法事小跟委員報告因為總預算行政院已經籌編完成並請送請大院審議目前大院已在審議當中對 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
暗示那天 對不對 行政院發言人所講的你們都是當耳邊風因為他是代表行政院院長 對不對部長、主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
259.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
財劃法三讀後．行政院不是開記者會說自愛難行．對明年總預算有嚴重的衝擊．不然就是拿原鄉預算、教育預算．以及金工教加薪來威脅不同的群體．甚至於連國防預算． |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
261.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
預應的津貼都能用來恐嚇全民。主計長：如果對明年總預算有衝擊為什麼行政院明知道財劃法在立法院上會期充分的溝通而且立法院也做成了主決議要財政部這個會期你們要提出版本到現在行政院還亂扣帽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
299.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
在代表多數民意的立法院身上那我請問主計長在這個時機點你認為行政院有沒有提出修法新版本的可能會不會會不會你告訴我嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
303.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
318.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
目前針對立法院通過的一個財劃法目前行政院正在研究相關的一個因應的措施所以這個部分我們等行政院研究出來這個措施之後我們配合辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
319.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
339.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我請問你,如果行政院互裕失敗,事件也不如行政院預期一月到四月就要核定115年度這個施政方針以及總預算的籌編那我請問主計長,你認為115年度總預算編列有沒有困難度?有沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
340.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
360.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當然是有困難的原則上其實我們扣除一般性就是依法律義務一兆八我們是三兆一嘛114是三兆一一一四年度為例三兆一扣掉一兆八一法律剩下一兆三那就要減百分之三十左右好那個主計長因為40年啊都沒有修的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
362.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
378.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
財劃法代表多數民意的立法委員終於通過修法總統行政院就說倉促立法修法之前還說現在的版本是最好的版本那我請問主計長你認為現在的版本真的是最好的版本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
379.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
396.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
以目前來講因為我們有補助現在是2500億一般性的補助這個部分就佔6%但是過去這段時間你們是看顏色在補助啦你像蘇貞昌高雄申請一個漁港3000多萬他補助81億 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
399.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
419.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對不對?你們為什麼不檢討?補助81億捏!3000多萬補助81億!如果真的最好的那我請問你為什麼賴總統在擔任台南市長的時候要強烈要求中央修財化法?當時的你也是台南市的主計處的處長到底支持還是反對賴市長? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
425.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
440.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你是支持還是反對賴市長你告訴我報告委員那時候台南市的狀況他是已經達到公債法的上限然後薪水發不出來的狀況那時候的情況和現在不一樣現在的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
441.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
442.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以說你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
457.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
476.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你認為修財劃法這不是最好的版本因為面對將近40年沒有修訂的財劃法你認為沒有堅持推動修法和初心繼續提供總統修法迫切性的意見反而任意批評迫切修法代表多數民意的立委是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
477.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
493.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不是批評立委而是針對現有的狀況如果這樣的修法將會造成行政院的一個在執行上有很大的一個困難因為他必須刪減將近30%那會嚴重影響到各項的一個重大的一個建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
495.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
516.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
大家心智度明部長上個禮拜本席質詢你的時候預算是不是要重編如果要重編就不用審預算了結果你回答114年就要開始了怎麼重編因為中央施政怎麼去推動部長按照行政院花園人的說法明年度總預算會受到嚴重的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
517.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
538.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
甚至於恐怕需要重編那媒體報導部長打你的臉行政院打你臉的這個媒體報導部長你打臉行政院的說法請問部長對於是不是要重編總預算的看法你看行政院是不是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
540.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
553.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我那天已經跟委員報告114年在這個禮拜已經要開始了總預算也經過行政院籌編在大院審議當中各項施政都必須往前推進這個籌編他是知識體大的我覺得說得很清楚已經跟委員說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
557.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
580.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為我剛剛也請教主計長如果行政院互遇失敗事件也不如行政院議期那我請問部長短期內財政部有沒有再提出修法的可能對於立法院深度通過財化法後續的相關的一些行政救濟等等的一些措施我們和主計總處還有行政院目前都在評估各種相關的措施當中部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
581.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
602.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
您說倉促修法改變現有財政的秩序影響各級政府財政的穩健這是另一個分配不均的開始那我請問部長修法前的財劃法是不是完全沒有分配不均的問題修法前的財劃法的情況我們都很了解因此是透過一般性補助款還有計劃型的補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
602.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
602.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以說你才會說： |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
626.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
632.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
被卓院長稱為最好的版本是不是因為這樣所以行政院不願意提修法的版本?是不是這樣子?但是立法院已經做過主決議而且要你們修你們都不提 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
650.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
670.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
處理好以後你們又來推翻要講三道事說三道事部長對於財劃法三讀通過後對中央施政的相關自愛你說財政部跟主計總處正在演繹中那我請問部長如果最後的結果還是要維持修法所謂的自愛難行財政部有沒有信心來克服有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
671.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
697.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對於相關的制裁的部分剛剛主總在報告裡面已經分析得相當清楚了那對於有沒有要提財劃法的修正我們已經在之前已經想過財劃法的修正必須要爭取最大的一個共識來能夠減少一些爭議這個部分財政部一直在努力而且把相關的指標也濃縮後續就是權重已經調整的係數等等要去進一步的討論我覺得這個部分是財政部一直在努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
697.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
708.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那如果可以克服你認為財政部所堅持的水平垂直分配的指標會不會出現偏差?如果不能克服會不會考慮你要辭職下台? |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
709.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
732.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
對於我個人的質問並沒有任何的堅持但是我覺得把這個財劃法能夠做一個更好的調整一直是我們努力的方向其實大家都是相同的看法來我最後一個議題那個114年度課稅收入編列2.77兆創歷史新高而且比113年度預算成長19.88%那我請問部長修法後的財劃法對未來年度的課稅收入會不會有影響會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
738.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
751.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
稅收入第一個我們在課稅收入的時候我們是先估比如說以所得稅來說我是先估全國的然後再按那個財劃法的規定的比例撥到專案統籌分配稅款進去當然是在比例的變動當然它的額度就會變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
752.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
781.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
其實事實上根據立法院預算中心對財政部評估報告指出114年度的總預算案課稅收入佔稅入結構比例是87.97%也就是支應各項正式支出最主要的財源但是課稅收入的準確度從110年度開始每年課稅收入時增數遠超過預算數更矛盾的是114年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
783.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
785.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在預期經濟成長是3.26%第113年的3.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
792.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
819.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
九下所編列的課稅收入．反而是113年度增加百分之19.88．更創歷史新高．那部長因為失準的課稅收入預算數．預計的經濟成長的成長率．對比矛盾的數字到底是怎麼一回事．意思就是說你成長的高．但是稅率收入少．成長的低反而多．其實這個問題很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
821.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
821.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
謝謝林德福 |