| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f7e4b646118ff6a10c439f3b3decc8b4c691fc1ddc1369661b05595a75c08a28f952555c339954dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳菁徽 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:08 - 10:39:48 |
| 影片長度 |
1000 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長、考試院、行政院人事行政總處針對「所屬機關有關霸凌事件之調查檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【業務報告及專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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請陳菁徽委員質詢。那我們在王振旭委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘。主席各位委員我也想請邱部長。 |
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18.243 |
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32.309 |
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陳副部長,我剛聽了這麼多委員質詢,我有一種濃濃的即視感。大概幾個禮拜以前,何佩珊就是跟你類似一樣的態度跟說法,說這份報告很用心,管理不當。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.49 |
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37.533 |
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剛剛有講到說健康操的時間你有看到投訴的內容嗎投訴的內容是請他深蹲報告欸你覺得如果賴清德總統叫你深蹲跟他報告你還是覺得賴清德總統管理不當你想看看是不是賴清德總統管理不當 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
52.156 |
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70.673 |
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他是深蹲要報告欸!這個請理事長...我先跟大家說明一下,那個委員會在報告,那個深蹲他那個不是報告,他那個是說大家各科大家就是邊運動然後大家做一些...邊運動邊開會!邊深蹲邊開會!大家就講一些... |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.362 |
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102.932 |
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其實最主要是大家輪流然後在這裡面也有一些除了身體上面留另外一方面大家也可以分享一些我們的一些其他的事情而且我跟各位報告這真的不是強迫的部長你自己有看過你們那個六頁的報告嗎但是其實內容只有四頁有一頁還是空白頁你自己有看過嗎有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.545 |
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117.355 |
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我說部長有有有那部長你講的出來是哪些人被懲處嗎?被懲處的原因是什麼?因為被懲處的人啊現在大家都不認識根本就不是我們質詢問你的人都不是 |
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120.831 |
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145.711 |
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都在懲罰小的、大的全部都放掉了然後你們現在說管理不當記過然後又說深蹲一起開會報告事情不叫霸凌那我問你啊你們這個15分鐘的運動健康操時間是不是共識決?你可以請同仁出來說這個是我們這個部門一起願意每天要一起做這個是共識決嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.284 |
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169.192 |
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報告委員我想兩個重點第一個就是您剛剛說的其實我們這些我想我們的原則一定是公開透明而且物中但是也物往所以整個這個程序裡面完全都是尊重外部委員他的一個整個獨立的判斷一個專業的判斷其實這個是一個所以他到最後結果是怎麼樣老實說我們真的不能干涉 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.207 |
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但是我們要尊重專業的一個整個他的這個判斷的一個最後結果我聽懂了部長現在都是外部委員寫的所以我們要尊重外部委員但是部長你也有你的政治責任所以部長你願意為這個報告背書嗎還是你不願意因為是外部委員寫的我們完全尊重我們完全尊重這個所以你們不願意為這份報告背書不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.792 |
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212.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
報告委員其實最重要的其實真的我們要尊重這個整個專業上面的一些評斷還有我也跟委員報告我們整個過程裡面其實除了我們有四位的外部委員是獨立的另外第二個就是說我們在這個過程裡面我們有訪談了將近96位的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
214.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
216.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
為什麼會有人為什麼會有這麼多人來跟立法委員陳情就是因為你現在講的事情完全不符合人民心中的標準跟邏輯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
238.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
249.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你為什麼不將心比心?如果賴清德總統跟你說你們必須要先親身啊!你等人家來他殺那都一把火啦!你要先親身才可以表示你的誠意啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
250.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
276.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你覺得這樣不算職場霸凌嗎?其實很多事情這個都要還原當時的這一個只有講一次要長期是這個意思嗎?當然還有另外一個您剛剛說那個輕生的這些那個是整個在業務在整個公文指導上面我承認這個我也同意這個用詞是真的他可是管理社工的人他是應該要是全國最重視我們心理健康的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
277.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
277.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
拜訪議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
297.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
323.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報告委員他本來是社保司司長所以你的意思是說哇你們剛剛楊楊撒撒、劉建國委員列出來這些人都是中階的幹部被離職所以霸凌最嚴重的是中階幹部最上面的都是管理不當你覺得大家可以接受你們的新聞稿嗎?各位報告委員其實齁真的我覺得整個這個過程裡面齁我覺得真的要物重 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
324.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
339.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但是呢我覺得也不能夠也勿往啦因為這個就是我們整個處理我想那個邱信仁委員剛剛也說嘛就是要勿縱勿往而且過程一定公開透明那整個這個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
340.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
356.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
沒關係,我們簡單的回答一下,現在你們衛福部下面有做這個健康操的部門有哪些?然後哪些是共識出來的?哪些是司長規定的?很簡單啊,大家只想知道到底這個健康操休憩時間是強迫的還是共識的?還是可參加可不參加? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
361.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
369.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
報告委員我覺得這個我也昨天我也前天在跟回應記者的時候我也說我個人認為這個是非常不當的那個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
369.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
379.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那你現在取消了嗎?你取消所有衛福部規定要做健康操的單位了嗎?那可以不用參加嗎?你會宣布說可以不用參加嗎?從現在開始?那我們要看到你發布的這個發布給全部衛福部同仁的這個人書 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
400.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
420.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我覺得你講這個東西很不符合我們一般人民的標準我問你如果你們在開行政院院會賴清德總統行政院長說欸現在健康上的時間大家自由選擇要不要參加齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
422.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
443.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
您覺得有人敢不跳嗎?報告委員,我必須再一次強調,那個只是那個時間在那邊至於您願不願意,我們當然還是基本上鼓勵是,剛劉建國委員已經講得很清楚了霸凌的形式有哪些,其中也有包括心理的壓力那你一個時間定在那邊,主管都已經在做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
444.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
451.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你覺得不做的人不會有壓力嗎?所以你們的報告其實意思是說中階主管卻有霸凌的事實但是管理中階主管的這批人只是因為管理不當所以被記小過這是你們報告的意思不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
474.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
493.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
報告委員,我們所有的,我們說有一分證據說一分話,有一分證據我們就辦一分案。同樣的,我們現在目前的整個這個懲處其實也是,我再一次強調,就是我們的外部的獨立委員,他們在經過相關的量化資料以及……好,那你的報告完全也沒寫出? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個中階主管他們霸凌屬實後來被調職的原因都沒有寫出來這跟所有我們接到的投書的內容都完全不一樣雖然我們已經感受到我們接到投書的內容已經就是霸凌的事實了可是你的報告都沒有寫喔我們現在都不知道喔就是你拿出來祭旗的這批人到底做了什麼事情我們完全不知道我們這個沒有真的完全沒有所謂祭旗不祭旗的事情但是我剛剛說就是說必須Evidence based |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
526.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
529.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這是教育部105年公告的學校訂定教師輔導與管理學生辦法注意事項明訂體罰的樣態以及範圍但是呢您說福利挺身不算是體罰霸凌而是PK我想請教一下這個教育部明訂出來體罰紅框框理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
552.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
福利挺身是不是不用算在內?以後老師都可以叫學生福利挺身?PK?報告委員我再還原一下正如剛剛部長剛剛有說的嘛只有一次而已22月那一次剛好就有一個新進同仁進來他在那邊說他有做健身那剛好他說有另外一位替代役他也說他會做福利挺身那大家就起哄嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
585.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以在整個過程影片過程裡面各位那個委員也可以看到所以你覺得大家如果是起哄和樂融融為什麼這個影片還會被傳出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
589.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
590.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以未來你們衛福部可以訂一個PK表PK是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
611.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
638.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
報告委員因為我們剛剛已經說了我們不會我們會提供這一個健康操時間但是用什麼形式這基本上完全尊重同仁所以這個基本上就不涉及要不要定那些我覺得還是要就是部長也常常跟我們講我們將心我們站在這個同仁的立場我們就是要給同仁一個最好的一個整個有尊嚴的而且最好的資產環境我也跟委員報告剛剛劉建國委員我也要說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
638.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
639.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我是具體建議啦,因為很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
666.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
667.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
下一題,對不起,主持我想問部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
696.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
723.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
部長我看到這個新聞我是非常難過因為我這幾天其實有一些人嘗試聯繫我我聽完這些故事以後我覺得蠻痛苦的因為同樣身為女生很多醫生希望透過我來發聲說他們看到全國的醫師看到全國的醫師的最大長官叫做衛福部部長管理醫事法的是你沒錯吧醫療法的主管機關也是你沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
725.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
728.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我聽完這些受害者的故事真的有人聯絡我了還有一些不是在新聞裡面的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
753.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
請問我們全國醫師最高指導單位會務部長不用做什麼嗎?你有沒有什麼具體可以為他們做的?好,我們就是依規定在辦理嘛。如果醫師有涉及到相關的這些性騷擾相關事件,僱主就會依要性憑三法來規定。這個台大也有在進行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
775.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
800.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以好像已經離職了那如果有司法或者是他看他的情節如果有司法機關來追溯他的刑事責任那如果是利用業務機會犯罪行為且經判刑確定沒關係部長部長你剛剛講的這個議事法裡面其實有一個不管是工會或者是主管機關都可以做出行動那請問衛福部到底算不算主管機關嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
803.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
805.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主管機關是先由當地的衛生局來移送。那你會去關心嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
816.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
843.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這件事情其實是各個縣市政府其實都有那個信憑的委員會會做調查所以是說其實衛福部這邊我要講的是醫事管理後我們是後段調查的結果出來之後我們其實是會做處理後去的處理其實就是以醫事法剛剛部長在講的就是說調查出來之後所以你的醫事法的主管機關你先交給工會還有地方的衛生機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
844.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
865.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
沒有。前面有一個各縣市政府的調查委員會。後面在發動的時候才是由剛剛部長講的。那部長你有去關心這件事走到哪裡了嗎?畢竟說不定裡面有一些人也是你認識的。受害者。我們目前只有初步的了解就是臺大醫院的部分其實是臺灣大學這邊在做調查以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
869.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
875.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
因為你是這個性殺老防治法的主責機關我會想問說保護司是不是應該主動介入來關心在整個調查過程有沒有降時有沒有疏失這些有沒有被接住因為他們是長期是長達3、4年以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
890.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
907.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
您們要不要做?您們要不要做這件事?要不要主動?按照信訊法防治法他是採取所謂的告示也就是被害人要申訴那他申訴之後就會按照申訴的流程去調查調查屬實之後會到審議會去做行政裁處 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
911.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
925.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
部長我還是希望因為真的蠻多人期待你可以做一些事情至少免除新的受害者很多人很擔心啊也有的病人說啊原來我以前也曾經經歷過這個醫生都有性騷寫在網路上寫在dcard那但是他現在卻還在執行業務這個是不是你也應該要去了解呢是不是應該是你的責任呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
936.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
941.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你不是管全國醫師的人嗎那你也應該保護這群受害的女醫師啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
944.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
966.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我想站在過去長期擔任比較屬於一屆的幹部我們有責任來關心所有醫師的工作的場所是不是安全然後很愉快部長你真的要大魄大力很多人期待你可以做一點事情因為這些事情在這個一屆長期 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
969.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
973.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
有倫理關係、不對等關係、權勢關係這些事可能不只在這個地方有發生好,我想我們會委由我會來拜託那個議事公會全聯會大家也會期待衛福部有一個具體的聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
990.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
997.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好,我想我們把事情理得更清楚以後一定會有守立場我們會再繼續追你好,沒問題謝謝好,謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
158185 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158185 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-14 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-16T10:23:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-16T10:39:48+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |