| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f7e4b646118ff6a1186154e7630f494bc691fc1ddc136966d93535e53c7a9e8d66d4deb5ed01280b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:14:55 - 09:31:30 |
| 影片長度 |
995 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長、考試院、行政院人事行政總處針對「所屬機關有關霸凌事件之調查檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【業務報告及專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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有請邱部長部長早部長早上週屢次召開的這個霸凌案調查記者會你有什麼感想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.712 |
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47.227 |
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當然有嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件。那我們也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理。然後我們也成立了調查的...部長,我是問的是你的感想。你在想說你們會有一些原則。上週的記者會我只有八個字給部長。官官相護、避重就輕。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.688 |
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64.938 |
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勞動部第一次的調查報告和部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告．引發衝怒欸然後部長你也不遑多讓說這是用心高規格的調查那我們就來看一下有多用心有多高規格啊 |
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65.998 |
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應該是調查的結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.422 |
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84.482 |
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因為我們...呃... |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.731 |
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128.017 |
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我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度也尊重外部專家的一個非常專業的一個來評判為什麼不能公開那因為他其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
150.336 |
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那這些同仁我們必須要做自閉化該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛 這個你要報查報告還是要出來你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網做得到嗎勞動部都做到了你做不到嗎我現在給你時間馬上交代我要上網去看報告可以嗎請調查小組的召集人李次長 |
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151.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.146 |
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為什麼我要報告就好 我不要你怎麼做的 我要調查報告也非常感謝委員的這個關心 那我跟委員做一個簡單報告 因為其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁他受到訪談 那麼在訪談的過程裡面這些有講到就不用了 金融導遊才不用嘛還是希望不具名 因為這裡面會簽到就是說不具名沒問題啊 不具名沒問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
180.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望就是說可能可能有一些那你就是還沒有做好嘛那個報告還不確實嘛我們其實都已經做好那麼這裡面我們還是要考量同仁他們的這個隱私還有你可以把identity蓋好那其實我們也透過這次的這一個詳細的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
191.833 |
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197.216 |
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您在糊弄我啦!您在糊弄我!你要重新講一次故事!好!這不是我要的答案!市長請回!市長請回!後續行政校給調!我等一下執行完回去我就要看啊!我要看調查報告啊!你乾脆就處理啊!勞動部做得到你做不到啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
216.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席是李正德次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
253.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不是啊,有衛福部官員跟我說啊因為劉益娟主秘是防護小組的主席本次是因為迴避啊暫時由次長代替但是劉益娟現在還是主秘啊那之後她是不是可以看調閱報告她可不可以知道是約談了哪些人這些被約談的講了什麼話部長請告訴我她可不可以看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
259.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
274.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想我們這次的調查報告是人事處長就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好這些調查報告目前都是密件目前?但是他回到他還在組密啊?不會不會因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從自從組密我們原來的組密是跟個召集人 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
304.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
305.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
310.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
您覺得在這種氛圍之下,衛福部有辦法做出符合事實的調查嗎?只要劉玉娟一天在主命的位置上,就沒有人敢說真話?今天劉玉娟有來嗎?沒有啊,因為你把她免監的那個社保司啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
325.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
335.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他是完成順利的升官啊他免監社保司啊他除掉的工作負荷啊但是他還是可以監督社保司啊你讓他成功的升官還在主命的位置上啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
336.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
358.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
讓他繼續不受監督,他不用來這裡了啊。為什麼不當一人之下、萬人之下,只去作威作福?社保司的工作是非常重要,而且牽涉到整個我們賢敏健保相關法案的一個法案是一個非常重要的一個工作。沒有人才了嗎?不要騙我啦,人才很多啦,不差他一個。上次子晴被我叫上來還裝無辜,那他跟錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
362.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
363.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
363.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
363.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那個語氣真是天壤之別阿! |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
363.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
364.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不然你有聽到嗎?你有聽到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
364.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
367.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那錄音帶你有聽到嗎?部長這種人你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?阿不是已經多少週了嗎?你現在還在跟我講原來你還沒有做完你就把調查報告送出來阿和部長之前也很嘴硬阿結果下午就辭職了阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
390.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
390.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
報告委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
407.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
407.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
市長請你留在台上 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
422.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
437.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你竟然要一直上門就留在台上竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁序自我找出問題的嚴重性才不會被他殺部長我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的教訓悲劇得到教訓叫下屬去自殺表示誠意這個叫比喻失當喔他講多少次叫人家去親身欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
444.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
444.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
陳昭姿 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
460.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
471.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你一直在聽他說話嗎?報告委員他的意思就是說你要對外要公開要把細節講得清楚他的意思就是說你要先自己先處理你如果自己沒有先處理的話那麼你等到外界來的話那這樣可能就不妥所以他的整個脈絡是這樣啦所以我會說這個比喻真的是真的不當所以我們也覺得就是說這個部分應該可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
485.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
506.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
部長,像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌,你敢不會煩惱補助,像北分署一樣無信同仁一樣做出無法挽救的選擇嗎?你真的要等鬧出人命嗎?好,我現在唸一個訊息給你聽,好嗎?來。委員好,這封信是在沉痛的心情下寫的。感謝委員舉發劉市長的惡舉。當看到委員的咨詢時,知道終於有人會關注。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
508.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
527.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
辛苦、受苦的同仁就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我臺北業務組一位濟姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡他本身是虔誠的基督徒一個基督徒為何會自殺當然如委員之前所述SOP的結論就是濟姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
528.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
550.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
與主管管教無關然而該科是由五六位同仁要求做心理輔導這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴信科長一起處理至於如何處理事實如何外人無法得知也無法進一步查證畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升衛福部的主命當時的賴信科長也高升本署的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
551.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
573.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
屬本部的副組長請問關關相互下誰敢說這位同仁表達是因為他看不下去一直都留著這位寄信同仁的副文這還是都還是陳昭姿寫的希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明果然是沒有這樣就證明總統及行政院長卓院長的指示根本不會落實還受這個能夠還給這個受冤者清白好我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
583.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
601.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這就是大衛親身的建保署台北業務組同仁的副文這是四年前的事當時建保署台北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在建保署台北業務組的時候裡面的員工有多痛苦根本是度日如年我再念一段陳情文給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
602.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
624.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長這是臺北業務組同仁夢夜的開始一、有位同仁儘管現在已經退休他說他到現在只要聽到劉司長的一切消息手仍然會顫抖他只想要忘記這段過去拒絕談論這一切但他希望有人能夠勇敢的站出來舉發二、有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
626.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
651.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
長官領導風格括號自動降調為非主管降調另外有一位專委三位科長被逼退休由於目前仍在署內的資訊同仁署本部資訊長官只能盡量用會議的名稱名義讓他回署本部逃離工作現場這是這仍然是他寫的這是我最近所聽聞的一切一切聽聞當然也是要以署理依據總統及行政院長的指示一一要調查清楚及釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
652.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
675.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是仍然令人失望有人跟我說這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真不是所有同仁都知道只給新進人員所以受傷的很多很多人都不知道有這份問卷調查甚至含杯離職或退休人都不知道有這份問卷所以在職的同仁及離職的同仁都認為問卷調查內容還只限於工作量的合理與否故意避開擴權濫權 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
678.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
684.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以填了也沒有效用因為他們是同一伙的關關相互對於做限制性的問卷調查敢怒不敢言這就是衛福部同仁的心聲希望你們聽進去我們絕對依規定並公處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
696.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
721.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
至於這一件事件剛剛您說的是一件事件我們也了解得相當清楚請理事說明一下報告委員其實這個事件我們都很遺憾但是據我們了解這個狀況事實上同仁十多年前就已經有接受相關的一個就已經接受治療那其實這個有關的整個事件發生跟調查情況市政委員都可以查證那其實老實說發生這個情況我們真的都不樂見但是我要強調這個事實上就整個時序上部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
725.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
745.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你以為我打當事人的家屬過來嗎?我們也不樂見有心人士來刻意操作這種不幸的事件來影射,老實說對於這個家長還有對於同仁事實上都是一個整個二度的災害。市長,你既然知道這件事的過程,除了霸凌之外：如果委員如果有了解,我們都可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來跟委員報告,謝謝。然後你的廢話我都不聽了,部長,這股一間醫學大樓的性騷案你有沒有注意到這個新聞?性騷案! |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
747.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
758.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
根據新聞報導,某位國內知名的婦產科全衛西教授性騷擾6名住院研究醫師而且已經經過臺大醫院性評會、教評會調查確認。博定,你覺得已經經過確認該如何處置這位醫師?博定你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
764.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
785.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我想醫師如果涉及性騷擾性侵害或者是性別除了應該由雇主以性騷擾防治法性別就性別性平三法的規定來辦理或者由司法機關追來部長我要跟你講這位西教授不甘心唷堂鼠利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
786.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
791.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理德醫醫師法第25條規定由醫師工會或主管機關依附懲戒。我想現在...我沒看到啦!我沒看到懲戒啦!這個徐教授不甘心還要找這個同為 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
803.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
811.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
國內婦產科大佬的總統府資政求救．這個資政還因此打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說甚至這個西教授現在已經轉到這個資政在臺中的任職這樣的安排OK嗎?你剛剛說從理、準理跟專業的角度我要告訴你不定婦產科醫師被認為性騷確認婦產科醫師的工作就是會牽涉接觸到女性最隱密的檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
830.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
855.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
該醫院還怎麼說?什麼教會叫護理人員一旁監視?內診的時候換別的醫師做?簡直是亂來啊!不中!這是那幾位受害的醫師、女醫師。她跟我們部內的某個立法委討論之後,她寫了很多建議報告。我念兩點給你聽。姓邵名醫離職台大後,現職醫院隨便說內診。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
857.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
862.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
改別人接手他看診然後等內責改別人醫師接手但實際上衍生恐掛名跟實際執行醫師不一致的全責釐清問題當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦好很重要的不管是加碼人員條例第22條跟明文規定曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或內在兒童性行為不得在幼兒園服務或是營養師 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
877.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
903.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
第二條,營養師法第6條規定,懲犯訴清嚴毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或危害毒品危害條例等,並經判決認定不能擔任營養師。啊,那,沒中。啊,一個副廠科醫師已經被好多名醫師這樣子確認,性騷確認。我要告訴你們這些醫師喔,他不只是被摸到腦臀部甚至還被摸進內褲,只能向院方申請保護令,禁止那位醫師靠近。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
904.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
908.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
而且信騷的醫師們甚至要到專科醫師考完 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
909.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
911.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
站出來檢舉都在擔心我有一天會不會被秋後算帳不定 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
941.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
947.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
醫師懲罪委員會可以依照他的情節、輕重、予以懲罪所謂：包括限制他的職業範圍：你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?這個應該由醫師懲罪委員會來處理： |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
965.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
965.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
謝謝委員．謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
158140 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158140 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-14 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-16T09:14:55+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-16T09:31:30+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |