| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6c9ad41bd34b9fe10517b72aed25d815042f85579c7bbf09eea424d6e3fa09888543b75889b48ec65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:01:10 - 14:15:21 |
| 影片長度 |
851 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。(公務及基金預算)
三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心114年度預算書案。
【所列預算案，僅詢答，113年12月9日下午5時截止收案】
【業務報告及討論事項綜合詢答】） |
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來請部長部長 |
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32.262 |
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主席先請坐那個部長我們的勞工啊爆肝工作超時工作現在最新的資料嘛全亞洲第二超的我們今天要想辦法來保護我們勞工的肝那保護之前我先問你一個問題你知道今天有不少的勞工團體 |
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54.622 |
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61.41 |
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在勞動部前面競作抗議甚至劫持嗎?有看到相關訊息。你去看過他們了嗎?還沒。還沒看過他們? |
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66.667 |
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所以這些很多應該都是你認識的朋友嗎?桃園市產業總工會整個工會以前都是跟著你一起去抗爭的,對不對?應該是很多是老朋友那你現在變成是他們抗爭的對象你心裡面有些感受?不一樣的感覺?我的工作就是把大家關心的事情給做好 |
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那你還沒去看他們什麼時候去看他們我想我們當然會關心你會不會去看他們我們會關心你知道他們要結實多久嗎我們會關心會關心對你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎知道當然什麼訴求當然他們主要針對的是救安基金目前致用的狀況嘿對他們抗議你齁說你現在只有轉達意見來我給你看一下 |
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他的意思其實跟我今天問的一樣嘛你紅委員變成紅部長你是不會倒退路以前你很勇敢去捍衛你的主張啊今天你的朋友來抗議你現在勞團抗議是這一點他說啊你為什麼面對勞工政策永遠是轉達意見永遠都是其他單位的責任他們舉了三個 |
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145.618 |
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157.352 |
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國定假日你講是來政府的問題公務金管勞動問題你就是考試院管的事情連勞保年金給戶要不要砍也就是是不是要比照何沛山部長講的任內不會砍 |
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還是要倒退?你說你目前沒有規劃。現在當然不會砍啊。對啊。當然不會砍啊。我知道。我知道。我說你的回答你沒發現都很空?對。這當然不會砍啊。不會砍。那前面是不是都很空?其實現在不是只有勞動團體來抗議啊。不是勞工團體來抗議啊。我的感覺也是這樣啊。我想要說你現在倒退路。我上禮拜問你勞動部長應該是對於吹哨者保護法 |
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183.815 |
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二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務概況：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務概況．僅 |
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210.912 |
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227.987 |
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一些議題他本身現在法規的主管機關是在其他部會那所以我的工作我當然是要把勞工的想法向這個法規的主責的部會來清楚的表達所以你是一個支持製造者保護法的 |
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229.646 |
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244.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
勞動部部長嗎?還是一個反對?還是一個悶不吭聲的勞動部長?那個張委員,催促的保護法真的不是勞動部的...你會支持嗎?你怎麼去問總統有支持嗎?你怎麼在清德跟你講我支持啊?一個總統、一個行政院長、一個部會首長該支持的案子你現在還在煽動? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
250.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
251.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這不是我勞動部的權責啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個法規要定化：是一個支持社會保護法的部長嗎?還是反對?我們當然我自己我當然是比方說現在勞動部裡面有各個申訴的案件我們當然要來保護勞動部內這些申訴案件的人不管是保密也好或者是要保護他相關的權利在勞動部內的部分我當然要盡量做嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
283.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
286.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是在我的權責下的,我應該把它做好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
286.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
290.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對嘛,被霸凌者、吹哨者也當然要保護啊,這就大聲講啊,為什麼閃? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
290.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
310.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
對,所以我現在說的意思是說,勞動部內假設有這些申訴者跟陳情人的話,他們提出相關的意見,我當然要保護,包括保密也好,或者是他們相關的權益的保護,這部分在我的部內,我當然要盡量做嘛。 其他部會如果有碰到這個問題,你應該也要支持吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
311.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
340.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
包括勞工啊 社會保護法保護的全體的勞工不是跟你勞動部的勞工而已是 所以有些人說我在勞動部下的部份你都要去要有好的那個催促者保護法去保護啊我不要曝光啊我在我勞動部下的當然我要盡量做啊好來我直接問你啦好來我勞工的話問你國定假日其實我們勞工為什麼全亞洲第二超第一個是工時工時太長嘛第二就是國定假日七天 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
342.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
363.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
被你民進黨把它砍掉了嘛 對不對你支持你居然沒有人回答說你要去問內政部啊你機器把那個七天找回來嗎跟趙遠說明我當然支持要逐步降低勞工在工時上面的負擔我當然支持降低工時上的負擔那降低工時負擔有很多不同的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
365.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
390.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那關於國定假日的議題我說國定假日的議題確實它法規的主責是在內政部主責你要不要去爭取讓勞工多休幾天假或者你的勞動部的公務員可以多趙委員法規的主責在其他部會我們當然願意來反映勞工的心聲跟勞工的期望像這個主責的部會來反映我們當然願意所以主責單位是內政部那你更重要是後面這句話嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
391.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
394.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你是願意去爭取的嗎?請不信?我們當然願意來反映喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
394.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
418.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對啊!來反映勞工﹖我們當然願意反映勞工的想法跟勞工的心聲這當然我們願意來反映喔!對啊!你一開始這樣談那為勞工就不會今天就不會坐在那邊坐在那邊要節食100個小時啦!你要去看他們他們會問張祺海一樣問的問題嘛!對不對?所以我剛才說的是我說確實這裡面會有幾個議題他牽涉到的是包括法規的主管在其他部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
420.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
437.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我我們能做的是把勞工的期待該反映的要反映對你現在去看節食抗議100個小時這些勞工團體的這個朋友他問你說國定假日要去聽改革對不對因為工時太長嘛他們要爭取這7天的假嘛你要怎麼回答他 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
437.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
463.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你要回答他說?你要回答第一個嗎?這是內政部主管的嗎?還是回答你剛跟我的對話?你會支持幫他們爭取?我我我從來沒有說這只是內政部的事情我的意思是說我們這這個法規的主管在其他部會我們該做的事情是反映嘛所以你會反映嘛當然啊而且這民眾要看的是你的態度不是跟人家反映而已啊你不是你可不是接線生哥啊現在民眾要看以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
465.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
491.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
紅委員是有態度的、沒有方法的﹖現在不一定沒有方法、沒有態度的﹖你今天來這邊你都好像吸引故事在講空話嗎?關於工時的問題我們也希望能夠具體要降低工時所以有些部分在我自己的部內的工作我能夠做的部分包括是我們怎麼來協助勞資雙方建立一個更好的協商的機制讓更多的工會有辦法簽到比方說像團體協約因為團體協約是可以憂於法規的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
494.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
517.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那讓勞資雙方其實可以約定更合理的工時那也包括我們自己也很努力在解決比方像缺工的問題那讓缺工的部分勞動力開發假設可以更進一步緩解的話這當然也有助於現在大家看到的這些因可能因為勞動力不足而必須面對的加班的問題也包括我們能夠做的相關的比方說像薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
518.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
544.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
低薪也是我們一直以來要面對的問題所以包括像基本工資等等的調薪都是希望讓這個薪資的部分希望可以逐步的來提高來減少可能有部分的勞工他會因為他的收入過低所以他自己被迫必須要去加班來增加收入的狀況這在我們的工作裡面我們能做的部分我們都會盡力來做這些事情都是在面對大家現在講到的不管過勞的問題或者是工時過長的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
548.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
572.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這是有很多該做的做法。 對,所以我問你,不是只有立委在問你嘛,就是等一下你說你回去看你的在你樓下要節食,不是抗議而已喔,節食100個小時,抗議的要下多大的捷薪才節食100個小時,是有危險的捏。他問你的問題,他已經跟你講了,很直接,國定假日要增加,因為被民進黨拿走了7天嘛,你不能夠回答只有內政部問題,你要怎麼回答他就是剛講的嘛,對不對。公務的勞動問題,你剛你說科技主管啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
578.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
597.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那你要表達你的意見啊,你勞動部也有,你還是勞動的主管機關欸。那個讓長遠,我其實有說明。包括像現在大家講到這個公務員的霸凌防治的問題。就我們的,像我們的職安署其實有相關的,不管是他的不法侵害, |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
597.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
614.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
或是霸凌相關專業上面去研討這部分的專業,我們當然也會把我們這相關的專業來提供給像考試院,如果他要訂定保護相關的規範的話,這部分當然是我們必須做的事情。 我覺得有一個地方民眾也一直都很有反應的, |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
615.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
636.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你這個專法都要到下個會期才要才訂專法或者是訂一個專章我跟你講臺灣民眾黨這幾天都要提專法了你會覺得你速度有夠慢有夠慢的嗎那個張委員我要我其實其實這一個多禮拜我們都在跟相關的專家學者在討論坦白說這個專法的訂定尤其是在定義上面跟機制上面真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
637.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
655.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不是一件已經有很多既成的事情。 人民要看到一個有擔當、有態度、有解決方法的部會首長。 不是只有在那邊閃來閃去,一直在推。 沒有在閃來閃去,這些都是我們必須面對的問題。 人民會公平的,來。 這些都是我們要面對跟解決的問題。 因為時間比較有限,我問一下。 那現在是亞洲第二超嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
657.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
684.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
臺灣去年的總工時現在破兩千啊國際的這個勞工組織不要講過啊一個禮拜如果工作超過五十五點鐘你的那個心臟血管的疾病風險就增加了那現在臺灣啊2023總工時超過兩千個小時2020小時僅次於新加坡未及亞洲第二現在更嚴重其實是後面這幾個月我們臺灣啊有二十萬人一個禮拜工作時間超過六點鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
686.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
694.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
幾度的過勞?你看國際的勞工處就跟你講了,一天55點鐘你心臟血管壓力就很大了。結果我們是有25萬人,一個禮拜超過60小時欸。你現在重責大任了,怎麼去把工時把它降下來?我跟趙委員說明,剛剛其實針對工時降低的問題,其實就像我們剛剛說的,包括勞資協商希望能夠簽訂更多的團體、協約,這部分我們會請我們相關的司署來全力的協助我們。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
715.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
717.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
745.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
750.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
大部份的時間都是早上5、6點去上班嗎?有7、8點快早嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
750.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
754.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是。這個叫做假打卡增加班對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
756.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
779.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你有沒有去詳細調查過這個狀況?有,我們有去了解。所以你的調查報告,你們給我們的調查報告裡面會有這一塊?我們確實有看到無薪公務員,但是這當然有些關於調查內容的細節可能我們不便現在在這邊講,我到時候會通過公報。會有這一塊嗎?會有針對無薪公務員在生前的狀況。那我具體的要求,我的調查報告要看到這一個,因為真的很可憐。而且第二個,這可能不是只有他一個人的現象吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
780.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
806.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
應該是幾個勞動部啊你全部簽一下簽一次你調查報告裡面如果有就OK沒有的話你兩個禮拜喔你調查報告你拿出來之後兩個禮拜給我一份你們的勞動部裡面有多少這種假打卡真加班的我要這個資料是因為第一個把真相弄清楚第二個一定要前面去杜傑好不好張委員我向你說明因為我們當然在這邊對調查的細部的狀況我們不宜在這邊多說啦齁但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
807.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
835.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
關於無姓公務員他在生前他經歷了什麼狀況我想這是我們這一次調查非常非常重要的重點對你上次特別跟我講啊你說一個禮拜內就是這個禮拜會提出來嘛對不對內容還全部上網啊是而且這個沒有什麼機密而且要接受前面這個檢驗當然所以我將具體的要求第一個無姓公務員假打卡真上班這個事情要非常明確第二個我要更進一步要求你要前面清查勞動部這個非常惡劣的這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
836.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
844.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
一方面讓大家知道以前是出了什麼問題,更重要的以後不要讓我們勞動部的工作同仁已經那麼辛苦在工作了,假打卡正上班。 |
| IVOD_ID |
158060 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158060 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-13 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-09T14:01:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-09T14:15:21+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |