| IVOD_ID |
157951 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157951 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-05T17:50:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-05T17:57:12+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66a8e59aed318d215260bd6822b5d7f0d143e698449c70dc5012e4539fd53d17fa5ec6075ae9718d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:50:47 - 17:57:12 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查
（一）委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員張嘉郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員賴士葆等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（八）國民黨黨團擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（九）委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十）委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十一）委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十三）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十四）委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十五）委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十六）委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十七）委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十八）委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十九）委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
（二十）委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
二、併案審查
（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.502 |
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謝謝主席我請那個部長他一直在麻煩部長委員好那個部長我頭一次跟你碰面齁那我不得不全序部阿組長我們全國公務員的全序那對數字對統計計算要非常的精確了解要很堂堂的就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
40.292 |
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但是你提出一些數字來解釋但是你這些數字錯誤你等於是幫倒忙欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
87.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
欸 你的數字你知道為什麼我們年輕改革要從公務人員先改起因為軍工教保的所得替代率非常高跟我們民間勞保的差距那麼大導致民間勞工這種相對剝奪感很重但是在你的數字裡面我唸一段給你聽啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
91.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所得替代率七成高於五萬一現職人員大概有民間六萬五的八成這些講講講講到最後你說民間 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
110.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
平均勞退保合計三萬七千五 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
136.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
第一個數字你說這個勞保的部分退休金請領人數今年7月182000人請領總金額請領353億平均每個人19000你是這個數字這個數字是沒錯問題是你後續勞退的部分你完全搞錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
173.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
繞退請領690件總金額1,251萬平均每人領取18,141元。部長你搞清楚欸18,141元是三個月份欸繞退是三個月份請領一次欸你有沒有搞錯這麼明顯的錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
194.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
219.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你回去把這個數字搞清楚也就是說勞退就算有勞退的喔就算有得領勞退的三個月一次一萬八千元等於才六千元欸一個月你把勞工退休等於額外把它多出來一萬兩千元沒有那麼多欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
222.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
236.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
勞保加勞退最高領到的就是兩萬五然後75歲以上的老人家因為我們勞退是從民國92年才開始你非常清楚的啊他們根本沒有勞退你回去問你的長輩就知道那你為什麼要把勞保形容成說有三萬七千五有這麼高胡說八道 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
251.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
255.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個數字別人搞錯沒關係你不能搞錯你直施全國公務員的權序拜託你數字應該很精通不是嗎?勞退有得領的已經很少了因為過去平均我們中小企業存活年限是7年 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
280.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
296.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第11 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
298.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
324.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你回去問清楚問清楚你的手下你再來寫這一份報告可不可以差一萬二差多少欸你讓全國勞工人家他沒領那麼多的時時領的他覺得跟退休公務人員相對剝奪感那麼高而你美化了這個數字不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
326.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
328.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我覺得這個報告不及格啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
328.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
347.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
歐陽部長啦!我想您的指教我虛心接受那我在報告裡面引用的確實沒有去查引用媒體來引述勞保局的一個資料所以如果這個數字您講的是正確的話我非常道歉這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
三）委員賴士葆等 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
條文賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文賴士 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-12-05T17:50:53.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-12-05T17:50:54.483000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，我請部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-12-05T17:50:57.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:00.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
麻煩部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
施部長能傑 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:00.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:01.006000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:01.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:03.107000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長，我頭一次跟你碰面喔！對。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:05.229000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:20.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
我不得不說，銓敘部主掌全國公務員的銓敘，對數字、對統計、計算要非常精確地了解，就是要很精通就對了啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.705 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:20.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:22.343000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
但是我不客氣地送你4個字，你這個部長叫「烏龍部長」啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.091 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:22.343000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:23.829000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
怎麼說呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:23.829000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:26.131000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
光說你今天這個報告就好，在今天這份報告裡，你提出一些數字來解釋，但是這些數字錯誤！ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.486 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:26.131000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:27.292000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
你等於是幫倒忙欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:48.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-12-05T17:51:54.473000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
你知道為什麼年金改革要從公務人員先改起？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-12-05T17:51:55.594000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:09.622000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
是因為軍公教的所得替代率非常高，跟民間勞保的差距那麼大，導致民間勞工這種相對剝奪感很重。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:11.022000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:14.964000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
但是就你提出的數字，我唸一段給你聽啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.824 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:18.301000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:21.062000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
你說所得替代率有七成高於5萬1啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:23.443000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:27.485000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
然後現職人員大概有民間6萬5的八成。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:29.306000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:36.726000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
再講到最後，你說民間平均勞退保合計3萬7,500──這就是一個烏龍、錯誤的數字啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.485 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:36.726000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:43.508000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
民間有哪個退休勞工有辦法領到3萬7,500？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:43.508000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:50.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
你講給我聽！ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:50.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-12-05T17:52:57.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
我現在講實際數字，你錯在哪裡你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-12-05T17:52:57.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:03.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
對於今年勞保局提供、公告的數字，你自己搞錯啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:03.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:11.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
第一個數字，勞保部分的退休金請領人數，你說在今年7月有18萬2,000人請領，總金額是請領353億元，平均每個人1萬9,000，你說的是這個數字。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:11.481000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:13.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
好，這個數字是沒錯。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:13.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:14.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
問題是在後續勞退部分，你完全搞錯！ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:32.460000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:36.242000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
你說勞退請領690件，總金額1,251萬元，平均每人領取1萬8,141元。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.682 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:36.462000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:37.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
部長，你要搞清楚欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:37.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:38.242000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
1萬8,141元是3個月份欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:38.242000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:39.443000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
勞退是3個月份請領一次欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:39.443000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:40.243000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
你有沒有搞錯？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-12-05T17:53:40.243000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-12-05T17:53:40.383000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
這麼明顯的錯誤！ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:01.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:02.665000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
你回去把這個數字搞清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:03.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:16.792000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
也就是說，就算有勞退、就算有得領勞退的，3個月領一次1萬8,000元，等於才6000元一個月欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:18.593000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:26.937000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
你等於額外把退休勞工多算了1萬2,000元，但沒有那麼多欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.652 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:29.621000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:32.544000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
勞保加勞退最高領到的就是2萬5,000！ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:33.604000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:40.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
然後，對於75歲以上的老人家來說，因為勞退是從民國92年才開始，你非常清楚啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.871 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:42.191000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:42.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
他們根本沒有勞退！ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:42.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:42.572000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
你回去問你的長輩就知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:42.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:43.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
那你為什麼要把勞保年金形容成有3萬7,500那麼高？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:43.272000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:43.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
胡說八道！ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:58.954000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-12-05T17:54:59.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
這個數字別人搞錯沒關係，你不能搞錯！ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-12-05T17:54:59.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-12-05T17:55:00.475000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
你職司全國公務員的銓敘，拜託，你對於數字應該很精通，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-12-05T17:55:00.475000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-12-05T17:55:28.713000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
勞退有得領的已經很少了，因為過去中小企業的平均存活年限是7年，過去可以領到勞退的，必須是終身都在唯一一家公司、唯一一個老闆，所以絕大多數勞工們沒有勞退金可以領，你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.338 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-12-05T17:55:28.713000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-12-05T17:55:45.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
更何況領取是3個月一次！ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-12-05T17:55:45.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-12-05T17:55:52.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
你回去問清楚，問清楚你的手下再來寫這一份報告，可不可以？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-12-05T17:55:53.117000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-12-05T17:55:57.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
差1萬2,000就差多少欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-12-05T17:55:58.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:11.930000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
全國勞工沒領那麼多，實質領的金額相對於退休公務人員，讓他覺得相對剝奪感那麼高，你卻美化了這個數字，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:13.519000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:15.020000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
所以我覺得這份報告不及格啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:16.101000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:16.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
「烏龍部長」啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
施部長能傑 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:20.165000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:34.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
委員，您的指教我虛心接受，我在報告裡面引用的確實沒有查證，而是引用媒體引述勞保局的資料，所以如果您講的這個數字是正確的話，我為我這個數字非常抱歉。喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.779 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:34.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:35.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
原來銓敘部是引用媒體的數字？天啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
施部長能傑 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:35.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:36.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
因為媒體是用勞保局的說法，我沒有再查證一次這個部分。天啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:36.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:37.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
你引用媒體？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:37.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:38.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
我還以為你是跟勞保局調的數字。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
施部長能傑 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:38.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:39.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
因為媒體是引用勞保局的數字。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:39.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:40.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我以為你問好了勞保局這個數字是多少，原來你是抄媒體的數字？天啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:40.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:41.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
你愈答復愈糟糕！ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:41.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:42.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
你真的是……對你自己也是愈幫愈忙。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
王委員世堅 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:42.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:43.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
好，烏龍部長啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:35.670000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:35.750000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
謝謝王委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:36.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:39.678571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:39.978571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-12-05T17:56:50.264286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-12-05T17:56:50.564286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-12-05T17:57:04.564286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
委員林德福、謝龍介、柯志恩、涂權吉、沈發惠、張智倫、傅崐萁所提書面質詢均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面回復。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.02 |
| gazette.lineno |
1945 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（17時50分）謝謝主席，我請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
施部長能傑：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員世堅：部長，我頭一次跟你碰面喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
施部長能傑：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：我不得不說，銓敘部主掌全國公務員的銓敘，對數字、對統計、計算要非常精確地了解，就是要很精通就對了啦！但是我不客氣地送你4個字，你這個部長叫「烏龍部長」啊！怎麼說呢？光說你今天這個報告就好，在今天這份報告裡，你提出一些數字來解釋，但是這些數字錯誤！你等於是幫倒忙欸！你知道為什麼年金改革要從公務人員先改起？是因為軍公教的所得替代率非常高，跟民間勞保的差距那麼大，導致民間勞工這種相對剝奪感很重。但是就你提出的數字，我唸一段給你聽啦！你說所得替代率有七成高於5萬1啦！然後現職人員大概有民間6萬5的八成。再講到最後，你說民間平均勞退保合計3萬7,500──這就是一個烏龍、錯誤的數字啊！民間有哪個退休勞工有辦法領到3萬7,500？你講給我聽！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
我現在講實際數字，你錯在哪裡你知道嗎？對於今年勞保局提供、公告的數字，你自己搞錯啦！第一個數字，勞保部分的退休金請領人數，你說在今年7月有18萬2,000人請領，總金額是請領353億元，平均每個人1萬9,000，你說的是這個數字。好，這個數字是沒錯。問題是在後續勞退部分，你完全搞錯！你說勞退請領690件，總金額1,251萬元，平均每人領取1萬8,141元。部長，你要搞清楚欸！1萬8,141元是3個月份欸！勞退是3個月份請領一次欸！你有沒有搞錯？這麼明顯的錯誤！你回去把這個數字搞清楚。也就是說，就算有勞退、就算有得領勞退的，3個月領一次1萬8,000元，等於才6000元一個月欸！你等於額外把退休勞工多算了1萬2,000元，但沒有那麼多欸！勞保加勞退最高領到的就是2萬5,000！然後，對於75歲以上的老人家來說，因為勞退是從民國92年才開始，你非常清楚啊！他們根本沒有勞退！你回去問你的長輩就知道。那你為什麼要把勞保年金形容成有3萬7,500那麼高？胡說八道！這個數字別人搞錯沒關係，你不能搞錯！你職司全國公務員的銓敘，拜託，你對於數字應該很精通，不是嗎？勞退有得領的已經很少了，因為過去中小企業的平均存活年限是7年，過去可以領到勞退的，必須是終身都在唯一一家公司、唯一一個老闆，所以絕大多數勞工們沒有勞退金可以領，你知道嗎？更何況領取是3個月一次！你回去問清楚，問清楚你的手下再來寫這一份報告，可不可以？差1萬2,000就差多少欸！全國勞工沒領那麼多，實質領的金額相對於退休公務人員，讓他覺得相對剝奪感那麼高，你卻美化了這個數字，不是嗎？所以我覺得這份報告不及格啦！「烏龍部長」啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
施部長能傑：委員，您的指教我虛心接受，我在報告裡面引用的確實沒有查證，而是引用媒體引述勞保局的資料，所以如果您講的這個數字是正確的話，我為我這個數字非常抱歉。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：喔！原來銓敘部是引用媒體的數字？天啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
施部長能傑：因為媒體是用勞保局的說法，我沒有再查證一次這個部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：天啊！你引用媒體？我還以為你是跟勞保局調的數字。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
施部長能傑：因為媒體是引用勞保局的數字。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員世堅：我以為你問好了勞保局這個數字是多少，原來你是抄媒體的數字？天啊！你愈答復愈糟糕！你真的是……對你自己也是愈幫愈忙。好，烏龍部長啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
主席：謝謝王委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][2] |
委員林德福、謝龍介、柯志恩、涂權吉、沈發惠、張智倫、傅崐萁所提書面質詢均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面回復。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
174 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-36-18 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王義川 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
吳沛憶 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
林宜瑾 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
陳秀寳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[34] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[35] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[36] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[37] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[38] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[39] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-12-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1140301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1140301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」
案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)
委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉
郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人
擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公
務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮
軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具
「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人
員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資
遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹
法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資
遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹
法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退
休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣
撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法
第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣
撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法
第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十
八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條
文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條
文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」
案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1140301_00001 |