| IVOD_ID |
157795 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157795 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-04T11:54:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-04T12:06:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360fe7d7e0b0e66458c4a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b596651ef9928609a2109b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:54:11 - 12:06:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。） |
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徐委員好吳董事長因為董事長說政策是他嘛大方向那沒關係秘書長如果要從旁協助本席也不反對好本席首先想請問邱主委是請問昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴6小時後又很快的解嚴了您知道這個消息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.136 |
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二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.651 |
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73.901 |
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成為破壞自由民主制度的點點點。最後親愛的公民們,我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅,立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥清朝反國家勢力等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.961 |
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90.913 |
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本席想請教您啊,這種說法,我相信你們都有看新聞,所以我剛剛念,只是提示一下,我相信你了解他宣布戒嚴的理由。我想請教,這種說法,會不會有一天成為台灣宣布戒嚴的理由?您認為? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.014 |
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我想不可能因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統都堅持自由民主的憲政體制所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由沒錯所以我們要共同宣誓 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.577 |
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台灣民主法制得知不易,所以我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說,昨天發生的當時,您知道嗎?執政黨的Thread上面有一些言論今天早上又撤下了。您應該知道吧?也就是說我們的鄰居,韓國發生了動盪。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
137.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
139.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
174.163 |
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我只問你贊不贊成這種類比對於昨天韓國的局勢我們是高度關切不能拿來類比成台灣吧你就贊不贊成嘛贊成就贊成不贊成就說不贊成啊是委員我對這個那個立法院是我沒有掌握到我沒法回復謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
188.51 |
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191.391 |
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二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.307 |
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245.385 |
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入委會跟海基會存在的目的按照入委會的這個你的施政你的預算書裡面有講你們我們入委會的施政目標跟海基會也都有提到要依賴總統的政策理念以對話取代對抗以交流取代圍堵追求兩岸的共存共榮您認同吧這是你們寫的認同或不認同就可以了當然認同對 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.807 |
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262.741 |
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我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗,你們是以放話,你們不斷的挑釁對岸,不斷的放話,還有限制人民的講話。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.223 |
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292.219 |
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現在剛剛我看蘇曉慧委員也問您了自由、民主、人權、法治都一樣重要怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論剛剛很多位委員不管在野黨或執政黨的委員針對大陸青年來台我們台灣現在變成沒有言論自由啦我們要用政治的力量用這個政治我們用 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.08 |
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295.363 |
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二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.678 |
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我們不要一直的放話我現在就請教你您身為陸委會主委上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話對話不是放話有沒有對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.991 |
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342.844 |
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我想我們經常在呼籲對岸。好,那本席想請問你,您知道有兩岸熱線電話開通嗎?您知道這件事嗎?那個是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的這個……所以從這個民進黨執政以後,兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了,是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.733 |
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本席想請問有沒有你現在既然都大家都口口聲聲說要用對話取代取代我們是都敞開大門是中國大陸用政治前提好嘛那現在重點就是2015年12月30日兩岸熱線電話開通請問至今有沒有用過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.206 |
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395.123 |
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我想對岸設置的這個政治的障礙,讓兩岸沒有溝通。我們經常在呼籲對岸。就是對岸設置障礙,我們的對話一定要好好的進行,不要只是放話。因為時間的關係接著,你們說要以交流取代圍堵,交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
421.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那官方的交流我再我看了一下兩個單位的這個報告我們只看到官方交流就列三項今年一整個你來到立法院報告就列三項活動這個實在是太少了實在是太少但是呢本席要說的是我們民間的交流非常的熱絡你應該也知道好民間交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
451.088 |
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既然熱絡,那我們就要詢問我們臺海的這種政治經濟關係在你們主政之下真的是持續緊張那民間既然有社會維持和諧的互動可是我們發現今天也很多委員有質詢不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流你們的門檻越來越嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵為什麼我們優先圍堵這個兩岸的交流呢本席舉幾個例子好不好舉幾個例子你學術研討 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆啊,為什麼?就這個回答。是,跟委員報告,有關於學術交流啊,校際之間的都還在進行。你講的是兩岸這個社台機構的交流啦。沒有沒有,我在講學術喔。如果是學術交流的話,各校的學術交流都一直在進行。各種研討會、座談會都在進行。我現在不是在講進行不進行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
518.833 |
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現在民間要進行結果申請的部分你們的這個申請的這個審查的越來越嚴格比疫情之前還嚴格比如說現在要求陸委會要求15類大陸人士包含宗教文化體育學術來台從事各種專業交流需要專案申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
520.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
534.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
562.081 |
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所以從我短短的質詢我們就知道我們陸委會跟海基會我們可以好好的對話不對話就用放話然後兩岸的情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的民間一直要交流然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以這一塊就讓我們覺得大陸委員會大家知道陸委會是讓您就是陸委會這個單位跟大陸能夠做就像你們上面所寫的你要促進兩岸的和平共榮不是不斷的促進兩岸的這種挑釁或者是對立我們發現我們官方做的是這樣本席要再說明就是就像你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
591.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
619.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
假設是像客委會,客委會他是做什麼?他就是要對客家族群能夠建立一個很好的一個互動的關係。請問國會聯絡人做什麼?國會聯絡人就是要來國會,讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。如果國會聯絡人老是放話,老是造成這個行政單位跟立法院的對立,這個國會絕對就是不合格嘛。現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
620.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
622.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
637.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
665.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們有阻擾,我們會協助正常健康有序的交流。我剛剛問的你也沒有回答,剩下的時間就請你回答。你審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格?你說因為兩岸的局勢,兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
691.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
717.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我要跟委員報告所以你不是贊成民間交流嗎?結果你越來越嚴格啊沒有,是比較嚴謹,沒有嚴格啦所以啊,我跟你講,你們都用文字全部都用文字然後呢,實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流本席希望你們能夠具體改善好,謝謝謝謝,謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
720.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
722.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝徐昭偉的質詢,謝謝我們邱主委,謝謝吳董事長,謝謝羅秘書長 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:11+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:12+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席！ |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:12+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:13+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
本席有請邱主委、吳董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:13+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:14+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
請邱主委和吳董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:13.935000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:14.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
徐委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:14.716000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:17.817000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
還要請吳董事長，因為董事長說大方向的政策是他管嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.652 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:20.159000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:23.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
沒關係，秘書長如果要從旁協助，本席也不反對。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:26.182000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:41.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
本席首先想請問邱主委，昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴，6小時後又很快的解嚴了，您知道這個消息嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:41.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:42.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
是，昨天晚上大家都很清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.091 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:42.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:43.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
他宣布戒嚴的理由您知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:43.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-12-04T11:54:44.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
沒關係，本席很快地念一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-12-04T11:54:42.695000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-12-04T11:55:24.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
他的理由就是指他們的在野黨「企圖透過立法獨裁來癱瘓國家的司法和行政系統，推翻自由民主制度，本應成為自由民主基礎的國會卻成為破壞自由民主制度的……」，他講了一堆，最後是「親愛的公民們，我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅，立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥親朝反國家勢力……」。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.534 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-12-04T11:55:25.961000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-12-04T11:55:41.413000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
本席想請教您，我相信你們都有看新聞，所以我剛剛念的只是提示一下，我相信你瞭解他宣布戒嚴的理由，我想請教，您認為這種說法會不會有一天成為臺灣宣布戒嚴的理由？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-12-04T11:55:43.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-12-04T11:55:48.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
我想不可能，因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統…… |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-12-04T11:55:48.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-12-04T11:55:49.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
好，你覺得不可能就可以了，我只要問你可不可能。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-12-04T11:55:48.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-12-04T11:55:52.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
都堅持自由民主的憲政體制。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-12-04T11:55:52.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-12-04T11:55:54.907000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
你如果這樣繼續講，我要要求暫停時間。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-12-04T11:55:54.907000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:09.440000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由，沒錯，所以我們要共同宣示臺灣民主法治得之不易，我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:09.440000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:15.043000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說，昨天發生的當時，您知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:15.043000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:22.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
執政黨的Threads上面有一些言論，今天早上又撤下，您應該知道吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.968 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:23.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:24.088000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
也就是說我們的鄰居韓國發生了動盪，我們不該幸災樂禍！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:24.088000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:29.129167+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我們不應該幸災樂禍！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:29.129167+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:34.170333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
我們更應該謹言慎行，怎麼會這樣po文後接著今天凌晨還是什麼時候又撤下？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:34.170333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:39.211500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
而且把韓國拿來比喻成臺灣是非常不適當的。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:39.211500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:44.252667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
所以請問主委，你是不是也不贊成這種比喻？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:44.252667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:49.293833+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
把韓國昨天的情況拿來比喻臺灣。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:49.293833+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:54.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
報告委員，因為我們…… |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:54.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-12-04T11:56:58.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我只問你贊不贊成這種類比？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-12-04T11:56:59.239000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:01.721000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
對於昨天韓國的局勢，我們是高度關切，持續密注。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:02.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:02.341000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
所以不能拿來類比成臺灣吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:02.401000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:02.541000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
你就說贊不贊成嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:02.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:03.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
贊成就贊成、不贊成就說不贊成。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:03.682000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:04.062000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
委員，我對這個沒有掌握到，沒有辦法回復。謝謝！ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.368 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:04.062000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:06.040500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
你沒有掌握到，我現在就問你，昨天韓國的這種情況如果有人拿來類比成臺灣，你認同這種類比嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.15 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:06.040500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:08.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
不可能啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:08.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:09.997500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
我想我們…… |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:09.997500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:11.976000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
不是可不可能，我說如果…… |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:11.976000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:13.954500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
各政黨的基因都堅守自由民主的憲政。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:13.954500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:15.933000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
你不要浪費我的時間，我現在沒有說誰，我現在說的是如果有人拿來類比成臺灣，您贊同嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.027 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:15.933000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:17.911500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
不贊同吧？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:17.911500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-12-04T11:57:19.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
好，OK！ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-12-04T11:57:19.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-12-04T11:58:12.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
接著本席要就我們陸委會跟海基會存在的目的來請教，陸委會的預算書裡面有講到，陸委會的施政目標和海基會也都有提到，要以賴總統的政策理念，以對話取代對抗，以交流取代圍堵，追求兩岸的共存共榮，您認同吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.82 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-12-04T11:58:13.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-12-04T11:58:15.705000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
這是你們寫的，只要答認同或不認同就可以了。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.842 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-12-04T11:58:16.165000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-12-04T11:58:16.365000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
當然認同。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-12-04T11:58:17.807000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-12-04T11:58:33.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗，你們是以放話，你們不斷的挑釁對岸，不斷的放話，還有限制人民的講話。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-12-04T11:58:37.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-12-04T11:58:49.031000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
剛剛我看蘇巧慧委員也問過您，自由、民主、人權、法治都一樣重要，怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-12-04T11:58:49.031000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-12-04T11:58:57.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
剛剛很多位委員，不管在野黨或執政黨的委員，針對大陸青年來臺，我們臺灣現在變成沒有言論自由啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-12-04T11:58:57.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:01.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
我們要用政治的力量，用政權箝制人民的言論自由！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.524 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:01.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:02.929500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
既然是自由民主的國家、自由民主的社會，我們就應該要有言論自由。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.071 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:02.929500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:04.080000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
這是第一點，本席沒有要你回應。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:04.080000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:32.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
第二個，講到以對話取代對抗，我們不要一直放話，我現在就請教你，您身為陸委會主委，上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.766 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:32.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:33.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
是對話，不是放話噢！ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:33.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:33.678000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
有沒有對話？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:34.991000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:36.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我想我們…… |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:36.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:37.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
有或沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:36.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:37.813000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
我們經常在呼籲對岸相向而行。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.538 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:38.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:43.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
好，本席想請問，您知道有開通兩岸熱線電話嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:43.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:46.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
您知道這件事嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:46.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:49.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
那是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的熱線。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-12-04T11:59:50.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-12-04T11:59:53.844000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
所以從民進黨執政以後，兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了，是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:00.738000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:02.439000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
本席想請問，有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:02.719000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:07.122000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
現在既然大家都口口聲聲說要用對話取代…… |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:08.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:12.826000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
兩岸的溝通、對話，我們都敞開大門，是中國大陸用政治前提…… |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.708 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:12.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:22.733000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
好嘛，那現在重點就是2015年12月30日兩岸熱線電話開通，請問，至今有沒有用過？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:24.827000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:30.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
對岸設置了政治的障礙，讓兩岸沒有溝通，我們儘量在呼籲對岸…… |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:30.891000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:33.313000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
所以你看，你不斷地放話說就是對岸設置障礙。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.421 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:33.313000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-12-04T12:00:38.497000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
我們的對話一定要好好地進行，不要只是放話。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-12-04T12:00:38.497000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-12-04T12:01:05.439000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
因為時間的關係，接著你們說要以交流取代圍堵，交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流，那官方的交流，我看了一下兩個單位的報告，只看到官方交流今年就列三項，你來到立法院報告，就列三項活動，這實在是太少了，實在是太少！ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2024-12-04T12:01:05.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2024-12-04T12:01:10.983000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
但是本席要說的是，我們民間交流非常熱絡，你應該也知道。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2024-12-04T12:01:11.624000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2024-12-04T12:01:50.055000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
好，民間交流既然熱絡，那我們就要詢問了，我們臺海這種政治、經濟關係，在你們主政之下，真的是持續緊張，民間社會雖然維持和諧的互動，可是我們發現，今天也有很多委員有質詢，不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流，你們的門檻越來越嚴格，你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵，那為什麼我們優先圍堵兩岸的交流呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2024-12-04T12:01:50.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:02.791000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
本席舉幾個例子，學術研討在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆，為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:02.791000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:03.671000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
你就這個回答。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:03.952000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:12.798000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
跟委員報告，有關於學術交流，校際之間的都還在進行，你講的是兩岸涉臺機構的交流…… |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:13.118000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:13.659000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
沒有，沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:13.839000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:15.160000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
我在講學術，就是舉辦學術研討會。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.357 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:15.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:20.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
如果是學術交流的研討會，各校的學術交流都一直在進行。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:20.804000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:22.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
各種研討會、座談會都一直在進行。不是。 |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:22.586000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:49.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
我現在不是在講進行不進行，現在民間要進行，結果申請時你們的審查越來越嚴格，比疫情之前還嚴格，譬如說，現在陸委會要求15類大陸人士，包含宗教、文化、體育、學術，來臺從事各種專業交流，需要專案申請。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.976 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:49.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2024-12-04T12:02:55.063000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
疫情之前都沒有那麼繁複的行政程序，為什麼現在特別繁複呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2024-12-04T12:02:55.063000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2024-12-04T12:03:00.293000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
所以你們說一套做一套，這樣真的不好。沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2024-12-04T12:03:00.293000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2024-12-04T12:03:05.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
現在因為兩岸情勢也改變，過去在疫情前，解放軍的軍機飛越海峽中間都很少，現在是天天在我們周圍軍機艦擾臺。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2024-12-04T12:03:05.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2024-12-04T12:03:26.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
所以從我短短的質詢，我們就知道，我們的陸委會跟海基會可以好好地對話卻不對話，就用放話，然後兩岸情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的…… |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2024-12-04T12:03:26.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2024-12-04T12:03:27.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
我想是對岸！ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2024-12-04T12:03:27.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2024-12-04T12:03:59.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
民間一直要交流，然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋，所以這一塊就讓我們覺得，大家知道，就像你們所寫的，陸委會這個單位是要促進兩岸的和平共榮，而不是不斷地促進兩岸的挑釁或對立，我們發現我們官方做的是這樣！ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.898 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2024-12-04T12:03:59.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:05.642000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
本席要再說明的就是，像客委會，客委會是做什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:05.862000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:13.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
就是要對客家族群建立一個很好的互動關係。 |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:13.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:14.145000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
請問，國會聯絡人做什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:14.145000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:19.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
國會聯絡人就是要來國會，讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。 |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:19.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:28.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
如果國會聯絡人老是放話，老是造成行政單位跟立法院對立，這個國會聯絡人絕對就是不合格嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:29.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:30.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣，你們做出來的情況，讓民間感嘆…… |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:30.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:42.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
委員，我們是對等、尊嚴、健康、有序、正常的交流，我們都持續推動。 |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:42.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2024-12-04T12:04:53.826000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
我看到你們寫得非常冠冕堂皇，我說的這個都是學界，因為學術交流不會受政治影響，他們持續交流，您本身也是學者，學者就是純粹學術，他們私底下不斷地感嘆，學者跟本席反映，陸委會變成阻止交流委員會。沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.046 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2024-12-04T12:04:53.826000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:05.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
我們都持續來協助，正向看待，給予必要的協助。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.105 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:05.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:17.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
沒有都是你們講的，可是我們的國人就強烈感受，他們辦一場研討會，而且學術上的交流很不容易，但是被官方層層阻撓，這一點本席非常…… |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:17.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:20.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
我們沒有阻撓，我們會協助正常、健康、有序的交流。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:21.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:25.984000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
我剛剛問的，你也沒有回答，現在剩下的時間就請你回答，你們審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格？ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:26.024000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:26.965000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
你說因為兩岸的局勢，那兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:43.983000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:46.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
你不是贊成民間交流嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:46.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:47.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
結果你越來越嚴格啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:47.945000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2024-12-04T12:05:51.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
沒有，是比較嚴謹，沒有嚴格啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2024-12-04T12:05:51.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2024-12-04T12:06:07.878000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
我跟你講，你們都用文字，全部都用文字，然後實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存，也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流，本席希望你們能夠具體改善。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
徐委員欣瑩 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2024-12-04T12:06:08.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2024-12-04T12:06:08.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
邱主任委員垂正 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2024-12-04T12:06:08.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2024-12-04T12:06:08.599000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
謝謝，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2024-12-04T12:06:11.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2024-12-04T12:06:13.022000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
謝謝徐召委的質詢，也謝謝我們邱主委，謝謝吳董事長，謝謝羅秘書長。 |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0.893 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2024-12-04T12:06:13.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2024-12-04T12:06:16.664857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
接下來請吳琪銘委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
2673 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：（11時54分）謝謝主席！本席有請邱主委、吳董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請邱主委和吳董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：徐委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：還要請吳董事長，因為董事長說大方向的政策是他管嘛。沒關係，秘書長如果要從旁協助，本席也不反對。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
本席首先想請問邱主委，昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴，6小時後又很快的解嚴了，您知道這個消息嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：是，昨天晚上大家都很清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：他宣布戒嚴的理由您知道嗎？沒關係，本席很快地念一下。他的理由就是指他們的在野黨「企圖透過立法獨裁來癱瘓國家的司法和行政系統，推翻自由民主制度，本應成為自由民主基礎的國會卻成為破壞自由民主制度的……」，他講了一堆，最後是「親愛的公民們，我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅，立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥親朝反國家勢力……」。本席想請教您，我相信你們都有看新聞，所以我剛剛念的只是提示一下，我相信你瞭解他宣布戒嚴的理由，我想請教，您認為這種說法會不會有一天成為臺灣宣布戒嚴的理由？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：我想不可能，因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：好，你覺得不可能就可以了，我只要問你可不可能。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：都堅持自由民主的憲政體制。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：你如果這樣繼續講，我要要求暫停時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由，沒錯，所以我們要共同宣示臺灣民主法治得之不易，我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說，昨天發生的當時，您知道嗎？執政黨的Threads上面有一些言論，今天早上又撤下，您應該知道吧？也就是說我們的鄰居韓國發生了動盪，我們不該幸災樂禍！我們不應該幸災樂禍！我們更應該謹言慎行，怎麼會這樣po文後接著今天凌晨還是什麼時候又撤下？而且把韓國拿來比喻成臺灣是非常不適當的。所以請問主委，你是不是也不贊成這種比喻？把韓國昨天的情況拿來比喻臺灣。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，因為我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：我只問你贊不贊成這種類比？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：對於昨天韓國的局勢，我們是高度關切，持續密注。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：所以不能拿來類比成臺灣吧？你就說贊不贊成嘛！贊成就贊成、不贊成就說不贊成。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：委員，我對這個沒有掌握到，沒有辦法回復。謝謝！ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：你沒有掌握到，我現在就問你，昨天韓國的這種情況如果有人拿來類比成臺灣，你認同這種類比嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：不可能啊！我想我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：不是可不可能，我說如果…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：各政黨的基因都堅守自由民主的憲政。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：你不要浪費我的時間，我現在沒有說誰，我現在說的是如果有人拿來類比成臺灣，您贊同嗎？不贊同吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：好，OK！接著本席要就我們陸委會跟海基會存在的目的來請教，陸委會的預算書裡面有講到，陸委會的施政目標和海基會也都有提到，要以賴總統的政策理念，以對話取代對抗，以交流取代圍堵，追求兩岸的共存共榮，您認同吧？這是你們寫的，只要答認同或不認同就可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：當然認同。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗，你們是以放話，你們不斷的挑釁對岸，不斷的放話，還有限制人民的講話。剛剛我看蘇巧慧委員也問過您，自由、民主、人權、法治都一樣重要，怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論呢？剛剛很多位委員，不管在野黨或執政黨的委員，針對大陸青年來臺，我們臺灣現在變成沒有言論自由啦！我們要用政治的力量，用政權箝制人民的言論自由！既然是自由民主的國家、自由民主的社會，我們就應該要有言論自由。這是第一點，本席沒有要你回應。第二個，講到以對話取代對抗，我們不要一直放話，我現在就請教你，您身為陸委會主委，上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話？是對話，不是放話噢！有沒有對話？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：我想我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：有或沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：我們經常在呼籲對岸相向而行。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：好，本席想請問，您知道有開通兩岸熱線電話嗎？您知道這件事嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：那是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的熱線。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：所以從民進黨執政以後，兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了，是嗎？本席想請問，有沒有？現在既然大家都口口聲聲說要用對話取代…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：兩岸的溝通、對話，我們都敞開大門，是中國大陸用政治前提…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：好嘛，那現在重點就是2015年12月30日兩岸熱線電話開通，請問，至今有沒有用過？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：對岸設置了政治的障礙，讓兩岸沒有溝通，我們儘量在呼籲對岸…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：所以你看，你不斷地放話說就是對岸設置障礙。我們的對話一定要好好地進行，不要只是放話。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][1] |
因為時間的關係，接著你們說要以交流取代圍堵，交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流，那官方的交流，我看了一下兩個單位的報告，只看到官方交流今年就列三項，你來到立法院報告，就列三項活動，這實在是太少了，實在是太少！但是本席要說的是，我們民間交流非常熱絡，你應該也知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：好，民間交流既然熱絡，那我們就要詢問了，我們臺海這種政治、經濟關係，在你們主政之下，真的是持續緊張，民間社會雖然維持和諧的互動，可是我們發現，今天也有很多委員有質詢，不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流，你們的門檻越來越嚴格，你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵，那為什麼我們優先圍堵兩岸的交流呢？本席舉幾個例子，學術研討在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆，為什麼？你就這個回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：是。跟委員報告，有關於學術交流，校際之間的都還在進行，你講的是兩岸涉臺機構的交流…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：沒有，沒有。我在講學術，就是舉辦學術研討會。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：如果是學術交流的研討會，各校的學術交流都一直在進行。各種研討會、座談會都一直在進行。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：不是。我現在不是在講進行不進行，現在民間要進行，結果申請時你們的審查越來越嚴格，比疫情之前還嚴格，譬如說，現在陸委會要求15類大陸人士，包含宗教、文化、體育、學術，來臺從事各種專業交流，需要專案申請。疫情之前都沒有那麼繁複的行政程序，為什麼現在特別繁複呢？所以你們說一套做一套，這樣真的不好。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：沒有。現在因為兩岸情勢也改變，過去在疫情前，解放軍的軍機飛越海峽中間都很少，現在是天天在我們周圍軍機艦擾臺。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：所以從我短短的質詢，我們就知道，我們的陸委會跟海基會可以好好地對話卻不對話，就用放話，然後兩岸情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：我想是對岸！ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：民間一直要交流，然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋，所以這一塊就讓我們覺得，大家知道，就像你們所寫的，陸委會這個單位是要促進兩岸的和平共榮，而不是不斷地促進兩岸的挑釁或對立，我們發現我們官方做的是這樣！本席要再說明的就是，像客委會，客委會是做什麼？就是要對客家族群建立一個很好的互動關係。請問，國會聯絡人做什麼？國會聯絡人就是要來國會，讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。如果國會聯絡人老是放話，老是造成行政單位跟立法院對立，這個國會聯絡人絕對就是不合格嘛。現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣，你們做出來的情況，讓民間感嘆…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們是對等、尊嚴、健康、有序、正常的交流，我們都持續推動。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：我看到你們寫得非常冠冕堂皇，我說的這個都是學界，因為學術交流不會受政治影響，他們持續交流，您本身也是學者，學者就是純粹學術，他們私底下不斷地感嘆，學者跟本席反映，陸委會變成阻止交流委員會。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：沒有。我們都持續來協助，正向看待，給予必要的協助。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：沒有都是你們講的，可是我們的國人就強烈感受，他們辦一場研討會，而且學術上的交流很不容易，但是被官方層層阻撓，這一點本席非常…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有阻撓，我們會協助正常、健康、有序的交流。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：我剛剛問的，你也沒有回答，現在剩下的時間就請你回答，你們審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格？你說因為兩岸的局勢，那兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣？你不是贊成民間交流嗎？結果你越來越嚴格啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：沒有，是比較嚴謹，沒有嚴格啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
徐委員欣瑩：我跟你講，你們都用文字，全部都用文字，然後實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存，也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流，本席希望你們能夠具體改善。好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
邱主任委員垂正：謝謝，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：謝謝徐召委的質詢，也謝謝我們邱主委，謝謝吳董事長，謝謝羅秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][1] |
接下來請吳琪銘委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
248 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-15-13 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王義川 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-12-04 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11311101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11311101_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法
人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進
會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11311101_00001 |