iVOD / 157585

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video_url https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9b765842ec257966b3c451f2c7cf79c9768d6645aa7846736f2411ecd13e000b10bd954f519c80315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8
委員名稱 郭國文
委員發言時間 10:05:19 - 10:18:09
影片長度 770
會議時間 2024-11-28T09:00:00+08:00
會議名稱 立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議(事由:一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告,並備質詢。 二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計處、審計部高雄市審計處部分。(詢答及處理) 三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金。(詢答及處理) 【預算提案截止時間:11月26日(二)中午12時】 【11月25日及28日二天一次會】)
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transcript.whisperx[0].start 3.007
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transcript.whisperx[0].text 現在主席有請主計長跟審計長主計長跟審計長審計長委員好
transcript.whisperx[1].start 16.117
transcript.whisperx[1].end 42.14
transcript.whisperx[1].text 主席長前兩天主計總處有公開一個記者會就是說我們這一個薪資的差距指標這個中位數的部分呢2023年的部分已經降到4.05倍也就是說2012年以來降低的新低嘛對不對某個程度就是說我們貧富差距似乎已經有緩和改善
transcript.whisperx[2].start 43.081
transcript.whisperx[2].end 50.809
transcript.whisperx[2].text 當然我是覺得個人一直認為這個薪資的指標這個非常重要你有沒有信心將來在2024之後低於這一個市啊
transcript.whisperx[3].start 51.601
transcript.whisperx[3].end 80.096
transcript.whisperx[3].text 事實上這個貧富的一個差距我們也一直都有在努力所以有很多的移轉支出也是讓他的一個一個差距在縮小那所以目前我們都是從縮小的一個狀態來因為本席是要就較於您的是部分因為前天就是卓院長有提到所謂的二上一下一平衡的數據經濟成長上人均GDP上然後呢失業率下然後GPI一平
transcript.whisperx[4].start 80.256
transcript.whisperx[4].end 84.858
transcript.whisperx[4].text 審計部、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市審計
transcript.whisperx[5].start 98.763
transcript.whisperx[5].end 118.311
transcript.whisperx[5].text 主計總處能不能把這個列為你們今天來統計最重要的5個指標好不好第一個就要跟主計長說明了這個有些相關指標其實是非常重要也讓院長知道一下還有一個貧富差距指標是重要的麻煩做一個轉達主計長你稍作休息一下我問一下審計長
transcript.whisperx[6].start 123.525
transcript.whisperx[6].end 144.634
transcript.whisperx[6].text 審議長,本席就效於您最近的政府機關不論是中央跟地方都收到許許多多霸凌的事件特別本席在開完記者會之後就收到很多檢舉特別是公部門我問你一下審計部門當中到底有沒有察覺這個問題
transcript.whisperx[7].start 146.482
transcript.whisperx[7].end 158.293
transcript.whisperx[7].text 您有沒有做過類似的這個這個調查報告有沒有這個我們向委員坦白一下因為這個和財務上的關聯性不是那麼強所以我們要查核的數項還蠻多的但是
transcript.whisperx[8].start 168.322
transcript.whisperx[8].end 190.837
transcript.whisperx[8].text 今天發現這一個可能我們也會可能因為這個好像還蠻普遍的所以我們會來就這一個進行專案調查專案調查對我還沒問你你就知道我要問什麼了你算很聰明有時候財務上沒有關係財跟人有關聯這是人的問題對不對
transcript.whisperx[9].start 195.312
transcript.whisperx[9].end 222.484
transcript.whisperx[9].text 財跟預算事情人、財、市這三件事情都有關聯啊人要依財去執行事情啊不是嗎那人出了問題的時候跟你有沒有審計有沒有關聯以這樣的看法就是應該有關聯更何況啊你知道嗎人事總處啊你要先去做一個審計調查啦人事總處居然啊公布一個所謂的反霸凌的這個行政規範公布完之後就跟他沒事了
transcript.whisperx[10].start 223.601
transcript.whisperx[10].end 249.816
transcript.whisperx[10].text 任何一個單位有沒有做這一個那個人事指引相關的指引都沒有他都不曉得一問三不知記者會現場還跟法務部互踢皮球真的是醜態百出啊所以我是覺得審計長你應該要把這個列入一個很重要的重點什麼時候要提出報告你不會半年之後才提出吧還是一年之後
transcript.whisperx[11].start 252.329
transcript.whisperx[11].end 252.689
transcript.whisperx[11].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[12].start 267.409
transcript.whisperx[12].end 284.567
transcript.whisperx[12].text 心態、文化各種方面要切入另外一個部分跟你也有相關你知道最近的整個霸凌事件也有人講說可能是跟人力上有關聯就是人力分配不足那我就牽扯到總原額法
transcript.whisperx[13].start 285.268
transcript.whisperx[13].end 304.915
transcript.whisperx[13].text 我們那個總原額法的部分是在2000年的時候通過但是20多年前的產物扣除掉這一個有一次從17萬3降到16萬9的部分然後呢你又增加了司法人力1100的部分然後你又把公立醫院去除掉大概目前要控管的人數大概是14萬
transcript.whisperx[14].start 307.256
transcript.whisperx[14].end 322.341
transcript.whisperx[14].text 14萬的情況人事總部要控制14萬可是這個總額原法是在25年前那時候流行這個小政府的這個做法的情況底下所訂定的可是這幾年以來啊凡事都希望政府多做一點
transcript.whisperx[15].start 324.442
transcript.whisperx[15].end 346.088
transcript.whisperx[15].text 業務新增或者是虛擬世界的所造成的對實體世界的一些衝擊的業務也增加很多這種情況底下結果控管人額卻不斷的外包控管人額卻不斷的這個委外的情況底下這業務沒有少啊那個 審計長我想請問你一下
transcript.whisperx[16].start 347.253
transcript.whisperx[16].end 363.677
transcript.whisperx[16].text 這一個人事的這個部分要不要做一個全面性的一個檢討它的編制、原額還有實際聘用的原額那實際人力配置的原額有沒有合理化委員這個是一個要務實面對的一個問題現在好像總研的法是16萬人左右但是
transcript.whisperx[17].start 374.694
transcript.whisperx[17].end 380.678
transcript.whisperx[17].text 實際也控制在十幾萬、十三萬人但是他的臨時人員有六萬人加起來就超過二十萬人所以他臨時人員加就往這邊走所以我的想法
transcript.whisperx[18].start 402.298
transcript.whisperx[18].end 417.148
transcript.whisperx[18].text 那要不要好好檢討?要不要好好檢討嘛?好,我們會去查。好,那又要叫你寫報告了是不是?對,但是啊,我要多久?要不到人。要多久?要多久?你要寫那個可以執行的報告,你要不要寫痛不癢的啊?我不會!
transcript.whisperx[19].start 419.037
transcript.whisperx[19].end 445.409
transcript.whisperx[19].text 我們出來都是...如果你寫的都不痛不癢那審計就不是在審計了你知道嗎對 我們會...好不好我們會記住以告好好好 那我再請主計長下來一下你稍微休息一下主計長時間先暫停一下主計長好 時間暫停來 來來來 那個主計長另外一個部分你知道那個...那個國民黨的這個財法法的部分讓我們經費都要大砍
transcript.whisperx[20].start 448.322
transcript.whisperx[20].end 450.718
transcript.whisperx[20].text 你看這邊哪一個最有可能被砍的
transcript.whisperx[21].start 453.39
transcript.whisperx[21].end 478.988
transcript.whisperx[21].text 因為我們現在目前也不知道說整個的一個需求要等到115年如果說實際在審查的時候才看那原則上因為你要為以籌謀啊是是是所以我們原則上現在有初步也跟各部會來我覺得讓你看一下體育經費好了你看我們這次台灣隊12強拿到世界冠軍情收的經費都起了很大的作用那個明年我們體育署編了44億那還有28億的國家體育建設
transcript.whisperx[22].start 483.291
transcript.whisperx[22].end 485.937
transcript.whisperx[22].text 那如果照這個財法法通過的話那我們還會有這麼多錢嗎?
transcript.whisperx[23].start 488.868
transcript.whisperx[23].end 518.148
transcript.whisperx[23].text 要對半砍要對半砍對如果按照國民黨這個版本的話體育補助都對半砍的話那我們還有機會拿到冠軍嗎?搞不好連這個這些球員的獎金都要對半喔原來700萬要變350嘛原則上都是這樣都會對半嘛所以球員獎金就會對半嘛所以說這個知識體大臺灣將來有沒有拿到冠軍啊跟這個預算有直接的關聯性嘛對不對
transcript.whisperx[24].start 520.889
transcript.whisperx[24].end 543.996
transcript.whisperx[24].text 我就教你這個問題你們要點出來這個問題點很大有人在做禍國殃民的這個法案的時候你們真的要慎重遲遲的提醒因為這樣子的一個版本大概可能將來我們在預算編列是有很大的一個困難因為等於說大部分都要兌半減但是有一些相關很重要的部分剛剛的說體育建設
transcript.whisperx[25].start 545.716
transcript.whisperx[25].end 551.979
transcript.whisperx[25].text 體育建設28億、剩下14億、體育署14億變12億、體育發展那球員的獎金7千萬就變3千5嘛而且相對的一個市權也沒有移轉像原來老人基金貼包括全民健保1074億市權沒有移轉老人基金貼還有這個國立高中職、老人基金貼、健保
transcript.whisperx[26].start 573.49
transcript.whisperx[26].end 597.836
transcript.whisperx[26].text 都是我們在附大問題。都是大問題。好,那我就看一下嘛。你剛剛講的我就幫你做表做好了。是。債務複習嘛。金沈厚都是中央嘛。公共建設也是中央嘛。老農津貼嘛。還有直接補助縣市政府的。是。這裡頭有一個問題點。我必須說預算法第91條的時候大幅增加稅出稅入的時候要先徵詢行政院的意見。他們要先問你們的意見。
transcript.whisperx[27].start 599.059
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transcript.whisperx[27].text 這是第一個嘛第二個如果萬一問題出現的時候是不是應該提案修正對不對這有沒有不曉得預算來源在哪裡還有預算法除了91條之外還有一個很重要以後如果真的給地方比較多的錢那地方的這個預算怎麼編怎麼用現在沒有直接的法令規範
transcript.whisperx[28].start 625.063
transcript.whisperx[28].end 648.513
transcript.whisperx[28].text 有沒有沒有現在是用預算法而已對不對是可是預算法第96條的時候有一個地方政府預算應以法律定之現在有這個法律嗎沒有有一個地方他現在目前就只有一個地方制度法還有那個地方制度法是要修這長期本席的主當是不是也應該制定一個地方預算法
transcript.whisperx[29].start 657.374
transcript.whisperx[29].end 674.768
transcript.whisperx[29].text 對目前我們是這樣子因為這個相關的預算的一個籌編的部分它是在地制法裡面有規範但是其他的部分我們在總預算中央總預算籌編的時候會對地方做一些的規範但是事實上是真的沒有在法律上做一個大臉的規範
transcript.whisperx[30].start 676.209
transcript.whisperx[30].end 694.02
transcript.whisperx[30].text 如果毫無節制的任由他去使用這些預算的話那財政機率會更加的敗壞不是嗎所以我就問你嘛就96條的部分如果萬一有這個趨勢一直走下去的話畢竟立法院的生態就這樣子是不是應該制定一個地方預算法嗎
transcript.whisperx[31].start 695.344
transcript.whisperx[31].end 717.158
transcript.whisperx[31].text 多層次的規範嘛你們思考一下好不好你們思考一下評估一下兩個禮拜給本席一個答覆應該用透過地方預算法根據預算法96條的部分來訂定來做一個規範規範地方政府預算怎麼用怎麼編可不可以
transcript.whisperx[32].start 718.538
transcript.whisperx[32].end 745.236
transcript.whisperx[32].text 兩個禮拜你這個如果沒有編的話我現在想齁這個禍國殃民的法案齁如果通過的話真的後患無窮啊主席長我建議你最好要編啊因為地方制度法老師說齁什麼時候修法也不清楚他們就只是想要搶錢而已可是地方預算法如果讓他們毫無理智的通過地方預算法照至少一個一個規範因為以前的預算規範是在行政部門的內部監督嘛
transcript.whisperx[33].start 748.018
transcript.whisperx[33].end 748.399
transcript.whisperx[33].text 主席主席國文
IVOD_ID 157585
IVOD_URL https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157585
日期 2024-11-28
會議資料.會議代碼 委員會-11-2-20-10
會議資料.屆 11
會議資料.會期 2
會議資料.會次 10
會議資料.種類 委員會
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] 20
會議資料.標題 第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議
影片種類 Clip
開始時間 2024-11-28T10:05:19+08:00
結束時間 2024-11-28T10:18:09+08:00
支援功能[0] ai-transcript