| IVOD_ID |
157581 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157581 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-28T09:52:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-28T10:05:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9b765842ec257966eb23f6c968eb08f9768d6645aa7846736f2411ecd13e000b65024ebfa9e6d7965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:52:02 - 10:05:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計處、審計部高雄市審計處部分。（詢答及處理）
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金。（詢答及處理）
【預算提案截止時間：11月26日（二）中午12時】
【11月25日及28日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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有請主計長主計長委員好主計長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個針對美國的總總統川普說要針對十大的進口國都賺美國很多錢包括最多的墨西哥、中國大陸、加拿大、德國等等臺灣在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
51.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
審計部臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
會有影響嗎?你有沒有估算過?他如果課10%或多少?這個部分目前還沒有,因為大概他影響數會產生在影響會在115年來顯現那這個部分到時候我們也會進行估算,相關的一個估算現在還沒有估算?對臺灣是利多還利空? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
應該都有啦兼併啦不是說一次都是利空或者是利多這樣子還是應該各種不同的產業不一樣可是我們的其他官員都說是利多咧說啊都靠別人的所以台灣不會扣到都轉單給我們這絕對是利多影響的層面目前還必須要再觀察啦會不會有全程、全球的通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
呃這個部分也是應該要看後面他一個整個的你是說1997年亞洲金融風暴怎麼產生的嗎?泰國豬開始大幅貶值貶了50%亞洲的貨幣全部近鄉相貶產生亞洲金融風暴現在看起來會有這個味道喔因為中國大陸已經說了如果美國真的真的課 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不要多20%以上的關稅他們GDP會減少一趴中國大陸他們就用貶值啊人民幣貶值來跟你對付各國都會你扣我關稅我就貶給你看讓我的東西相對便宜你幫我加關稅嘛我就貶給你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以這邊是全球會競相的貶他的貨幣以至於你可以看喔從川普當選到現在幾乎美金獨搶道理在這裡我很擔心啊各國的貨幣競相的銷貶臺幣最近在貶啊臺幣在貶啊這個你擔不擔心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
224.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們還是應該要有積極作為啦而不是說在那邊擔心當然我們必須要事先有些相關的防範的措施那然後再看你認為今年GDP可以到多少今年GDP因為我們今年GDP大概初估當初在8月時候初估是3.9啦現在呢因為狀況現在不錯所以會往上修但是我們目前在大概應該明後天會做一個花佈所以應該今年會超過4% |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
241.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
超過4%今年CPI呢?CPI目前因為我們大概預估是2.19到2.17左右2.1 超過楊金榮總裁的百分之二目前來講因為幾個颱風連續來影響是有一點在蔬果方面我們來看請那個審計長一起上來好不好主計長先不要離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
260.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
281.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員好審計長不然那個主計長一起先問主計長是請問你啊勞動部你有沒有主計室的主任有沒有有有主計條片勞發署有沒有主計處的主任有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
282.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
295.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
北分署有沒有主計處的主任有沒有?有!好!北分署每個月3萬塊電費為了謝宜柔她就這樣整個漂亮就漂亮了這樣電費一共要開3萬你們的主計、主任是幹什麼的啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
301.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
327.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
為什麼給他用呢我們的主計各個單位的主計主任等於是擺設了首長要怎麼用就怎麼用理了不理你們而且拉發署還用安定基金400萬去辦演唱會替尋民處辦演唱會你們的主任是幹什麼的執辦的你們主任啥事也不做這個錢要經過主計是同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
331.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主計長要經過主計室同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
365.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一般電費來講的話不是因為它是業務單位提出來核銷嘛那我們就一個內部審核就它一個內容進行審查還有包括有審查嗎根本沒有審查啊這是現在的主計在各個單位的主計是形同虛設讓各個單位的首長予取予求目前是這個樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
393.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他可以用4百萬辦演唱會而且挪用了勞動基金請問可以挪用勞動基金嗎?可以嗎?這個部分就是因為他勞動基金他本身也有編列啦編列媒體的一個宣傳會啦那是媒體宣傳喔?許民村的演唱會是媒體宣傳喔?這麼偉大喔?因為他本身當初這一個在現在被剪掉調查了啊你們我們還沒有做調查結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
394.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
409.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主計、主計長啊你要去整頓一下各單位的主計是形同虛設啊是不用不好啊我們會加獎加獎這個行政單位的首長要怎麼用就怎麼用你們坑都不敢坑一聲來請教審計長好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
413.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
439.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我就請教你啊!毛暴鼠用了400萬用暗定基金可不可以?可不可以用對不對?我們在查!蛤?我們在瞭解!什麼時候可以出來?欸...查核...因為這個啊...欸...我們已經函行給他差不多...因為函行他要看他的資料來以後我們會分析、會研究、會做一個速當的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
466.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
一個北府署的署長他的裡面的弄了一些水水的這樣一個月3萬的電費你們可以接受嗎?這個我們還沒完全了解因為我們公文已經去了資料還沒來所以我大概一般什麼時候可以出來?差不多一個月內會出來一個月會的話現在檢調已經介入調查了我們會檢日如果有那個我們會訂送檢調處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
469.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
492.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你自己審計長做這麼久了,你覺得可以動用安地基金來辦演唱會嗎?可以嗎?剛剛我有做這個了解啦,他是在救安基金底下有一個科目叫促進國民就業,裡面用一個普遍科目有一個政令宣導。所以許民春去辦演唱會就政令宣導? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
520.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
521.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部新北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
564.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
還是掛羊頭賣狗咧以假借正義宣導行個人的演唱會之事這個因為沒有我們給他的公示他還沒有給我們答案這個全民關注一個月太久了兩個禮拜可以吧兩個禮拜可以吧因為審計的查爾有一定的促進啦你也不能因為我們也是希望勿忘勿重 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
565.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主計長請回答,審計部你對臺電的決算寫了40頁40信上,批評臺電你的決算報告比如說我這樣幾個,第一個離電風電成效未如預期第二個大潭電號電廠7號機 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
590.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
606.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
基礎發電低於目標,總共這樣一兩三十公尺,列了比較重要的。然後呢,你可以看喔,我們累積的虧損,當年料、時納、這個有啦,進行順利累積虧損, |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
612.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
637.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這樣的情況審計部你對於臺電我們已經前後給幾千億了大概給前面加一加到給五千億了吧還一直虧無比鬥啊他現在又要一千億的追加預算一千億的一個增資你的態度怎麼樣我們是希望臺電要強化他整個的體質 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
639.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
657.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
改善所以剛剛那個因為能源對我們很重要所以那個主要進度落後我們都提醒所以我們那裡面的一些族群進度落後的我問你啊時間到了我要你簡短回答你答應他不答應在這個時候再給他兩千億啦剛剛說這樣啦答應不答應 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
662.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
691.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為我們是希望他的體質健全以後也要他進行整個財務整個改善因為多多少少他有一些不經濟輸出像駐船會我們一查他那個一年我們可以替他省掉十幾億什麼會?那個印美的在那裡等候印美配?可以省十幾億? |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
693.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
707.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在頒認的時候我們說所以你的意思就是他沒有做好成本控制之前不應該給他這個錢我們是希望他我們是如果能夠兼顧他的整個需要希望他能夠改善他的體質 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
728.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
改善體質什麼樣體質就是它每一個多多少少都會有一些損失所以我們是有希望大數損失損失最大的就是8年來核電平均貢獻2400億它不要用核電最大的問題在這個地方在這個之前沒有解決之前不能夠給它2000億而且我再講一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
732.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
761.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他都說他可以借錢了臺電可以借錢他借的很多了他借很多了我知道借1.6億了再多不愁利息很少十幾億而已借息十幾億200多億200多億他都查過了借一那真的是全部200多億借一千億才要十幾億而已對不對那個是這樣對啦十幾億而已所以借錢借錢可以解決嗎我們希望不要用借錢解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
762.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
782.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那你要付老百姓的錢,我們不同意啊!好,謝謝!謝謝!這個,這個,審計長好好盯著臺電!你對臺電,你對他的平價40月的缺失這樣的缺失,還敢要兩千億?我一眾心腸希望我們,因為能源對我們很重要不能夠再拿那麼多錢啊!好,謝謝! |
| gazette.lineno |
316 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（9時52分）謝謝主席及各位先進。有請主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：主計長你好。美國的準總統川普說，十大進口國都賺美國很多錢，包括賺最多的墨西哥，中國大陸、加拿大、德國等等，臺灣也在裡面，針對這些國家要加課關稅，現在一般是說課10%到25%，一般估算對臺灣可能會課10%，它對臺灣目前大概是課3%左右，要加到10%，這個對GDP會不會有影響？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是會有影響，但是問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：對我們會不會有影響？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：會有影響，但是問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們沒有估算過，它如果課10%會影響多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分目前還沒有，影響會在115年來顯現，這個部分到時候我們會進行相關的估算。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在還沒有估算？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是，目前還沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：這對臺灣是利多還是利空？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：應該都有啦，兼併啦，不是說一致都是利空或者是利多這樣子，還是應該……對不同的產業影響不一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：可是其他官員都說是利多耶，他們說：都是課別人，所以臺灣不會課到，都會轉單給我們，絕對是利多。大家都這樣說。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：影響的層面目前還必須要再觀察。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：會不會有全球的通膨？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分應該也是要看後面它整個的…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：你知道1997年亞洲金融風暴怎麼產生的嗎？泰銖開始大幅貶值，貶了50%，亞洲的貨幣全部競相貶值，產生亞洲金融風暴，現在看起來有這個味道喔！中國大陸已經說了，如果美國真的加課，不要多，課20%以上的關稅，中國大陸的GDP會減少1%，他們就用人民幣貶值來對付，各國都會，你課我關稅，我就貶給你看，讓我的東西相對便宜，你加我的關稅，我就貶給你看，對不對？所以變成全球各國會競相貶值貨幣，以致於你可以看到，從川普當選到現在，幾乎美金獨強，道理在這裡。我很擔心各國的貨幣競相貶值，臺幣最近也在貶，臺幣也在貶，這個你擔不擔心？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們還是應該要有積極作為，而不是說在那邊擔心，當然，我們必須要事先有一些相關的防範措施，然後再看…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：你認為我們今年的GDP可以到多少？今年的GDP。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們今年GDP當初在8月的時候初估是3.9%…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在咧？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：因為現在的狀況不錯，所以會往上修，我們目前大概在明後天應該會發布…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以應該今年會超過4%？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：應該是有這樣的一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：超過4%。今年的CPI咧？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：CPI目前我們大概預估是2.19%到2.17%左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：2.1%，那超過楊金龍總裁的百分之二，他說2%才是安全的。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：目前來講，因為幾個颱風連續來襲，在蔬果方面是有一點影響。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，我們請審計長一起上來，好不好？主計長先不要離開。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
主席：請審計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：先問主計長，請問你，勞動部你有沒有主計室的主任，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：有，主計一條鞭。勞發署有沒有主計處的主任，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：北分署有沒有主計處的主任，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：好。北分署每個月3萬塊電費，為了謝宜容把辦公環境裝潢得漂漂亮亮，這樣電費一個月要花3萬，你們的主計主任是幹什麼的，為什麼給他用呢？我們的主計，各個單位的主計主任等於是擺設，首長要怎麼用就怎麼用，理都不理你們，而且勞發署還用就業安定基金400萬去替許銘春辦演唱會，你們的主任是幹什麼的？紙糊的？你們主任啥事也不做，這個錢要經過主計室同意的耶，主計長，要經過主計室同意的耶。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：一般電費來講的話，這個部分就…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們就不管喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：不是，因為它是業務單位提出來核銷，那我們內部審核就它的內容進行審查，還有包括…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個有審查嗎？根本就沒有審查啊！這個就是現在各個單位的主計室形同虛設，讓各個單位的首長予取予求，目前是這個樣子啊！他可以用400萬辦演唱會，而且挪用了勞動基金，請問可以挪用勞動基金嗎？可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分是因為勞動基金本身也有編列媒體的宣傳費…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個是媒體宣傳，各位，許銘春的演唱會是媒體宣傳，有這麼偉大喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是。這個部分因為它本身當初這一個在…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在被檢調調查了啦！你們…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是是，我們還是尊重調查的結果…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：主計長，你要去整頓一下，各單位主計室形同虛設，等於都無效，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是，我們會加強，加強…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：行政單位的首長要怎麼用就怎麼用，你們吭都不敢吭一聲。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][1] |
來，我請教審計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：我就請教你，勞動署用了400萬的安定基金，可不可以？科目用得對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們在查，我們在了解。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：查核這部分，我們已經函詢給它，差不多…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候會有結果？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：因為函詢要看它的資料送來以後，我們會分析、會研究，然後會做一個適當的處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：一個北分署的署長，他的辦公室裡面弄得漂漂亮亮的這樣，一個月3萬的電費，你們可以接受嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：這個部分我們還沒有完全的了解，因為我們公文已經去了，資料還沒來，所以我無法…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：大概一般什麼時候可以出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：差不多一個月會出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：一個月火就熄了，現在檢調已經介入調查了。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們會檢附，如果有違法，我們會併送檢調處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：你自己審計長做這麼久了，你覺得可以動用安定基金來辦演唱會嗎？可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：剛剛我也有就此事去了解，它是在就安基金底下有一個科目叫做「促進國民就業」裡面的用途別科目有一個「政令宣導」，這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以許銘春在辦演唱會就是政令宣導，就這樣喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：演唱會它是發包出去…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：用演唱會，他的演唱會來辦政令宣導喔，哇！這個東西…… |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：但是它那個我們看出來是，我們也有進到整個演唱會的情形去看，它是在宣傳性平工作法的一些規定後，他在後面唱了三條歌，我們都有看…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：他一個人唱35分鐘耶！政令宣導唱歌唱35分鐘叫政令宣導？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們會去了解，我們連演唱會我們也看了，我們也上去看…… |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們可以接受這個是政令宣導？你們能夠接受這是政令宣導？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：這個當然我們會整個查完以後會做…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有，你接受不接受這是政令宣導？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：因為我們會看整個內容。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：還是掛羊頭賣狗肉，假借政令宣導之名行個人的演唱會之實？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們給它的公文，它還沒有給我們答復。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個全民關注，一個月太久了，兩個禮拜可以吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：蛤？ |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：兩個禮拜可以吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：因為審計的查核有一定的程序，也不能……因為我們也是希望毋枉毋縱。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：主計長請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][1] |
審計部，你對台電的決算報告寫了40頁，批評台電，比如說第一個，離岸風電成效未如預期；第二個，大潭電廠7號機機組發電低於目標，總共這樣洋洋灑灑，我只列了比較重要的。然後你可以看累積的虧損，每年都在賠，你可以看到「吸納油氣緩漲之差額」、「稅前淨損」、「累積虧損」等項目，這樣的情況，審計部，對於台電，我們已經前後給幾千億了，全部加一加大概都有給5,000億了吧，還一直虧，無底洞啊！它現在又要1,000億的追加預算，1,000億的增資，你的態度怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們是希望台電要強化它的整個體質，要改善，因為能源對我們很重要，所以只要進度落後，我們都會提醒，所以我們報告裡面對一些執行進度落後的，我們是出於善意的提醒…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：我的時間到了，我要你簡短地回答，你答應不答應在這個時候再給它2,000億啦？簡單說這樣，答應不答應？ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：因為我們是希望它的體質健全以後，也要它進行整個財務的改善，因為多多少少它有一些不經濟支出，像滯船費我們一查，那個一年我們可以替它省掉十幾億欸。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼費？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：那個運煤的在那裡等待…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：運煤費可以省十幾億？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對，運煤的船在等待搬運的時候，我們說…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你的意思就是，它沒有做好成本控制之前，不應該給它這個錢，就這個意思？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們是希望能夠兼顧它的整個需要，也希望它能夠改善它的體質。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：改善體質，什麼樣的體質？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：就是它的每一個作業多多少少都會有一些損失，所以我們是希望…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
賴委員士葆：到處損失，損失最大的就是8年來核電應該貢獻2,400億，它不要用核電，最大的問題在這個地方，在這個問題沒有解決之前，不能夠給它2,000億啦！而且，而且我再講一遍，它都說它可以借錢，台電可以借錢…… |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：它借了很多了，它借很多了。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個我知道，借1.6億了，再借，債多不愁，利息很少，十幾億而已，利息十幾億…… |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：不只、不只，兩百多億。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
賴委員士葆：啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：兩百多億，我們都查過了…… |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，這個全部是兩百多億啦，借1,000億才要十幾億而已啦，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：那個是這樣的，是這樣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
賴委員士葆：對啦，十幾億而已啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：但是它借的錢不少了…… |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以，叫它去借錢，借錢可以解決吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們希望不要用借錢解決問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
賴委員士葆：那你要用老百姓的錢，我們不同意，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
主席：好，謝謝，謝謝賴士葆委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
賴委員士葆：審計長，好好盯著台電，你對台電的評價有多達40頁的缺失，有這樣的缺失，還敢要2,000億！ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們是語重心長，因為能源對我們也很重要，對我們的…… |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
賴委員士葆：不能夠再讓它再要錢啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
主席：好，謝謝賴士葆委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][1] |
接著請郭國文委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
170 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-20-10 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-28 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310702 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310702_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並
備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審
計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計
處、審計部高雄市審計處部分；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市
政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310702_00001 |