| IVOD_ID |
157506 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157506 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-27T11:01:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-27T11:09:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4b9db3dc7042177acefc5dfc87c7aacdaab8b86039943efc8660580be526682109fd7804f724e0895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:01:56 - 11:09:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管「考選業務基金」收支部分。
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公務人員退休撫卹基金」收支部分。
四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公教人員個人專戶制退撫儲金基金」收支部分。
五、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於考試院主管預算凍結項目共4案。
【第一案至第四案僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月3日中午12時截止收件】
【11月25日及27日兩天一次會】） |
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進行質詢主席、各位委員有請秘書長好,請秘書長委員長秘書長好這一段時間在野黨都會關心年金改革已經實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
從106年嗎?107年上路。法例通過是106年。106年修法。所以這個已經實施這麼長的時間了。然後相關的這些各方面的狀況跟以往也都不一樣。然後相關的這些當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.131 |
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我不知道你當時在哪個職我忘了就是說立法院三讀通過的公務人員教師的之前俯系這個這些法律之前退休俯系法這些法律你了不了解當初立法院通過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
92.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
140.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
參加審查一直到宴會當時當時總統府請了副總統召集了包括考試院行政院包括專家寫者討論討論出了一個版本送到立法院這個畢竟是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
171.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
173.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
199.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
考試院所屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
230.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
250.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一個25年就退休的常務次長14值等,你認為他應該領的每個月的退休金、退休分多少才是可以讓他好好的生活的?我請施部長來說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
252.694 |
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281.935 |
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我跟你們報告其實我們在討論退休金應該是兩個概念去看一個是制度面的設計一個是根據這個制度面會拿到實際上多少錢我想是這樣設計那自己拿到實際多少錢才足夠一個人的退休生活這個真的也是滿每個人不太一樣的概念啦我們就不談這個好了最起碼中華民國政府一個公務員我們就講六十等好了從六十等 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
284.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
309.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
從6指等這樣升升升升升升升到常務次長14指等還不是只有當一兩年喔當個很多年的常務次長之後這個25年以前早期25年可以退休嘛就退休了這樣高的一個我們不講生活啦這樣高的一個指等 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
311.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
339.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
結果他退休每個月的退休金如果只有4萬多塊5萬塊你說他合不合理他本來是領10萬塊每個月所以這個部分是一個西奧氣已經實施這麼多年了該檢討了那尤其是那個錦霄啊剛才秘書長的答覆我不太認同他可能不太了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
341.884 |
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369.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
現在的被提名的人為了假設他通過了立法院的他當考試院院長當初他當全系部部長的時候我質詢他我建議他他也認同錦銷的部分不應該跟他的退休啊退休不應該放在公務人員的退休之前撫恤法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
370.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
398.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
就應該放在警察人員人事條例裡面不應該拉出來這真的是不一樣不一樣的工作不一樣的這些相關我們軍人好了當初軍人有做調整因為當時的國防部部長很堅持所以有比公教警校的來得好一點點軍人的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
399.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
418.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但是如果我們現在看軍人切啊,切軍人切得很嚴重啊現在。買了這麼多高性能的武器,到時候沒有人來操作。精良的武器又有精良的國軍的軍人啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
420.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
422.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| gazette.lineno |
1115 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時2分）主席、各位委員。有請秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：秘書長好。這段時間在野黨都會關心年金改革，年金改革已經實施，從106年嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：107年上路。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：法律通過是106年嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：106年修法。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以已經實施這麼長的時間，各方面的狀況也與以往都不一樣，你當時在哪個職務我忘了，就是說立法院三讀通過的公務人員、教師的資遣撫卹這些法律，退休資遣撫卹法這些法律，你瞭不瞭解當初立法院三讀通過的版本？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：大致瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：是誰的版本？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：應該算立法院的版本。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，是段宜康委員的版本。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：應該…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，你先聽我講，因為我在場，第9屆我在場，我也在司法及法制委員會參加審查，一直到院會。當時總統府請了副總統，召集了考試院、行政院，包括專家學者，討論出一個版本送到立法院，這畢竟是一個跨部會、跨院，然後有專家學者，以總統府的高度所送出來的版本，但是第9屆那個年代是一個殺氣騰騰的年代，對軍公教、警消，所以通過的版本是段宜康的版本，這是一個事實，在這樣的一個過程當中，實施這麼多年之後是該檢討了。好，這裡有沒有常務次長？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：我們有考試院所屬部會，您是說常務次長？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，沒關係。秘書長，一個常務次長，早期是25年就可以退休嘛！然後就退休了，也沒有信賴保護啊！溯及既往啊！那些都沒有了，都不見了。你認為一個25年就退休的常務次長，14職等，你認為他每個月的退休金、退休俸，多少才是可以讓他好好地生活？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
劉秘書長建忻：我請施部長來說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
施部長能傑：其實我們在討論退休金應該是兩個概念去看，一個是制度面的設計，一個是根據這個制度面實際會拿到多少錢，我想是這樣的設計。至於實際拿到多少錢才足夠一個人的退休生活，這個真的也是滿……每個人有不太一樣的概念啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，我知道，我們就不談這個好了。最起碼中華民國政府一個公務員，我們就講6職等好了，從6職等這樣升升升，升到常務次長14職等，還不是只有當一、兩年哦！當很多年的常務次長之後，以前早期25年可以退休嘛！就退休了，這樣高的一個職等，我們不講生活啦！這樣高的一個職等，結果他每個月的退休金如果只有四萬多元、5萬元，你說合不合理？他本來是每個月領10萬元，所以這個部分需要去檢討，已經實施這麼多年了，該檢討了。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][1] |
尤其是警消，剛才秘書長的答復我不太認同，他可能不太瞭解，現在的院長被提名人周弘憲，未來假設立法院通過，他當考試院院長，當初他當銓敘部部長的時候，我質詢他、我建議他，他也認同警消的退休不應該放在公務人員退休資遣撫卹法，就應該放在警察人員人事條例裡面，不應該拉出來，因為這真的是不一樣，不一樣的工作，包括一些相關的。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][2] |
以軍人來說好了，當初軍人有做調整，因為當時的國防部部長很堅持，說軍人的部分有比公教警消來得好一點點，但是如果我們現在來看軍人，切啊！現在切軍人切得很嚴重啊！買了這麼多高性能的武器，到時候沒有人來操作，精良的武器要有精良的國軍、軍人，但是也沒有啊！所以這個部分考試院要併同地去思考，因為主席已經站起來了，這是一個很重要的議題，畢竟從107年實施到現在，真的是該檢討了，以上，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
施部長能傑：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席（鍾委員佳濱）：謝謝鄭委員，謝謝秘書長跟部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
接下來有請楊委員瓊瓔發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
476 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-36-16 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
359 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-27 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310702 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310702_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分；二、審查114年度中央政府
總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管「考選業務基金」收支部分；三、審查
114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公務人員退休撫卹
基金」收支部分；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘
部主管「公教人員個人專戶制退撫儲金基金」收支部分；五、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預
算關於考試院主管預算凍結項目共4案【第一案至第四案僅進行詢答】 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310702_00003 |