| IVOD_ID |
157468 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157468 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-27T09:47:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-27T09:58:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:19 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4b9db3dc7042177a9ff66aa4326cc5e19efc61e85f95edfbf8386334ca12ce8986b9718f63e7223e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
郭國文 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:47:50 - 09:58:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案。（詢答及處理）
【預算提案截止時間：11月26日（二）中午12時】） |
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1.617 |
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謝謝主席 有請連次長好 連次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
11.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.185 |
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市長,川普已經預告說1月20日他上任之後就要針對加拿大跟墨西哥課徵25%的這個關稅。你也知道臺商在墨西哥設廠非常多,高達258間,包括廣達、鴻海,還有包括偽創合作等大廠都在那邊。那我問一下,原先我們說要在墨西哥想要成立科學園區的想法還會繼續嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.783 |
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51.371 |
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川普這次當選我們已經跟業界有在做一些討論可是問題25%這是最新的訊息嘛 確定嘛你們的因應怎麼樣科學園區會不會繼續設會不會科學園區啦還會不會繼續想要設在墨西哥 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
65.059 |
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我看你們還沒準備好講,都是很空洞的東西,你多久可以對外說明? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.513 |
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108.114 |
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我們有做評估,我們把這個資料送給委員好不好現在1月20快到了,我再問你一下之前我問了有關於這個電廠的問題,這應該是您月管的嘛10月11、10月29民原專報兩次的回答不一樣 |
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109.772 |
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130.224 |
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您們也承認得標後再還平的話風險是高的,得標前先還平風險是低的。那風險高的原因是什麼?就是你的廠沒有辦法設立起來嘛。好,那現在出現了,在臺南的九威廠,九威這個電廠,原來要運轉的日期你知道哪一天嗎?哪一個月嗎?你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
133.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
還沒還沒你確定還沒有罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
153.387 |
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153.407 |
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市長﹖ |
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174.198 |
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187.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你不是夜館的嗎?台電不是你夜館的嗎?我不清楚你們不缺錢嗎?已經超過十幾個月了到底有沒有罰款?到底有沒有罰款啊?開始罰了沒有?真的喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
189.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
207.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們現在是依照合約他得申請展延的部分我們有再跟他商議這一邊商議這一點你明明是2026年6月就應該商轉已經延了十幾個月了台電都沒有處罰就代表台電不缺錢嘛一個月要罰多少你們知道嗎?據合約你們一個月要罰多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
213.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
241.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對你連這個你又不曉得你又不缺錢嘛該罰的你們不罰還在這邊要錢這什麼態度嘛對廠商有需要放水放這樣子十幾個月了欸有需要護航到這種程度嗎而且商場前24個月就要施工沒有人達到施工許可就履約情況終止契約你們有沒有評估過要終止契約啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
十幾個月都不罰款來這邊要錢該罰不罰其心可異啊這明明你們評估說這一定會造成風險風險已經造成了這正常上就出現這個問題再拉回來講民營電廠拿到之後當然只會想要強度關山那過往啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
都是五個條件先行以前我們蓋了說五個條件為什麼到2026年的時候就改成三個條件就可以就自以為說這樣效率會比較好哪有效率比較好有哪一個電廠蓋成了包括你們舉的中加例子融資都還有問題專業都還有問題甚至你們之前在對外講的是說你們想要多元發展好了我們先來問啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
在2023年的時候你們當初就想要把新達電廠的部分退變成生殖能發電那我問你這動工了沒有這個計畫已經取消了昨天卓魁還在工商團體當中說要多元發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
綠能要多元發展了結果你們就已經取消了你不笑死人這不代表生殖能不能在其他地方作用對啊可是你為什麼講那麼大聲標題都已經寫了就連動都沒有動我一查都沒動都沒有動整個生殖能發展到現在為止就不到0.1%嘛那我算過以生殖能來說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
目前農廢料一天大概有1600萬噸一年大概1600萬噸一座日處理量大概200萬噸的話單單處理生殖能的部分就可以有200多座連一座都沒有臺電的心態經濟部的心態就是看大不看小嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
只是想要用大的嘛 不想要以少來累積變多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
378.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
387.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
各位委員報告,省市總現在有3個示範計畫做的量還應該還不小0.0、0.0、0.08GW現在這3個計畫2個已經完成1個還在蓋到一半總量就是0.08GW嘛0.08GW嘛對對差不多是880MW對沒有錯就是0.08GW目前為止這邊累積起來就有一個量啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我最近也處理一個民眾的陳情一個生殖能發電廠要設立打了7通電話又繞回來原來地方你們有重視我還開了協調會你們才知道這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
433.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
445.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我還幫你們推動生殖能場的一個設立欸對謝謝委員因為我們現在在環境部跟我才發現問題這麼嚴重欸哪有什麼多元綠能你們只看大不看小嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
446.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
多元綠能還有什麼?你們弄一個小水利、鈍鉤集聚跟太陽能的部分為什麼太陽能的鈍鉤集聚最少的部分1到10kW的部分是5.78為什麼小電力的部分1到500就4.89大西方同樣是綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
470.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
市長,你們發展多元綠能而且你們一個單位小水利基礎還兩萬K瓦以下太陽能還分十個級距你們真的有心要處理嗎?小底下還有微啊為什麼不處理呢?有有,這個微我們今年剛剛討論前面都有討論完之後在那個上面又加了一個級距然後這個是按照成本去推算出來的按照成本? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
按照成本之外你也要按照那個誘因啊不是嗎?你們要推動這個小綠能嗎?對不對?還有你們跟內政部啊去推動了這個討論這個有關再生能源發展條例的部分啊有關於這個建築物設計太陽能光電發電設施的標準啊開了幾次會議?開了8次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
開了八次會議當中目前請向要300坪以上的新建的改建的建物才需要來這個強制要求啊設置這個屋頂型的光電你知道300坪以上在全台灣的建造有多少嗎才6%那你導致其他新建建物都不用用了啦那你這樣屋頂型是最沒有爭議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
550.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
565.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
部長這一塊委員這一塊是強制另外一個獎勵的一些小的那個獎勵的不要跟我講力的啦你強制的都放水放成這樣子了你要跟我講力的對啊你們跟內政部在推的時候你們還不願意主政欸你們要推給內政部欸對啊這什麼心態啊到底你們有沒有把這個責任扛起來啊指揮來這邊要錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
595.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
臺電剛扛起來,責任要扛起來啦。聯約署剛扛起來,責任要扛起來。經濟部該有的角色要有角色啦。政策目標該執行要執行啦。老師喜歡放水,那十幾個月先罰啊。連次你有沒有答應我?你不是缺錢嗎?違約的就要先罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
601.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝國文委員 接著請賴瑞隆委員質詢 |
| gazette.lineno |
215 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
郭委員國文：（9時47分）謝謝主席，有請連次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請連次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
連次長錦漳：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
郭委員國文：次長好。次長，川普已經預告1月20號上任之後，要針對加拿大跟墨西哥課徵25%的關稅，你也知道臺商在墨西哥設廠非常多…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
連次長錦漳：對，對。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
郭委員國文：高達258間，包括廣達、鴻海、緯創、和碩等大廠都在那邊，請問，原先我們要在墨西哥成立科學園區的想法還會繼續嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
連次長錦漳：川普這一次當選，我們已經有跟業界討論，就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
郭委員國文：可是問題這25%關稅是最新訊息，確定嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
連次長錦漳：對，對，因為我們有很多電子產業…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
郭委員國文：那你們會如何因應？科學園區會不會繼續設？會不會？科學園區還會不會想繼續設在墨西哥？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
連次長錦漳：設置科學園區的事，我不是很了解。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
郭委員國文：你不了解，那25%對我們產業的衝擊怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
連次長錦漳：這個我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
郭委員國文：重點。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
連次長錦漳：重點是針對墨西哥這一塊，所以我們現在已經跟廠商研議在美、墨之間，怎麼透過一些措施把這個因素消除掉。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
郭委員國文：我看你們還沒準備好，講的都是很空洞的東西，你多久可以對外說明？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
連次長錦漳：這個我們有做評估，我們把資料送給委員好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
郭委員國文：1月20日快到了。好，之前我問了有關於電廠的問題，這應該是您業管的，10月11、10月29的能源專報，兩次的回答不一樣，然後你們也承認得標後再環評的風險是高的，而得標前先環評風險較低，風險高的原因是什麼？就是你的廠沒有辦法設立起來，好，現在問題出現了，臺南九崴電廠原來要運轉的日期，你知道是哪一個月嗎？你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
連次長錦漳：我不是很確定。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
郭委員國文：這不是你業管的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
連次長錦漳：但是這兩個案我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
郭委員國文：對啊！我跟你講，2026年6月要商轉，2026年商轉的前30個月，如果未取得施工許可，要開始計罰，我問一下，罰了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
連次長錦漳：還沒。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
郭委員國文：還沒？你確定還沒有罰？沒有罰就代表台電不缺錢，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
連次長錦漳：沒有，沒有，這個是因為它程序在進行中。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
郭委員國文：日期算起來，今年初就已經過了，今年初就到期了，次長，這不是你業管的嗎？台電不是你業管的嗎？你怎麼會不清楚？你們不缺錢嘛！已經超過十幾個月了，到底有沒有罰款？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
連次長錦漳：這個台電可不可以來講一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
郭委員國文：到底有沒有罰款？開始罰了沒有？曾董。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
曾董事長文生：現在是依照合約，他們得申請展延，我們有跟他們商議這件事。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
郭委員國文：商議這一點？明明2026年6月就應該商轉，已經延了十幾個月，台電都沒有處罰，就代表台電不缺錢，一個月要罰多少，你們知道嗎？依據合約，你們一個月要罰多少？連這個都不曉得，你們不缺錢嘛！該罰的你們不罰，還在這邊要錢，這什麼態度嘛！對廠商有需要放水放這樣十幾個月嗎？有需要護航到這種程度嗎？而且商轉前24個月就要施工，沒有拿到施工許可，就視履約情況終止契約，你們有沒有評估過要終止契約？十幾個月都不罰款，還來這邊要錢！該罰不罰，其心可議啊！明明你們評估這會造成風險，而風險已經造成了，政策還是出現這個問題！好，再拉回來講，民營電廠拿到之後，當然只會想要強渡關山，過往都是五個條件先行，以前我們蓋的時候是五個條件，為什麼到2026年就改成三個條件就可以？你們自以為這樣效率會比較好，哪有效率比較好？有哪一個電廠蓋成了？包括你們舉的中佳例子，融資都還有問題，專業都還有問題，甚至你們之前對外講的是你們想要多元發展，好啊！我們現在問啊！2023年的時候，你們當初就想要把興達電廠退變成生質能發電，那我問你這動工了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
曾董事長文生：這個計畫已經取消。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
郭委員國文：已經取消了，對啊！昨天卓揆還在工商團體當中說要多元發展，綠能要多元發展，結果你們就已經取消了，你不笑死人。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
曾董事長文生：這不代表生質能不能在其他地方做，生質能也不是其他全部的…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
郭委員國文：對啊！可是你為什麼講那麼大聲，標題都已經寫了，就連動都沒有動，我一查都沒動，整個生質能發展到現在為止就不到0.1%嘛！我算過以生質能來說，目前農廢料一年大概有1,600萬噸，一座日處理量大概200萬噸，單單處理生質能的部分就可以有兩百多座。連一座都沒有，台電的心態、經濟部的心態，就是看大不看小，只想要用大的，不想要以少來累積變多嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，生質能現在有3個示範計畫做的量應該還不小。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
郭委員國文：0.08GW。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
連次長錦漳：現在這3個計畫，2個已經完成，1個還蓋到一半。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
郭委員國文：總量就是0.08GW。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
連次長錦漳：對，差不多是880MW。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
郭委員國文：對，沒有錯，就是0.08GW。目前為止累積起來就有一個量，單這個量我覺得就差不多通過一個天然氣發電廠的量，這你們就不做。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
連次長錦漳：沒有、沒有，因為這還涉及到一些藻育的問題，我們目前正在處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
郭委員國文：好，我最近也處理一個民眾的陳情，一個生質能發電廠要設立居然打了7通電話又繞回來原來地方，你們有重視？我還開協調會你們才知道這件事情，我還幫你們推動生質能廠的設立。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
連次長錦漳：對，謝謝委員，因為我們現在在環境部跟…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
郭委員國文：我才發現問題這麼嚴重，哪有什麼多元綠能？你們只看大不看小，多元綠能還有什麼？你們弄一個小水力躉購級距跟太陽能的部分，為什麼太陽能的躉購級距最少1到10KW是5.78元，為什麼小電力1到500KW就4.89元？大小眼，同樣是綠能，次長？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
連次長錦漳：我們現在在…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
郭委員國文：你們說發展多元綠能，而且你們一個單位小水力機組還2萬KW以下，太陽能還分10個級距，你們真的有心要處理嗎？小底下還有微，為什麼不處理呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
連次長錦漳：有、有，這個微我們今年前面都討論完之後，在那個上面又加了一個級距，這是按照成本去推算出來的。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
郭委員國文：按照成本之外，你們也要按照誘因不是嗎？你們要推動小綠能，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][1] |
還有你們跟內政部討論再生能源發展條例，有關建築物設置太陽光電發電設備標準開了幾次會議？開了8次會議當中，目前傾向要300坪以上新建、改建的建物，才需要強制要求設置屋頂型的光電，你知道300坪以上佔全臺灣的建造有多少嗎？才6%、才6%，導致其他新建建物都不用用了，按照屋頂型是最沒有爭議的，你們都如此保守。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
連次長錦漳：委員，這塊是強制，另外一個獎勵的，一些小的…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
郭委員國文：不要跟我講獎勵的，強制的都放水成這樣子，你還給我獎勵的。你們跟內政部在推的時候，你們還不願主政，還想要推給內政部，這什麼心態啊！到底你們有沒有把這個責任扛起來？只會來這邊要錢，台電該扛起來的責任要扛起來、能源署該扛起來的責任要扛起來、經濟部該有的角色要有角色啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
連次長錦漳：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
郭委員國文：政策目標該執行要執行。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
連次長錦漳：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
郭委員國文：老是喜歡放水，那十幾個月先罰，連次你能不能答應我，不是缺錢嗎？違約的就要先罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
主席：次長跟董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
連次長錦漳：我們就依照契約的相關規定來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
郭委員國文：對，已經拖了十幾個月還沒有罰，就很奇怪，缺錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
主席：好，謝謝國文委員，接著請賴瑞隆委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
96 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-27 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310701 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310701_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310701_00001 |