| IVOD_ID |
157335 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157335 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-21T11:58:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-21T12:06:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc78d56ce4a63752964cb1bdac6b17805f16e2c62e3913b474ba16637283b6cc4a7ded5c40f3c2c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:58:06 - 12:06:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）。（僅詢答，113年12月6日下午5時截止收案）） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.599 |
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7.446 |
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謝謝主席有請衛福部的邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.028 |
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委員好你好這個外界也在高度質疑說衛福部啊其實你來之前啊其實官僚非常官僚土房店一堆啦你什麼時候可以清一遍你自己親自清一遍說不要讓勞動部的事情發生在衛福部因為你現在點名了啊機關署裡面就有啊還有可能還有其他單位啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.028 |
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51.284 |
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大家官僚都聊氣很重啊衛福部現在老實講你當部長是人人好啦除了邱太元以外衛福部是官僚十足的單位啦我跟你說你是人人好啦 哪有錢這樣你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
72.295 |
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我一切都是以人民的健康為資質一生的資質你都這樣麻吉就是人家怎麼捏你的部主怎麼企圖我還是跟委員報告一下我到部裡面來深深的覺得我們部裡面的所有的官僚很足啊真的是非常的努力啦我派人死要死聽說有署長我有官威始祖啊那東西大家都知道啊出到這個部長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
83.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在大家最現在來講喔你夢在想啦一個是波波醫一個本土醫啊現在來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
博博宜現在把國外的外國全部加進來了所以把美國日本通通阿布朗當加進來了現在總共排隊多少6百多個人排隊對不對一年50個民族要排12年啊牙醫有6206百多嘛一年50排12年啊排12年啊包括所有的國外的嘛不是說國外醫學院畢業的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國外的有的 比如說哈佛的你把哈佛的John Hopkins的跟波波擺在一起這東西炒到多多的放在一起 要怎麼議這東西就是大家混這個在114年我們在這邊有時候修法就變成這樣子來 這個大家混我跟你講 現在來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
167.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請問一下牙醫多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一萬七左右來來來我們看一萬六一萬七我們現在的醫病比大概一千三百五十一個牙醫服務一千三百五十個人每一年增加五百位我這數字對吧不對請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
每年台灣391個新生可能還會加僑生或等等所以依照研究420個畢業如果說加上原來的不是每次都有50吧大概440個可是還要想一下考照率對 考照率怎麼樣考照率95%的過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
口罩的百分之九十五百分之九十五平均並不是偷偷平均並不是到九十五大概九成左右啦所以這個問題很嚴重的問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們如果按照現在這樣已經有一點over supply我們就會幾年後跟日本一樣一比一千人一個牙醫服務一千人就變成牙醫就崩盤東京是一比八百六十一福岡一比九百五十一大阪一比一牙醫師下班以後還去看Uber還要做外送員主席都知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有些人說我昨天回來喔 抱歉你本來找我人以前對台灣發讚的有扣就得了有扣就得了啦 這個部長你都知道囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請問邏輯你現在怎麼解本土裔跟國外裔怎麼取得平衡你告訴我怎麼做是這樣子我們當然臺灣也是國際化的一個國家所以我們我跟委員報告就是像即使像哈佛或像那個大學他們都有國際學生他說的國際學生大概是他們的比例大概8到10%所以我們如果一年有400位牙醫的本土生 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
334.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那乘以我們目前5大概8%比例上是跟國際間是接軌的啦你現在告訴我怎麼解因為時間快差不多到了齁這個馬上人家上街頭訴求你怎麼樣解讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本土小洋衣也能夠吞進去讓國外的洋衣也能夠吞進去你該怎麼處理你該告訴我怎麼處理我想我們還是第一個我們還是重申我們維持每年50個50個還有百十多年這是國際性的這1到10年來都沒有變我們也不會去增加第二個我們在學歷的認定就按照110年6月通過的法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
359.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
偏鄉計畫 |
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381.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他的確需要去補足現在限定是55個沒有牙醫師的鄉鎮我們給阿你偏鄉機會就是為波波來開門了沒有沒有沒有完全沒有實習現在已經不去做實習這邊是我們用本國的而且是有執照的24億裡面是不是絕對沒有波波是不是講一下確定一下目前沒有目前沒有以後也沒有啊不要目前你 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
422.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒有那種為了潑潑實習那一套當然如果說他是國外的學歷我們是以本國優先嘛那如果說譬如說他是雪梨大姐畢業然後就下這個國外預先其實他有執照啦其實這個應該目前也被排除掉現在我們以國 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
424.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國內畢業的優先喔不是優先啦一定啦百分之百啦現在問題是這55個偏鄉真的就是需要牙醫師啦所以還是有可能撲撲嘛那是沒有現在不會用撲撲那大家所擔心的是開放實習名額那我們現在又做的完全沒有這回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
最後一個我就請問你喔面對這個爭議我提供一個建議來一個總量管制大家的科技可以嗎總量管制管理是國內國外的科技考試你們定考試你們定可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
479.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
總量管制!就是不管你國內國外的總量管制!這樣子的話!柏坡跟仁土居就可以取得平衡點!大家考試來評實力!沒有了!你現在總量管制!你現在沒有總量管制啦!總量管制落實!確實落實!不要專門為柏坡開後門!你才有錢啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
497.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
法定人數不足 |
| gazette.lineno |
755 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時58分）謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
邱部長泰源：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
賴委員士葆：你好。外界也在高度質疑衛福部在你來之前其實官僚、非常官僚，土皇帝也一堆啦！你什麼時候可以清一遍？你自己親自清一遍，不要讓勞動部的事情發生在衛福部，因為你現在被點名了啊，疾管署裡面就有，可能還有其他單位，大家官僚、僚氣很重啊！衛福部現在老實講你當部長是人人好啦，除了邱泰源以外，衛福部是官僚十足的單位，我跟你說，你是人人好啦，好像麻糬一樣，你同意吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
邱部長泰源：我一切都是以人民的健康為職志，一生的職志。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：你在那邊這樣，麻糬就是任人家怎麼捏，你的部屬怎麼欺負都沒關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
邱部長泰源：不好意思，我跟委員報告一下，我到部裡面來，深深覺得我們部裡面的所有同仁真的是非常努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：官僚很足、官僚味很足啊！多兇啊，食藥署之前的吳署長官威十足啊！他的事大家都知道啊，現在這個部長就軟軟的，隨便人家亂捏，所以你要去好好查一下你們裡面的土皇帝很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
邱部長泰源：我一定不容許有這樣的職場霸行。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：不容許喔？一個禮拜裡面就搞定喔，這是卓榮泰說的喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
邱部長泰源：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長，你剛才說到學歷認證，你這個學歷認證如何從嚴？你也說一下給大家聽，現在來講你是「抱著燒」，一個是波波醫、一個是本土醫，現在波波醫把國外的全部加進來，把美國、日本統統夯不啷噹加進來，現在總共排隊多少？有六百多人在排隊，對不對？一年50個名額，要排12年啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
邱部長泰源：牙醫有620…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴委員士葆：六百多嘛！一年50個，要排12年。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
邱部長泰源：包括所有國外的。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，包括所有國外的，這個東西就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
邱部長泰源：我是說國外醫學院畢業的。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴委員士葆：國外的，比如哈佛的你也…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
邱部長泰源：剛剛召委也有提到，他們可能來自各方。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴委員士葆：你把哈佛的、Johns Hopkins的跟波波擺在一起，這個真的差非常多，怎麼把他們放在一起？這要怎麼處理？這就是大家混、大家混，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
邱部長泰源：111年我們在這邊修法，就變成這樣子了。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴委員士葆：來！這叫大家混！我跟你講，其實我是很同情你的，這個始作俑者叫陳時中啦！結果你邱泰源下去攬，你就像個麻糬，怎麼弄，你都不敢批評陳時中，主要是陳時中啦！現在牙醫快要崩盤了，你知道嗎？請問牙醫有多少人？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
邱部長泰源：一萬六千多…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴委員士葆：1萬7左右，來，你看，1萬6、1萬7，現在的醫病比大概是1,350，一個牙醫服務1,350個人，每一年增加500位，我這個數字對嗎？不對的話請指教，500這個數字對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
張司長雍敏：每年臺灣有391個新生，可能還加上僑生等等，所以依照研究有420個畢業，加上原來每次都50個，大概是470個…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，差不多500嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
張司長雍敏：可是還要想一下考照率。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：考照率怎麼樣？考照率95%可以通過啦！考照合格率95%，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
張司長雍敏：total平均並不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
賴委員士葆：蛤？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
張司長雍敏：total平均並不是到95%。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴委員士葆：那多少？你說一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
張司長雍敏：大概九成左右，還不到…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴委員士葆：九成、九成多，幾乎只要有考一定通過，所以很嚴重的問題是什麼？如果按照現在這樣，已經有一點over supply，幾年後就會跟日本一樣，1比1,000人，一個牙醫服務1,000人，那麼牙醫就崩盤了，東京是1比861，福岡1比951，大阪1比1,111，聽好喔！牙醫師下班以後還要去開Uber，還要做外送員，主席也都知道啊！有些牙醫說自己是從日本回來的，「歹勢」！日本現在找不到醫生，他們覺得臺灣多好啊！有去考就會上，有去考就會上，這個部長你都知道吧？請問要怎麼解？本土醫跟國外醫怎麼取得平衡？你告訴我，要怎麼做？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
邱部長泰源：是這樣子啦！當然臺灣也是國際化的一個國家，所以我跟委員報告，即使像哈佛那樣的大學，他們也都有國際學程，他們收的國際學生比率大概是8%到10%，如果一年有400位本土生牙醫，乘以8%，比率上是跟國際間接軌的…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴委員士葆：你現在告訴我怎麼解？我的時間差不多到了喔！馬上人家要上街頭訴求，你要怎麼解，讓本土小牙醫能夠吞進去，讓國外的牙醫也能夠吞進去，你要怎麼處理？你告訴我要怎麼處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
邱部長泰源：第一個，我們還是重申我們維持每年50個…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：50個，那要排十幾年欸！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
邱部長泰源：這是國際性的，一、二十年來都沒有變，我們也不會去增加。第二個，在學歷認定上，就按照110年6月通過的修法去處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以像有些名嘴講的，在波波隨便一個像學店那樣的都沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
邱部長泰源：沒有，沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：蛤？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
邱部長泰源：沒有，都有完整的入學考試…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：一定要念5年喔！實習呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
邱部長泰源：不管你是哈佛畢業、劍橋畢業、雪梨大學畢業，不管是哪裡，都一樣要經過這樣的程序。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，最後一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
邱部長泰源：不好意思，我還是講一下，偏鄉計畫的確需要補足，現在限定是55個沒有牙醫師的鄉鎮，我們給…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
賴委員士葆：你那個偏鄉計畫就是為波波開門的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
邱部長泰源：沒有，沒有，現在已經不去做實習這邊的，我們是用本國的，而且是有執照的。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，請問，24億裡面是不是絕對沒有波波？是不是？講一下，確定一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
邱部長泰源：目前沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴委員士葆：以後也沒有啦！不要目前。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
邱部長泰源：不是沒有，是沒有為了波波實習的那一塊，當然，如果說他是國外學歷，我們是以本國優先，譬如他是雪梨大學畢業，就是國外醫學院畢業，而且有執照，這個目前也被排除掉，現在我們以國內畢業的優先…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是優先，是一定，百分之百啦！可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
邱部長泰源：如果…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
賴委員士葆：百分之百國內的，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
邱部長泰源：問題是現在這55個偏鄉真的就是需要牙醫師，我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以還是有可能波波嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
邱部長泰源：沒有，現在不會用，波波那部分，大家擔心的是開放實習名額，而我們現在要做的，完全沒有這回事。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
賴委員士葆：最後我再請問你，面對這個爭議，我提供一個建議給你，來一個總量管制，大家考試，可以嗎？總量管制，管你是國內、國外的，就考試，考試你們定，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
邱部長泰源：我們考試很嚴格…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
賴委員士葆：可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
邱部長泰源：考試，對，都要考試…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是總量管制，不管你國內、國外，總量管制，這樣的話，波波跟本土醫就可以取得平衡點，大家考試憑實力。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
邱部長泰源：現在這樣就是總量管制。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有啦！你現在哪有總量管制！ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
邱部長泰源：就是400個，然後8%國外的…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
賴委員士葆：你現在沒有總量管制。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
邱部長泰源：現在完全沒有額外的，這50個以外已經沒有其他機會。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
賴委員士葆：總量管制落實，確實落實，不要專門為波波開後門，這樣才有解啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
邱部長泰源：不會，絕對不會，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
主席：謝謝，謝謝賴委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][1] |
接續我們請邱議瑩委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
140 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-26-10 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
55 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310501_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查中華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）（僅詢
答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310501_00008 |