| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:03:37 - 10:21:58 |
| 影片長度 |
1101 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院、法務部部長、內政部部長、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、勞動部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「如何遏止移工及青少年淪為詐騙集團工具，及打詐四法施行後相關子法及配套措施進度與具體成效之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 有請我們警政署署長麻煩警政署署長 署長法務部部長 部長 麻煩部長那個司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
議長請教幾個問題周杰倫的演唱會兩排要舉行我看下週也開放要取票先前在售票的期間黃牛這個現象非常的猖獗 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這陣子棒球十二強很熱部分的賽事我們也看到很多機師隊友你們也很清楚啦隊友環保的一個足跡那署長之前在答詢的時候說你警政署全力去出擊那我想請教這陣子的情況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
去準國安法委員報告上次委員早上質詢說你說是不是下午會成交結果下午就抓到用AI的這種模式去買票的有兩個集團所以我們都抓到了抓到之後我們就給他公佈這個情形那現在就是說這個因為他這個演唱會是屬於文創華裡面的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那真單純的只有買賣這個只有那些買來做販賣販賣票可以划到50倍了所以這件阿另外是這個是用那個AI程式的這個用文創法用違反這個來做移送可以划5000億萬啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
117.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
120.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我靠!我靠!我靠!我靠!我靠!我靠!我靠!我靠! |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那地政署那如果說違反整個文化創意產業發展法的這個黃牛條款的部分那本來都會去做這個起訴但現在碰到一個問題啊我也知道說我們警察警政機關跟我們法務部這個地方啊機場檢察官大家都很辛苦可是呢 廳長現在有一個問題來了就是說現在這個搭授的行為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我買兩張周杰倫的門票我買五千塊我不是買門票我就跟他說我送你一支麥克風我賣麥克風我賣我的簽名賣我的簽名警察局一定會把我扔下來說你給我臉瘋了結果我也被起訴結果到我們法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
無罪有說理的判決其實我都沒有意見那這個確實也很麻煩有時候你說一張有時候你說兩張它確實不是一個集團式那像這種啊這種規避的法律的一個脫法的一個行為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
216.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
很清楚我就是要賣這個黃牛票可是我就跟你說我在賣我莊惠熊的簽名我是在賣咖啡然後送捉捷倫的門票我咖啡是五千捉捷倫的門票殺霸的餓這個法案這樣的判這個判決以後你讓我們這個警察機關跟我們法務部檢察官這樣子大家忙了半天你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個脫法行為有這個實務上的見解我沒有特別的意見不過事實上我們當然法官判就當然沒有意見我的意思就是說他判決還是有說理那個說理還講得通我的意思說怎麼樣來解決總要有一個指引出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
265.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個我們回去會做進一步的研議好不好不然我們的基層警察大家忙得要死那檢察官也就認為說你這個壞蛋本來本身你就是在賣這個黃牛票那可就到法院這個我認為沒有一個指引出來前面兩個部分警察也好檢察官也好都坐北崗 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
291.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你認不認同這樣的看法我認同委員的看法這個不要開玩笑啦好不好另外我繼續要來請教的就是說我們司法院這個地方那個警政署警政署也是還有你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我一直很關心我們這個科技偵查的部分我們警政署今年在也舉辦了全國科技偵查的一個競賽這個都已經舉辦了這個是好事透過競賽跟這個實戰的一個演練才可以去發揮整個的一個效能但我比較關心的就是說科偵法的一個執法今年7月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
特別刑事訴訟法的特殊強制處分的一個專章裡面在條案指出來就是說按照該專章的調查的一個方式取得的資料跟保存還有管理、銷毀、呈報、通知、救濟、監督跟其他相關的一個事項的辦理是司法院會同行政院來制定那可是在上週那個刑事訴訟法的特殊處分的執行辦法裡面我看到司法院做了很多的一個功課 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
多到19個條文以及研討會至少三次的諮詢會議這個要大大的去做一個肯定這個真的是要大大做一個肯定可是我想請教司法院的就是說這一次你們的執行辦法的主軸到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
375.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們執行辦法除了依照153之10第5項的授權之外我們有重要的就是關於委員會所關心的資料的保存管理跟銷毀怎樣防避這部分我們做了很大的努力包括事中的陳報的警察是事中陳報部分我們都有做相當的約制我簡單的講我比較關切的就是說我們幾乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
409.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個部長也很清楚啊這個法務部這個地方都非常辛苦我們是很擔心的就是說你不管是對人民侵害是多小的那這個部分沒有授權到最後都會變爛用那我的建議就是說與其你們這個辦法司法院跟行政院這個地方應該就是法務部嘛不中就是說我們要公佈這個法律的時候你不如在整個研討會的過程裡面把這一些學者專家不同的意見做一件全部都給淡淡出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
410.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你不要這樣耍了公報耍然後媒體或者學者再去寫一篇他們所有的那種文章的渲染力啊或者說團體啊 你們建清也好你搞不好你搞不好大家再來批評一下之後這個逼你 你在這裡開水到水到轉泡齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
438.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
更靠攏贏。」所以我建議這個整個以後這個整個你們在作業的方式裡面可以再細緻一點不同意見我們幹嘛怕人家知道本來在實務上在做研討的時候正反意見本來都會有你會集合那麼多學者的專家來就是要聽他們的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他們講出來他也不怕人家外界知道啊那有些見解都是質地有聲啊只是說你在我們這個行政部門裡面你到底現在去實施會不會有那個能量的問題啊所以我建議喔我這個我真的大膽給你建議這個真的是在過程裡面啊就把那一些不同意見全部就把它做一個揭露好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
488.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我還不知道部長你的看法是什麼贊同委員的意見那我想我們這個法案就是要廣大意見或是採周延謝謝委員的指教是 你看我們訂這些執法 訂這些執引我們像在我們10月22號23號特殊相處處分的學術交流會裡面 研討會裡面全部都已經有了啊有了以後你就紅哉啊像現在我們在討論你也要不要就很奇怪那學術研討的這個東西哪有什麼不可告人的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
503.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
527.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那都是專家學者的見解啊 喔 廷長好不好 這個應該做得到吧這個我們學術委員會我們有對外公佈的 那資料也有提供 有公開版的可以是啦 我的意思是說 像這一些喔 不要等到我們的辦法出來以後啊這樣我們批評了之後 說我先撒撒出來 這樣就不好 好不好現在我們的執法已經在預告程序了 預告程序應該大家都看得到 可以給我們一些指教跟批評 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那另外我要來就教了我可能要請這個我看今天來的各項內政部警政署署發部還有我們國家通訊傳播委員會署長也有來還有我們行政院打詐指揮中心監管會也請多一些上來一下幾個問題要就教 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
587.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我想這一次部長我要請教法務部部長柏丁各個部門上來的我請你們也特別注意聽我們現在柯真法有一個很重要的一個功能就是打詐嘛柏丁我們這個打詐從議程的題目可以看得出來問題出在什麼地方你看現在的詐騙犯罪越來越可怕了把青少年跟外籍移工在很多不知情的情況之下全部都捲出來了捲進來了變成犯罪的加害者或者是一個幫助犯我要來讓你們看一下成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
588.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
592.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
各單位也看一下108年42億109年42億111年56億111年73億112年88億今年113年1到10月份就已經274億我要就教各位的就是說我們都經歷過疫情的疫情疫情有所謂的高峰 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
618.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
639.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不然警政署署長署長署長來來署長那疫情有高峰啊你以為我們這個打詐那個高峰什麼時候會到達你看到這個數字你會不會覺得很可怕現在看起來現在是七個月到八個月最高峰你覺得七個月到八個月是高峰因為八個月到一百三十幾個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
644.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
653.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你現在到15歲的時候已經274億了11月我看也快結束了嘛11跟12以現在你目前掌握11月份的部分你認為那也還沒降下來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
662.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
10月份是120票,7月份是137票,137票到120票 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
689.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個是很可怕的一個數字真的是很可怕的數字啦這個其實為什麼這麼多單位要上來內政部負責叫做試詐稍微叫做讓老百姓知道什麼叫做詐騙通傳會負責代表的就是說電信的防詐通傳會有來了齁你們叫做防詐嘛對不對齁然後呢通傳會你們叫賭詐對然後呢速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
700.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
司法部您就防詐對吧然後金管會您就主詐一堆的我也不知道這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
709.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
734.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
到底怎麼樣去做一個分工法務部當然叫做打詐他確實對 叫做懲詐也都有一定的功效我要說的就是說這到底安然還是算對的站在警察的立場站在金融檢察官的立場就我很努力啊你有犯罪我就破案啊對 這對可是站在整體國家的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
737.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
765.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們的警察機關他有盡責了努力在做檢察官案子送過來我努力偵辦也起訴了法院的部分當然判決以後人少掉一半人數我是都還沒有秀出來人數少掉了一半但是我們各單位站在整個國家的立場來看的話為什麼會讓老百姓批評說越打越仗這個我們要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
766.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
778.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個我們確實要檢討所以我才在問說高峰會在什麼地方疫情都有高峰會降下來你不可以打詐說我們都是高峰高峰高峰一直打一直上去一直上去我如果是警政署長我會認為我很努力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
783.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
797.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我如果檢察官我會認為我很努力啊我摘尖發福啊我維護這個社會的治安啊把壞蛋全部都抓起來啊可是站在整個國家的立場這個國家生病了怎麼了怎麼一直上去金額一直這樣累積這個接下來就可能不是警政署跟法務部的問題囉檢察官的問題囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
805.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
829.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
救我們其他機關的問題?你說通傳會你們有沒有問題?訴發部你們這裡有沒有問題?其他你們這些協助整個國家整體扮演著不同角色的所以我是覺得這個不要讓我們的檢察官或者警察大家忙翻了以後然後這個都還降不下來你說這個是不是成績部長? |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
830.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
834.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我也認為這個偵破對警察來講他們認為我是成績啊你說譬如說我們基層在棄毒吧對不對齁抓到了好多毒品啊我又要阻絕在境外全部都破貨可是如果那個量每一年一直增加一直增加那也很可怕怎麼樣去防堵就可能就在前面了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
854.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
868.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
來,我們行政院今天去你們的防詐中心的指揮官有來嗎?來,我要聽你,你有什麼選擇沒有來?這大家都很緊張在幫你倒卡手喔,你做指揮官的人你會看完柯委員報告,這個詐騙它是一個產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
872.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他不是一個單一的、個別的現象所以我們現在在做的就是說把這個產業鏈阻斷問題是有阻沒斷跟委員報告我們現在那個打詐四法通過之後11月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
887.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
903.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們現在有11個執法要上路那上路以後呢在訴發部這邊他們會針對四大平台然後把前端的詐欺有關的資訊把它堵住那堵住之後我們後面民眾我們要降低他接觸詐騙訊息的這樣的一個機率 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
933.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那再透過我們後端我們在查緝的部分把這個有關犯罪集團的部分把他查緝到案所以我們是從上中下游分別下手這我都可以說這我都很會說我如果是警政署長或是我刑事警察局長我會跟你說我就性質這麼好我都會破案我如果法務部長說我下面的檢察官大家都這麼拚命 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
934.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
942.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
列在我的起訴、加重求情我老司法院會對法官說那個來的案件我們就把它判下去我們就把它重判好三個機關都這樣講只是站在老百姓的立場說你這是在做什麼你整個責政團隊在幹什麼已經警政署這個地方他負到責任了法務部他負到責任了司法院他負到責任了那其他該誰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
964.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
974.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們就一個一個把它拆開你一個執政團隊是好多輪子好多機器大家共同來運轉所以你講這個 我知道你要講這個我告訴你這幾年都在討論這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
981.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1003.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
都在討論這個問題喔政府就是整個來看喔我們要加強的空間非常非常大喔我為什麼前面談課真法再來給你秀出這個數字是要告訴你大家都很努力大家都人仰馬翻數字也都很漂亮但是這個很漂亮的數字的背後就要告訴我們我們的政府機關努力還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1007 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1035.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
報告委員我們會持續我們現在有列管指標那在今年底之前行政院會公布新的打詐綱領2.0那麼把這個指標全部列出來之後行政院會對各部會目前手上所有的工具跟它執行的結果我們會去做列管所以這個部分跟委員報告我們明年開始我們在這個現在的數字呈現上我們有信心它會下降你認為下個月就會下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1036.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1059.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
跟委員報告我們11月底公布執法有工具之後我們從下個月到明年這段期間我們是下降期很好部長、署長工具都給你了工具都給你了我期待十月份就已經是高峰了我看到下個月的時候或者下下個月這個議題在我們司法法制委員會一定是大家會關注的一個議題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1061.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1072.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們很期待現在是高峰接下來慢慢緩降因為資訊都是公開透明的嘛這個確實啦其他的部會齁您各有所思的人你們要好好去想一想每一個部門雖然人多啦建制局打擊犯罪、展覽館打擊犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1082.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1099.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
司法院、我們的法院、依法審判其他的事情齁你們這裡的其他在發揮很大的功能該給你們的法律也給你們的該給的武器也給的該給的預算我們一毛錢都沒少要加油好不好好謝謝請回好謝謝委員 |
| IVOD_ID |
157280 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157280 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-15 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-21T10:03:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-21T10:21:58+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |