| IVOD_ID |
157234 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157234 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T15:44:55+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T15:54:35+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eabec98638fbec7e33715c44cfb23388520f42805494607c2788e7165f4ad3413885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:44:55 - 15:54:35 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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有請部長委員好部長我先念一段文章您聽一下你是位認真的公務員早上6點就上班下午4點可以下班但你時常先打卡打下班卡然後再繼續工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.145 |
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你下午被長官推薦還被長官大罵要求11月4號星期一務必交件11月3號星期日晚上家人來辦公室找你被保全阻擋無法進辦公室無法及時找到你11月4號星期一你把你的性命也一併交了出來這個文章你看過吧有我們一位認真的公務員 |
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61.124 |
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最後在勞動部的霸凌之下他交出了工作同時也交出了他的生命部長我看到你在備詢時落淚但我跟你講你真的也該落淚你勞動部的員工今天走上這麼悲慘的決路這麼認真的員工辛辛苦苦努力的員工不是他而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
91.721 |
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多少今天北分屬員工被這位長官霸凌、壓迫而我們這位員工走上了絕路你當然該感到難過可是更該難過的是他的家屬更該難過的是我們所有的公務員更該難過、也生氣的是今天勞動部是管勞工權益的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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146.915 |
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你們的單位竟然發生霸凌員工致死的案件你叫全國的勞工怎麼看這件事情這是全民之怒你知道吧您知道吧您知道那我告訴你剛剛前面很多委員拿起洪仲秋事件來做一個比喻你知道洪仲秋事件發生之後直屬長官被罰辦對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
151.554 |
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159.56 |
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國防部長下台對不對馬英九總統出面道歉還到往生者靈堂上香 對不對那我想請教你你現在這位公務員 認真的公務員他往生了這可惡的謝宜龍跑了躲起來了他還是得送考機會譯出送考機會他辭職到出國陪小孩 |
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179.406 |
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禮拜五說你要找他來,他會來嗎?我已經直接給他停止了對啊,你剛剛說禮拜五你要找他來啊你說他會來嗎?他不會理你啦他會來嗎?請問你他還是得送考機會送考機會他會來今天出來面對社會大眾嗎?你除了記者會他都不願意面對了剛剛牛許晴委員講這個情形就構成聽證調查我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
208.069 |
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224.643 |
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你不用尊重立法院這麼大的事情這可惡的謝宜龍就應該把他叫來國會把所有事情問清楚、問明白今天做得到嗎?部長今天做得到嗎?請問不要講你叫他來他不會理你國會叫他來會不會理?會不會理?你跟我講會不會理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
244.85 |
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272.712 |
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委員我們會盡全力來處理他不會理啦因為大法官做他的靠山啦大法官說不用理立法院啦全世界都有聽證調查大法官把他沒收了國防部長當時洪仲秋下台了你現在還是在這個地方你還是在這個地方你剛說過了你可以離開我知道但我就看你怎麼離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
274.346 |
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283.588 |
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我先告訴你喔這件事情我必須客觀的講你有責任沒錯吧我有責任阿對當然責任全部全在你也有別人有責任那有責任的跑了叫許明春他重用這個人綠帳狗市阿狗帳綠市阿今天他為什麼可以這麼囂張 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
301.032 |
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304.895 |
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你竟然在這邊要代替他接受社會大眾的責難他比你還大我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
327.038 |
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329.019 |
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第三個我就要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
355.209 |
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381.336 |
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紅仲秋案馬總統親自出來道歉親自到往生者靈堂上香求賴總統到現在說一句話沒委員這我自己承擔吶我告訴你你也承擔不了賴清德總統我不是怪你因為這你不能決定但你至少告訴賴清德總統人民有多憤怒到現在為止他一句話都沒說這是我犯的錯什麼叫你犯的錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
383.235 |
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392.1 |
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責任是一個垂直體系那我馬總統也可以講那是國防部犯的錯阿我自己承擔阿馬總統也可以講國防部犯的錯不關我的事阿你們幹嘛找我叫國防部長出來說這是我的錯我承擔就好阿到現在為止賴清德總統是沒有一句話說欸這樣對嗎這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
408.41 |
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429.874 |
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再來我要告訴部長為什麼你有責任我剛剛講許明川今天用了這個人重用這個人靠著他的事今天囂張跋扈出事不負責任躲起來可是我跟你講今天我跟部長講我今天看你的報告我真的看到快吐血啦你什麼噁心瀝血的報告是讓人吐血的報告啦今天謝宜龍可以這麼囂張 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
435.185 |
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462.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你們今天勞動部這份報告就是一面照妖精就是他的幫兇你知道嗎你知道什麼叫草菅人命這個報告叫草菅人命你知道什麼叫官官相護這個報告就是官官相護然後我要跟你講你裡面竟然給大家說謝芬署長的管理方式不是同仁親生直接原因你憑什麼做這個結論啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
464.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
467.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
請問部長你憑什麼做這個結論當然你後來改啊改口啦你說要開始記他兩大過啊停職啊你說這裡就有霸凌當然我前面也講過啦你的霸凌裡面也是一個非常奇怪的霸凌你說有霸凌但是不是發生在往生者身上他沒有對往生者霸凌他對其他人霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
488.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
498.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我跟你講今天正因為你的報告還說他目的良善捏你還說得出這個謝宜龍目的良善今天謝宜龍當然這麼囂張啊你今天如果今天勞動部你都在幫他背書的時候你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
507.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
521.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他能不囂張嗎?我們能不今天疑惑到底謝宜龍何許人的背後靠山到底多大還要勞駕你打電話給民進黨黨部透過民進黨黨部去關心民進黨的議員他怎麼那麼厲害啊還勞駕你在這邊一個人來承受今天大家的一個質詢他自己躲起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
533.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
554.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我真的沒看過這麼大的官比你還大最後我要說我真的誠懇的奉勸今天所以部長你今天你說過你會以符合社會期待的方式來負起責任我看著你怎麼以符合社會期待的方式來負起責任第二個你身為勞動部部長你要去讓賴清德總統知道你要讓卓榮泰院長知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
562.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
577.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這件事是讓整個勞動部捍衛勞工權益免受霸凌的信任全部崩盤還能躲著不講話真的是不應該請賴總統出來今天對全國勞工人說聲對不起吧謝謝你 |
| gazette.lineno |
2196 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員智強：（15時45分）有請部長。 |
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何部長佩珊：委員好。 |
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羅委員智強：部長，我先唸一段文章，您聽一下：你是位認真的公務員，早上6點就上班，下午4點可以下班，但你時常先打卡，打下班卡，然後再繼續工作。你下午被長官退件，還被長官大罵，要求11月4號星期一務必交件，11月3號星期日晚上家人來辦公室找你，被保全阻擋，無法進辦公室，無法即時找到你。11月4號星期一，你把你的性命也一併交了出來。這個文章你看過吧？ |
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何部長佩珊：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
羅委員智強：我們一位認真的公務員，最後在勞動部的霸凌之下，他交出了工作，同時也交出了他的生命。部長，我看到你在備詢時落淚，但我跟你講，你真的也該落淚，勞動部的員工今天走上這麼悲慘的絕路，這麼認真的員工，辛辛苦苦努力的員工，不是他而已，今天多少北分署的員工被這位長官霸凌、壓迫，而我們這位員工走上了絕路，你當然該感到難過，可是更該難過的是他的家屬，更該難過的是我們所有的公務員，更該難過、也該生氣的是，今天勞動部是管勞工權益的單位，你們的單位竟然發生霸凌員工致死的案件，你叫全國的勞工怎麼看這件事情？這已經是全民之怒，你知道吧？您知道吧？您知道？ |
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何部長佩珊：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
羅委員智強：那我告訴你，剛剛前面很多委員拿起洪仲丘事件來比喻，你知道洪仲丘事件發生之後，直屬長官被法辦，對不對？國防部長下臺，對不對？馬英九總統出面道歉，還到往生者的靈堂上香，對不對？那我想請教你，現在這位公務員，認真的公務員，他往生了，這可惡的謝宜容跑了，躲起來了！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
何部長佩珊：他還是得送考績會議處。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
羅委員智強：送考績會？他辭職出國陪小孩！你說禮拜五要找他來，他會來嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
何部長佩珊：我已經直接給他停職了。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
羅委員智強：你剛剛說禮拜五你要找他來啊！他會來嗎？他不會理你啦！他會來嗎？請問你。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
何部長佩珊：他還是得送考績會。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
羅委員智強：送考績會，他今天會出來面對社會大眾嗎？昨天記者會他都不願意面對了。剛剛牛煦庭委員講，這個情形就構成聽證調查，我告訴你，你不用尊重立法院，這麼大的事情，這可惡的謝宜容就應該把他叫來國會，把所有事情問清楚，問明白，今天做得到嗎？部長，今天做得到嗎？不要講你叫他來，他不會理你，國會叫他來，會不會理？會不會理？你跟我講會不會理嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員，我們會盡全力來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
羅委員智強：他不會理啦！因為大法官做他的靠山啦！大法官說不用理立法院啦！全世界都有聽證調查，大法官把它沒收了。國防部長當時因為洪仲丘事件下臺了，你現在還是在這個地方，你還是站在這個地方。你剛剛說過了，你可以離開。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
何部長佩珊：我可以離開。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
羅委員智強：我知道，但我就看你怎麼離開，我先告訴你，這件事情我必須客觀地講，你有責任，沒錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
何部長佩珊：我有責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
羅委員智強：對，當然責任不全在你，別人也有責任，但有責任的人跑了，叫許銘春，他重用這個人，「狗仗綠勢」啊！今天他為什麼可以這麼囂張，霸凌整個北分署，搞到81個人離職、搞到有人輕生，一餐飯吃4萬元，調用所有的科目，去買禮品做他的公關，他憑什麼這麼囂張？然後出了事，今天部長你可憐，你竟然在這邊要代替他接受社會大眾的責難，他比你還大，我告訴你，他比你還大，仗的是誰的勢？仗的是許銘春的勢，仗的就是陳菊愛將──許銘春的勢。你以為只有這個單位這樣？過去我接到太多公務員告訴我，民進黨上來，愛將文化、仗著背後靠山大的狀況比比皆是，而部長你現在還在這個地方。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][1] |
第三個，我就要說洪仲丘案，馬總統親自出來道歉，親自到往生者靈堂上香，請問賴總統到現在說一句話了沒？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員，這我自己承擔，因為是我犯的錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
羅委員智強：我告訴你，你也承擔不了賴清德總統，我不是怪你，這你不能決定，但你至少告訴賴清德總統，人民有多憤怒，到現在為止他一句話都沒說。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
何部長佩珊：這是我犯的錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
羅委員智強：什麼叫你犯的錯？責任是一個垂直體系，那馬總統也可以講那是國防部犯的錯啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
何部長佩珊：我自己承擔。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
羅委員智強：馬總統也可以說是國防部的錯，不關我的事啊！你們幹嘛找我？叫國防部長出來說這是他的錯，他承擔就好啊！到現在為止，賴清德總統沒有說一句話耶！這樣對嗎？這樣可以嗎？再來，我要告訴部長，為什麼你有責任？我剛剛講許銘春今天用了這個人、重用這個人，這個人靠著他的勢，今天囂張跋扈，出事不負責任躲起來！可是我跟部長講，我今天看你的報告，真的看到快吐血了，什麼嘔心瀝血的報告，是讓人吐血的報告！今天謝宜容可以這麼囂張，你們勞動部這份報告就是一面照妖鏡，就是他的幫兇，你知道嗎？你知道嗎？你知道什麼叫草菅人命？這個報告就叫草菅人命！你知道什麼叫官官相護？這個報告就是官官相護！然後我跟你講，你裡面竟然可以跟告訴大家說，謝分署長的管理方式不是同仁輕生的直接原因，你憑什麼做這個結論？請問部長，你憑什麼做這個結論？當然你後來改口了，你說要記他兩大過、停職，你說這個已經有霸凌。當然我前面也講過了，你說的霸凌也是非常奇怪的霸凌，你說有霸凌，但不是發生在往生者身上，他沒有對往生者霸凌，他對其他人霸凌。你的報告還說他目的良善！你還說得出這個謝宜容目的良善，今天謝宜容當然這麼囂張啊！如果今天勞動部都在幫他背書的時候，你告訴我，他能不囂張嗎？我們能不疑惑到底謝宜容何許人？他背後靠山到底多大？還要勞駕你打電話給民進黨黨部，透過民進黨黨部去關心民進黨的議員，他怎麼那麼厲害啊！還勞駕你在這邊一個人來承受今天大家的質詢，他自己躲起來，我真的沒看過這麼大的官耶！比你還大。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][1] |
最後我要說，我真的誠懇地奉勸，部長今天說過你會以符合社會期待的方式來負起責任，我看著你怎麼以符合社會期待的方式負起責任。第二個，你身為勞動部部長，你要讓賴清德總統知道，你要讓卓榮泰院長知道，這件事是讓整個勞動部捍衛勞工權益、免受霸凌的信任全部崩盤！還能躲著不講話，真的是不應該，請賴總統出來對全國勞工說一聲對不起吧！謝謝你。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：好，謝謝羅委員，謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
接續請鄭正鈐委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
360 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[34] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[35] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[36] |
柯志恩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[37] |
萬美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
231 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310201_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試
院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作
業」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310201_00012 |