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| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:38:08 - 15:44:46 |
| 影片長度 |
398 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好,謝謝主席。何部長有請。 |
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部長辛苦啊這一整天今天高達46位立法委員針對這樣的專案報告要提質詢這數量算非常非常多表示這是一個社會重大矚目的案件我們先從制度面來討論一下這件事因為今天很多委員已經問了個案的一些細節但本席相信這個是絕對不會是個案一個作威作福大頭病的官員欺負的絕對不會只有那個輕生的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.187 |
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所以我要先問勞動部部長這一段時間因為我沒有在調查報告裡面看到相關的數字只有這個不幸輕生的這個基層公務員他之前有沒有陳情過尋各種管道來為自己這個伸張正義有嗎完全沒有完全沒有其他人有沒有其他的基層公務員有沒有如果據我現在的資訊了解其他基層公務員 |
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68.103 |
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有透過各種其他的管道試圖要陳情可是也沒有在我的部會裡面有發現力量就是用各種別的方式要陳情但是就是沒有循自己部會的方式來陳情是這樣意思嗎那部長你會不會覺得有點難過這樣 |
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85.126 |
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照理來講勞動部應該是要幫基層說話的地方對不對幫勞工捍衛權利的地方結果發生了各種超時加班、職場霸凌等等的狀況竟然沒有人循正規的管道來反應這表示規則出了一些問題對不對我們部會裡也有因為霸凌案而立案的今天早上也很多委員問嘛你還有SOP等等但顯然如果剛剛部長的回答是就你所知循部裡面管道的基本上是沒有那不就表示你所有的機制跟SOP形同虛設嗎 |
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對不對部長這是要檢討的對嘛這是要檢討對不對所以你剛剛在講說什麼我只有10天的時間可以反應這個是很奇怪的事因為這樣的事情一定是長期發生嘛現在很有可能會形成什麼形成公部門的MeToo事件啊每個人都說對啊其實這個地方文化就是這樣那制度若不修改或者是制度失靈的時候我們應該怎麼辦呢部長 |
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138.1 |
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沒辦法 文化的問題所以即便我們調整了SOP調整了規則調整了沒有用 是嗎還是有別的做法 精進措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
146.226 |
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我們當然是要來檢討啦當然是要來檢討這個事情一時半刻當然講不清楚但是制度面你剛剛有講你要負起責任很多人講到政治責任你可能要離開這個位置好這是一個層面但是我覺得今天不只是你啦在場坐在這邊所有的官員難道不應該及時廣義一下嗎怎麼樣改善公部門的文化也好或者是讓這個制度是可以保護當事人的這是大家都要共同深思的問題這是制度的部分那再來我要問政治的部分 |
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這部長我唸幾個你休息一下我唸幾段話給你聽民進黨這個前主席現在前總統蔡英文在評論當初洪仲秋事件的案子他說政府要負最大的責任因為政府一直試圖掩飾真相這個事件評論非常多但大家都非常不滿意現在看到的是不肯坦白不肯誠懇面對社會質疑的政府試圖想掩飾一些事我們必須給政府壓力要求改革同樣的事不要再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.261 |
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218.357 |
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時任立委現任高雄市市長陳其邁評論當初國防部部長因為洪仲秋事件請辭下台時他說國防部長高華柱請辭獲准但這對釐清真相真的有幫助嗎民進黨強烈反對將洪案的層級限縮在國防部部長 |
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219.398 |
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238.675 |
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時任民進黨黨主席前行政院長蘇貞昌說政府做了很多刻意隱瞞人民的事情讓大家深深受害政府變成一個無能、賴皮、不負責又日漸粗暴的政府時任立委蕭美琴現任副總統說國防部對整件事情處理怠慢為在第一時間協助並保障受害者家屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.175 |
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239.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
部長,你聽了這些話,心中作何感想? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
當初有洪仲秋現在又有這位基層的公務員民進黨執政了這麼久改變了什麼你覺得這些曾經出來講過話的人他們應不應該再出來講一次話部長我想我們會來反省監討我們要深刻的反省監討我聽了今天很多委員的質詢我發現你部長你是我覺得你蠻勇敢的在這個地方這麼多的立法委員輪番砲轟但是我聽到的是你講說責任到你為止對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
然後本來早上講說只是調職後來因為也許是受到壓力變成停職處分然後停職處分恐怕又完了因為現在這個當事人直接給你拍拍屁股走人啊離職出國陪小孩社會憤怒是越來越升高可是部長你今天喔如果是為長官護航然後為下屬護短的話我們沒有辦法解決任何的問題啊你的擔當不能用錯地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
343.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
大家希望的是你站在最基層基層公務員也好基層勞工也好付出勞力為自己討生活的這些人他是需要你付出擔當保護的人的地方但顯然我們今天還沒有看到這樣的態度其實令人心寒我最後要問部長一個問題很多時候你剛剛內部你講我們出現事情的時候行政單位的內部都會做所謂的行政調查可是行政調查今天出來的調查報告結果就是血流成河慘不忍睹 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
為什麼前一段時間國會要召開這個國會無法的修正本席認為這件事完全構成成立聽證調查的要件請問部長你讚不讚成這件事情我們來辦聽證調查把當事人抓來把話講清楚你讚不讚成我尊重立院尊重立院你個人讚不讚成如果到時候聽證調查的時候要你來作證你會不會來作證我尊重立院尊重立院 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個喔,待會應該大家也會很好奇這樣的事情的答案但只是尊重立院真的能夠滿足人民的需求嘛我們現在擔心的這個人現在拍拍屁股走啦當初這些高層,講話的高層看起來責任到你為止,不用負責當事人啊,加害者逍遙法外可以直接出國走人這真的能夠平息社會的民怨嗎請部長三思啦,謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
157232 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157232 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T15:38:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T15:44:46+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |