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| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:41:04 - 14:55:18 |
| 影片長度 |
854 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 主席麻煩請我們何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長今天整天大家都關心這一次在發生在勞動部分署的這個大齡事件或是同人輕生啊我想先請教一下為什麼我們現在看到好像是擠牙膏式的又說這一個分署長要降級又說他要停職到底你們現在這個懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
41.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那是我的決定,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
對 就是我的態度啦你的態度因為我的考機會也會開會所以這只是我的態度而已我必須讓考機會決定可是我有我的態度這樣子你有你的態度對那現在大家也在講是說難道就這樣子就了事了嗎部長的部分勒您自己有沒有政治責任認不認為這一件事情應該要有政務官要來下台負責我有政治責任啦你的政治責任是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
94.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我可以離開啊我可以離開所以你已經有跟院長請辭了嗎你已經有跟院長請辭了嗎因為現在外傳是你跟院長請辭但是現在說是要慰留你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
123.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
有這個情形嗎?沒有這樣子的東西我根本還沒有跟院長有任何的聯繫沒有聯繫那也沒有來自院長院方的壓力或是院方的關心沒有沒有沒有但是你說你可以離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
153.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這就是我做符合社會期待的責任我負起這個責任所以跟委員您報告我可以離開沒有問題好所以就是等這段事情因為你說你禮拜五會帶這位這位前分署長一起出面那後續國人也要看你負責的態度你要用怎麼樣的一個情形負責嗎但是本席現在要講來我們先看第一頁簡報 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這到目前為止的官方網站非常諷刺熱忱、創新、感動人盡其才才盡其用結果讓一位同仁離開再來剛剛在我們勞動部的門牌上面被貼了一個便利貼我是公務員我想好好活著部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
193.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你看到這樣子的一個便利貼有什麼感想?對不起對不起誰?當然對不起我們這廣大的機關裡面所有的公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
廣大機關的公務員莫名的壓力被籠罩著然後應該是勞工朋友的保護傘勞工朋友的守護者的勞動部竟然發生了這樣霸凌的事件竟然發生了同仁離開的事件然後被人家寫說我是公務員我想好好活著什麼時候我們中華民國公務同仁那麼卑微到我做一份工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
228.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
到最後我居然是說我要拜託勞動部拜託長官讓我好好活著部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
233.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
234.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個是在網路上有想有匿名的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
259.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報料但是這一個賬號也被很多人講到他講的應該就是我們同一個單位的工作同仁他其中特別講到11月1號禮拜五我們這一位親身離開公務員他被長官推薦、被長官大罵長官要求11月4號禮拜一務必交件我想請教一下我們的調查小組有沒有查出來這個長官是誰這件事情屬不屬實 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
289.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
291.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他會不會就是壓垮最後一根稻草然後勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
297.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這長官是誰根據我掌握的資料11月1號禮拜五跟他開會的是副分署長是副分署長要求他11月4號要交接所以這個長官是副分署長我不知道這我沒有這我那有沒有大罵有沒有被推薦有沒有大罵這件事件我們沒有掌這個沒有調查沒有得出有沒有大罵的問題部長怎麼會沒有得出有沒有大罵的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
325.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
349.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個才可能會是關鍵我們今天不管是分署長不管是副分署長好即便你們講是說是副分署長他有沒有可能會是讓這個同仁親身最後的一個狀況在詢問副分署長的時候他有沒有承認他11月1號對當事人大罵嗎他有這樣的行為嗎他沒有講啊可是當天跟他開會的就是他那位長官就是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
353.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當天跟這一位同仁開會的11月1號開會好那再來11月3號而且謝芬署長當天11月1號是請假的我們都知道他請假但不能是說他請假就變成說他沒有責任11月3號晚上家人要到辦公室找這一位同仁被保全阻擋沒有辦法進辦公室有沒有這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
378.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
11月4日凌晨已經過12點的52分我再確認一下就是大概50幾分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
428.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就是11月4號嘛等於是禮拜天已經過到禮拜一也許家人已經聯絡不上他想要來了解因為知道說這一個同仁很盡責的到辦公室加班結果到了現場一樓還被保全阻擋沒有辦法進辦公室那他沒有表達他沒有在現場表達他是他的家人 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
429.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員那不是勞動部的保全那是中央聯合辦公大樓他們集體請的保全當然我們勞動部有疏失啦就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個保全被阻擋那我們沒有及時去跟家屬來聯繫因為當時他沒有通報他們也沒有通報我們好來來來一個一個釐清啊你現在不要不要覺得說你們很委屈啊說實在發生在勞動部我只是請教一下這一個親生如果說依照現在檢察官判斷的話他什麼時候親生 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
家人12禮拜天的晚上禮拜一的清晨來的時候會不會有可能是可以救得到他的如果說讓他看到家人會不會他可能就不會走上這一條不歸路 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
527.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為是早上11月4號早上7點半有同仁上班的時候才發覺說他已經離開了嘛那換言之你們的記錄到現在你們還講不清楚也不知道檢察官到底是確認說他什麼時候離開是不是我們辦公室裡面有沒有相關的錄影錄影設備也沒有有還是沒有辦公區有沒有相關錄影設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
532.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
538.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以換言之你們也沒有辦法掌握到底裡面的情況所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
540.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
562.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這會不會又是一個可能可以挽回他但到最後沒有辦法的原因的一個機會點其實這件事情我們要講的是說這個同仁有沒有發出求救訊號我覺得有欸從今年的2月就有上百封的陳情書不管說現在講是說有給部長有給相關單位有給民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那結果到11月1號又被大罵他可能變成是壓垮最後跟稻草結果11月3號的晚上家人想要去找他又沒有不得其門而入所以11月4號就有憾事發生來再來我時間真的有限但是我覺得這個事情不能這樣子私了請教有沒有這件事情沒有沒有有沒有掉電梯裡面的影像攝影像沒有來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
594.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
614.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他講是說11月4號早上高層指示貨梯不能用所以不能用單架運送死者的遺體那後來電梯不夠大所以只能用單架把它整理上來變成是坐姿的情況離開而且還不准上令蓋上白布 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
615.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
638.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
沒有這樣子的事部長說沒有來有沒有影像有沒有去看當天的電梯的影像不是委員有沒有去看當天的電梯影像沒有所謂高層下令沒有有沒有去看當天的電梯影像不是當天的電梯影像交出來不是因為現在很多的同仁都講是說那天被要求不能蓋上白布 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
639.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有提醒有走廊的影像能不能調出當天走廊的影像為什麼沒有調到也不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
674.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 來來來來部長給你們那麼兩三個禮拜時間的調查小組去調了結果你剛剛跟我講沒有先撇清沒有然後來現在告訴我們說其實根本還沒有看到那時候影像那你有什麼底氣說沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
690.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
來最後抱歉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我先講啦你最後你們今天的報告是直接督導的北分署副分署長跟秘書室主任因為他直接督導所以他一併送考記會可是你們之前怎麼寫來下一頁謝分署長管理雖非同仁離開的直接原因你們直接開宗明義幫謝分署長開脫啊然後現在你們把這個鍋甩給誰來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
744.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
767.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
反而是甩軌直接督導資訊小組的北分署副分署長跟秘書室主任你這樣寫的狀況以我對你們公務機關的瞭解到最後這郭氏副分署長跟秘書室主任要背啊因為他是直接督導啊當然你剛剛講是說如果當天11月1號破口大罵的是副分署長的話我也認為他有非常嚴重的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
769.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
769.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
800.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
825.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
還有其他委員要詢問但是我剛問的這些問題都是你這一此時此刻你們還回答不清的都是你們的調查報告裡面沒有寫清楚的都是我們看完調查報告之後我們還有產生更多懷疑的禮拜五你們還會再出面我希望禮拜五的時候你們可以把我剛剛講的這些疑點全部都交代清楚不要再有任何遮掩 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
825.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
826.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
謝謝洪委員 謝謝部長 接續我們請 |
| IVOD_ID |
157221 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157221 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T14:41:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T14:55:18+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |