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| 委員名稱 |
黃健豪 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:08:26 - 14:17:01 |
| 影片長度 |
515 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請教育部人事處處長、行政院人事行政總處、中國規劃處處長、考試院保訓中規處處長、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會保障處處長、 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我先請請教教育部處長是哪一位 |
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39.303 |
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67.359 |
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蘇長好蘇長在這個質詢開始為什麼先找你們是因為在這個勞動部的霸凌事件成為新聞事件之前我想媒體有報導過這個你們教育部所屬的海科館館長也是霸凌員工也有錄音檔那也確實他也講說自己是求好心切跟我們今天的這個勞動部本身這個案子一樣大家都是求好心切啊求好心切但是他一樣對員工產生是霸凌那這件事情之前立法院也有來質詢過 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.38 |
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89.37 |
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那我想問一下到底以這個案子為例現在你們處理進度到哪裡跟委員報告從媒體在10月23號揭露以後我們在隔天就立刻請管方就相關的媒體先跟我們做說明然後說明了之後我們在10月30號就有到海科管區做實地的訪視就媒體所揭露的相關事項做進一步的瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.09 |
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現在到哪裡了目前我們這個相關的了解的情形還在整理中我們會再召開相關的會議邀請相關的委員還有專家學者來共同來討論我想這就是教育部大家要看到啦今天我不是針對你我想說這你可能也不是真的主管你只能來代表來發言但是像勞動部這事情發生之後就是因為這幾天大家非常關注所以這個分署長他現在這個請假被調職了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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你們的確有一個這樣子的流程處理表那裡面呢 |
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每一件事情的救濟程序發生時間到調查到處理基本上都是要找自己的主管來處理嘛那你提到說如果涉機關首長像如果是涉案的話要向上級機關提出申訴這個是你們的處理流程那這個是不是指導他沒有什麼強制約束力因為裡面也提到說如果當事人只有口頭告知沒有提出申訴的話建議機關要幫這個當事人提起申訴也是建議而已是不是這樣子 |
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170.092 |
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原則上這個我們也都有要求各機關雖然他是一個指導的一個性質但我們也是有要求各機關要落實來處理那就回到剛剛其他委員提到了那這個東西是不是應該把它法制化因為你現在變指引而已啊所以剛剛提到了像比如說今天是因為勞動部是爐主啊所以他的這個分數獎被掉了那教育部就沒事啊這個館長他持續在當他館長啊那這個制度化怎麼產生呢沒有辦法處理耶那再來繼續 |
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我剛好手上因為時間比較少我手上有一個陳情案一個地方基層的這個中央單位10月6號的時候這個當事人受到員工丟紙箱恐嚇並咆哮在這個10月7號的時候單位主管確認有此事 |
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那一直都沒有處理10月24號的時候這個陳慶仁把這個投訴信函寄到主管的信箱24號寄到之後30號應該都沒有收到這回應從事發到30號已經過三週了都沒有收到回應所以家屬在致電在網上呈報就如同我們的指引一樣往往上向機關首長提出申訴 |
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那結果才發現說這個信箱從來都沒有被打開過啊所以才發現說原來這幾天的申訴都沒有意義那終於10月30號打電話去說我有這個陳情案之後11月1號單位主管才開始處理那當然最後處理說也是把那個人調職調到隔壁單位而已所以他們還是遇到我待會一樣會把這個相關案件提供給相關單位給職業單位但是今天為什麼先請整治行政總處跟保訓處還有考試院上來我要問的是說像這種事情 |
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他投訴無門了那這怎麼辦如果今天我是一個基層公務人員我投訴我的主管對我實施霸凌結果主管不處理我往上呈報他沒有打那通電話去講說你有沒有收到我的信 |
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他從頭到尾都沒有開那個信箱那我想問一下這到底要怎麼處理啊你們要怎麼處理你們要怎麼保障公務員因為你們在你們的報告裡面也寫到說有很多的法令你們可以提供申訴管道你們是這個準司法機關等等的可以來提供申訴的救濟那到底在實務上就算不管是以今天我今天收到的澄清案例來講也好還是今天勞動部發分數長發生的事情也好還是之前海科管的事情也好那表示整個公務人員的申訴霸凌機制是無效的吧 |
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三位你要怎麼做成這個怎麼解決這樣的問題 |
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因為各機關其實他都會有他的一個申訴管道如果說這個同仁他在服務機關有這樣的情形那他可以跟服務機關來提出申訴我知道提出啦沒有用啊上級機關其實機關主管首長或者上級機關其實他對於這些相關的事項也可以透過指揮監督的方式來就事實的部分來去做瞭解進一步處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.358 |
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我具體再問一次好了就以這個我手上收到的陳情案例為例就好今天他找到主管沒有用的時候就像之前找勞動部他們這個投訴沒有用之後那他到底怎麼辦有人事行政總處有這個流程那保訓處也說自己是這個可以處理那考試院也說可以處理那到底一個基層公務人遇到 |
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378.905 |
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| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想過去性騷擾防治是走了這麼多年現在才有一個製作化那這個霸凌的問題現在變成只是指導原則而已嘛那我今天請大家來你們都來到這邊寫了這麼多報告那我想問啊如果今天以這個犧牲公務人員今天遇到這個事情就好了那他到底要找誰他主管都不處理他怎麼辦呢找明代嗎每次都只能找明代嗎明代那麼多人可以找 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
403.138 |
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跟委員報告就是說跟機關提出申訴之後機關依照規定要在30天內要要給他做一個一個處理那如果疫情沒有的話他可以直接跟保訓會提出再申訴是這樣子 |
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419.292 |
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好,今天時間有限啦,但是我要希望說,我們的人事行政總處也好,考試院也好,或是公務人員這個保障培訓委員會也好,到底這個主管機關如果霸凌事件產生之後,你們的最終救濟管道,除了單位主管,單位主管很顯然在這個我剛剛提出的幾個事件來講,它是失效的,那到底要誰來處理?這是誰能夠提出報告出來?是人事行政總處呢?還是考試院?還是你們各自為政? |
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跟委員報告就是說在公務人員保障法其實還有安慰辦法他都有相關的規定那另外就是說如果是屬於人民懲刑案件的話在人民懲刑案件的處理上面他在相關規定不是人民懲刑就是公務員懲刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
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這邊講人民其實也包括公務人員因為他跟機關提出陳情這個機關依規定你就是要去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
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那如果對於機關的處理或者回復有不符的話那當然他這個如果是屬於管理措施剛剛陳儒考試院代表所提的如果他對這個管理措施他認為機關處理不符的話他可以有保障法的救濟在保訓會那邊也有相關的救濟規定所以最後的救濟是在保訓會是不是公務人員好 謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
157209 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157209 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T14:08:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T14:17:01+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |