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| 委員名稱 |
廖偉翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:54:00 - 13:07:50 |
| 影片長度 |
830 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 有請何部長部長好 可以感覺出來你也承受很大的壓力了但是我們今天討論這個東西就是希望把這件事情釐清調查清楚還給社會一個公道部長 請先跟大眾說明一下什麼是目的良善目的良善 你們報告裡面寫的目的良善 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
44.028 |
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主席你要不要暫停一下 讓那個 讓 主席要不要暫停一下時間 讓部長的情緒緩和一下好 我想 嗯 謝偏署長 確實有霸凌的行為確實有霸凌的行為 像破地牢上這樣的用語錯了 我們承認錯誤所以你調查就是確實 確實有霸凌的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
71.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.716 |
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我想要問這次勞動部的無姓同仁的親身的漢氏 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
97.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
111.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
為什麼悲劇發生在11月4號要一直到11月8號才從社群媒體網路得知?難道我們勞動部的長官們都要看報紙才會做事嗎?看社群有事情才會做事情嗎?拖了4天不啟動調查的原因是什麼?委員我一直在本來就有在思考要啟動調查思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
127.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.798 |
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家屬希望低調跟調查也是兩件事吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
155.821 |
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182.507 |
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我想要問那啟動調查比較慢這些拖的時間難道會不會讓人家覺得你們是在處理輿論也就是我們所謂的壓新聞這就是讓大眾非常疑惑的地方所以如果是這樣的話我想現在是預算會期勞動部的這種媒體宣傳的經費是會有問題的因為這樣看起來你們延後調查就是有這種讓人家覺得壓新聞的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
185 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
211.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我沒有能力壓新聞好我等一下繼續另外我同樣想要問你因為你們18號得知拖到12號14號才開始訪談嘛那另外這個出勤打卡紀錄今天應該也很多人問過一切看起來沒有問題可是監視器他就是有加班但我想請問你們掌握這樣的情形有掌握到多久他這樣的情況有多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
216.622 |
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217.383 |
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你們有去訪談說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
242.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
255.691 |
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這麼多的工作量這個謝信長官也算是他們單位的直屬長官難道不知道嗎那這些工作甚至有可能是他直接交辦到無緣吧那你們有沒有去談他知不知道無緣加班的這個事實你是指謝信長官知不知道無緣加班的事實對你們有去問他嗎有調查問他嗎我想他不了解吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
271.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
285.661 |
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你想他不了解,所以你調查裡面也沒有去問這件事,對不對?然後如果沒有談,那要怎麼知道長官做了什麼,還有什麼事情才是真正讓委員會壓力大到輕生的真正原因?這就是沒有調查清楚嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
286.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
302.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以現在的結論就是如果本人不反應遭到霸凌出情表上看起來正常那無論其他人怎麼反應申訴陳情這些上級長官都不會處理就一定要搞到出了人命新聞壓不下來才要處理囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
304.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
319.909 |
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是嗎那我再問訪談相關人固然重要但是要釐清調查真相的相關工作的資料例如LINE、EMAIL等才可以更細入的更深入的去了解請問這部分有做調查嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
323.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
324.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好我請處長來回答好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
354.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
354.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
部長． |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
364.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
383.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我問你這個邏輯非常奇怪你認為家屬在這個無緣被霸凌輕生之後會去跟霸凌者講說不好意思喔就算我家人都被你們霸凌到死我還是希望你們這位始作俑者一直低調不要上媒體這個邏輯就是就是這樣大眾就是這樣看的好回到調查結論就是兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
385.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
412.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
現在你們說謝信這個可能要停職嘛對不對本來是說調職但是今天質詢了一天之後你受不了說停職好依問卷訪談及相關的證據顯示謝信長官沒有霸凌你剛剛也就說他是有霸凌是不是你也改口了嘛對不對不是委員我還是要再強調一次他有對其他的同仁霸凌對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.799 |
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442.59 |
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那麼他是通過他對當事者也許他有霸凌是因為通過當通過這樣子層層傳導的方式而形成的所以我想下一個下一個結論喔我們我是要再問早上再繼續追問下去喔我想要請問一下喔這一次的調查裡面這些這些人都是這個謝信長官的舊事有沒有難道沒有迴避的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
444.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
466.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
包含著召集人,包含著黃琳娜次長,還有吳雅惠參事他們都不是調查小組成員都不是,但是他不在裡面,但是難道沒有這個相關的關係嗎?召集人在調查小組裡,但是其他的長官都在救市,這個有沒有,其中有沒有牽扯到大家共同來押案子的問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
467.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
484.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這也是要求你們調查很重要的地方我要表達的事情告訴你的是這一次霸凌申訴調查小組只有兩位外部委員的加入只在小組的九分之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
484.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我會處理最後我要繼續追問事發過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
507.219 |
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532.952 |
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你有沒有嘗試要把事情壓掉或者是持案你跟署長能夠發誓問心聞愧的摸著你們的良心說完全沒有嗎?絕對沒有有的話你是不是有說要負起政治責任嘛對不對早上那是不是政治責任的意思是說要以下台以示負責是是嘛對不對好那我告訴你你就是有這樣的狀況 |
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535.253 |
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552.05 |
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因為如果沒有施壓、施案的話我想要請問部長為什麼要通過黨的系統副秘書長何柏文去聯絡李雨祥一人我想問為什麼要這樣這不是施案我跟你講為什麼這樣可以說是有施壓嫌疑 |
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552.771 |
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569.92 |
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因為議員的服務處、議員的手機這個都可以公開都可以找得到的你要聯絡議員服務處非常的簡單何必要透過黨的系統去聯絡議員呢這就好像是你找了你找了比如說你過去可能在 |
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571.02 |
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583.096 |
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科建民總召委員的辦公室工作過然後呢科總召可能又跟某個委員關係特別好然後你明明可以直接找到那個委員然後你就是特別跟這個科總召說你幫我跟那個委員講一聲好不好 |
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583.96 |
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600.74 |
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這樣子就是有間接讓人社會大眾覺得這叫做間接性的好像說我被關切了我是不是要小心一點因為你透過的是黨的系統所以我要告訴你這個東西就是間接性的施壓而且也可以視為想要試圖有試圖有嫌疑試圖要押案的這個狀況 |
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603.188 |
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629.637 |
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委員你認為李議員他後來有停止對我的監督嗎?完全沒有啊沒有這種東西這種東西這只能夠說這樣子施壓不代表他一定會被你壓嘛對不對但是你這就是過程你用你透過黨的高層來告訴我就好像你說今天你找了這個高層來這裡跟一個議員說他找你喔這個勞動部長找你他會不會覺得說我好像被施壓了 |
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630.458 |
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647.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是這個樣子那我問你那你整個內容是什麼你有跟他聯絡上嗎跟誰跟這個議員那個李議員啊我本人嗎對那為什麼你要透過秘書那個副秘書長何柏文去聯絡這個議員呢 |
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649.656 |
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676.381 |
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我們當然跟他聯繫上啊因為我們必須提供資料給委員給議員啊所以我請我的我請我的這個同仁慕瑤同仁提供資料給他是這樣而已我要告訴你也是部長你居然透過外部的第三人去聯繫爆料的明袋那有證據現場如果有證據有沒有什麼證據不公開我想問聽說有不具名的說現場也有留下類似遺書的東西請問內容是什麼有嗎什麼現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
679.861 |
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681.502 |
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你們有沒有認真地去調查這件事情? |
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706.346 |
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706.366 |
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委員﹗ |
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730.168 |
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755.845 |
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因為這個是家屬的痛啦我當然知道是家屬的痛我們都不希望憾事再發生所以我還是要回過頭來說基本上部長就是我只能說說你透過了外部人透過了黨的系統去聯繫爆料的明帶而且明帶的資料很好去聯繫我隨便上網找你就找得到這個李議員服務處的聯絡方式甚至議會都很容易找到 |
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756.545 |
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771.708 |
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所以我要告訴你的是你這樣的行為就會讓人家覺得這不是詞案那什麼是詞案因為你明明有很正當的管道可以去聯繫的所以我要說那這樣子算不算需要負責任你在做這件事情之前你有沒有深思熟慮過 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
785.725 |
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785.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
其實上﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
808.553 |
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825.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
事實上你可以用很正當的管道去告訴他們說發生什麼事我來跟你報告我把資料跟你講但是你卻透過了同一個派系的永延會的副秘書長要去跟這個李議員講我跟你講這不是慈安什麼是慈安好 謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
157187 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157187 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T12:54:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T13:07:50+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |