| IVOD_ID |
157166 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157166 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T11:40:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T11:49:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eab5ac812cd1375f89d399d0c714afe65c3aee312d9b2381ac39149460bbc69c5a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:40:27 - 11:49:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長、桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長、中華航空股份有限公司董事長及桃園航勤股份有限公司董事長就「如何強化遭遇顯著危害天氣現象之飛航安全與人力配置暨如何落實地面勤務之安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部民用航空局單位預算。
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金－民航事業作業基金分預算。
四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管桃園國際機場股份有限公司營業預算。
【本日僅進行詢答】【11月18日、20日二天一次會】） |
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好謝謝主席本期邀請我們交通部陳部長陳部長桃機公司楊董事長好楊董事長部長是喂喂好你知道我們桃機公司啊 |
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他有個目標他說希望明年在機場檢探認證就所謂的綠色機場能夠再提升一級我們目前是第三級LV3希望能夠提高到LV4 |
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61.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為我們今天本來就是有要討論如何落實地勤的業務所以我這兩個問題來跟部長交我一下意見我們先來看一下你如果要落實節能減碳就你要減碳的話第一個地面勤務很重要你知道我們現在的空測什麼叫空測知道嗎部長空測就是航廈以外的地方叫空測就是空間那地面上 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
72.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
的運具啦運具就是你可能有載行李的啦載人的啦或者是拖飛機的啦你知道有多少台嗎4554台運具啦那目前啦電動車的數量有多少你知道我寫給你看啦333啦油電車有109也就是說目前的機場淘機裡面的空車運具 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
108.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
地面的運具全部有4500多台只有不到10%是所謂的綠能車輛如果你桃機又自己定一個目標他說2030年他希望運具電動化能夠達到50%有可能嗎我再跟你來探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
109.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
133.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那你第一個先把這些運具你如果把它電動化、綠能化這很重要這幾千台在地面每天都排放碳因為他們都是幾乎都是柴油動力的嘛那目前淘機要開始改為如果你要求地勤的這些運具要用電動的話那電動車那你需要什麼你需要充電樁嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
過去民航局曾經協助推動民航局第一個設立充電樁第二個電費要補助我們來看一下如果桃機都自己定一個目標了現在的充電樁有多少台我給部長看一下現在有43座充電樁那是108年設立的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
192.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
接下來的109年到113年到今年設立多少零啦過去5年來連一具充電樁都沒有增加啦那現在目標定到明年他說明年要增設6座只有6座喔那淘汰既有19座那你知道目前設立這些充電樁啦把一台車輛喔既有現在淘機在跑的那個車輛喔充飽電要多久你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
要8小時到10小時所以它屬於慢充全部都是慢充啦淘氣公司現有的充電裝全部都是慢充充飽一台電動車輛運具啦要8到10個小時那你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
現在在基調公司的三家地勤現在都有嘛 桃勤 桃勤在做航空啦第二個 新宇也有 長榮也有他們怎麼會願意做呢然後電費補助也取消那充電樁啊 很貴耶一基頭要一百萬啦 如果你效率高一點的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那你現在民進黨的補助有沒有啦那你也不去設充電樁啦電位補助有沒有而且啊電路還沒有你如果地勤業者你要自己設立電路那他們怎麼會有意願那怎麼達到所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
274.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
明年綠色機場還要升級這個目標做得到嗎也就是說我的主題就是你桃機想要取得綠能機場的升級那麼你要把地勤業務把機場所有的在裡面營運的都要當作你的夥伴 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
而不是把減碳的責任推給他們自己去享受減碳機場升級的美名所謂的你要把地勤業務納為夥伴像華航華航最近就跟淘寢的費用協商好了這要肯定一下華航他們20幾年來費用都沒有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
309.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那這樣地勤公司他哪有資源哪有經費去提升他該有的服務和設備嘛那現在淘氣公司也是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
310.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那部長回答一次楊董事長報告委員在建制的過程當中桃機公司的策略我這樣聽起來應該是比較主要是溝通這些地勤公司他們自己去建制在裡頭的在他們裡面的讓他們自己去建制那這個部分委員的意思應該是希望說我們政府應該要更甚至是桃機公司要有更大的補助或者是誘因讓他們願意去改成電動化 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
343.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你經費上你電費有沒有補助?是,是不是不請董事長也補助?充電裝你叫他自己設他還沒有電力捏電力系統也沒有捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
346.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
350.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟委員報告這個是一個必須要做的事情那怎麼樣加快腳步現在正在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
368.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
393.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那第二個就剛剛我們看到的這個現有的43座的充電窗都是桃集公司的充電窗是慢充的沒有錯我們現在第一個目標是現有的慢充要改成快充那第二個就是我們的三行下目前的建設計畫裡面也有帶26座的這個快充另外就是包括業者的部分業者的部分其實他自己本身的廠房他也有這些機區要停放的地方我們也希望那你們從來沒有坐下來談啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
411.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你都在那裡說話聽,你沒跟他們說過而且部長,一共43座慢充要改為快充,明年一年才改6座,你要分幾年啊?對不對?而且你只有6座,那你剩下的幾十座也沒有人要用啦,充一台車要充8小時到10小時你早上充到夕陽下山還在充欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
446.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我再請教齁這個部分我們來加速啦電路有沒有問題啦這電的供應有沒有問題啦現況來講是沒有問題沒有問題啦那我請教齁你說淘機供電量沒有問題那我請教齁長榮地勤最近他要買10台電源機組他要給飛機用那這個電源機組就是他要有一種像這電子的電力機啊齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他要用買他要買電的啦淘氣公司說電不夠啦有沒有這件事情所以長榮最近要買他只好買再回去買柴油引擎的發電機啊是不是這樣我想這部分我還不完全清楚你不完全清楚我們回去以後會馬上查那以現況來講因為淘氣現在的第三航廈正在做長榮要買10台我再跟你講他買這個就是要有飛機用的啦是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你現在往綠能機場走,他要買電池的發電機,就是用電池在發電的,又回頭去買柴油發電,因為投機工藝既定的電不夠,你剛才跟我說電能工藝沒有問題,那他為什麼買柴油的? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
501.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
527.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個回去以後馬上查那在電的供應上面我們會來協調因為台電公司你不能只講你明年要升級你什麼時候要升級啊你連這個你連這個地勤公司他要他要他要用買電子的發電機你就沒辦法買啊你又叫他買柴油對不對連最基本的充電樁你也沒有然後你又改四十幾座你明年才要改六座 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
529.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如果照這個速度你要改8年欸那你怎麼可能所以不能這樣說話啦我希望董事長你要來重視這個事情好不好部長這個事情應該要督促一下當然沒有錯好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝主席 |
| gazette.lineno |
719 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（11時40分）謝謝主席。本席有請交通部陳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請陳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
林委員俊憲：桃機公司楊董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：請楊董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
林委員俊憲：部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳部長世凱：是，委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
林委員俊憲：你知道桃機公司有個目標，希望明年在機場減碳認證、也就是綠色機場評比中再提升一級，目前是第三級、Level 3，希望提高到Level 4啦！我們今天本來也就要討論如何落實地勤業務啦！所以我以這兩個問題跟部長交換一下意見。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳部長世凱：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
林委員俊憲：我們先看一下，如果要落實節能減碳、也就是減碳的話，第一個，地面勤務很重要。你知道我們現在的空側，什麼叫空側你知道嗎，部長？就是航廈以外的地方叫空側啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳部長世凱：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
林委員俊憲：就是指空間啦！至於地面上的運具，可能有載行李的啦！載人的啦！或是拖飛機的啦！你知道有多少臺嗎？有4,554臺運具。那目前電動車的數量有多少你知道嗎？我寫給你看，333輛啦！油電車有109輛。也就是說，目前在桃機裡的空側運具、地面運具全部有四千五百多臺，但只有不到10%是綠能車輛啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
桃機又自己訂一個目標，2030年希望運具電動化能夠達到50%，有可能嗎？我要跟你探討啦！第一，先把這些運具電動化、綠能化很重要啊！這幾千臺在地面，每天都排放碳耶！因為它們幾乎都是柴油動力的車輛嘛！目前桃機要開始改為……如果要求地勤這些運具使用電動車輛的話，那電動車輛需要什麼？需要充電樁嘛！過去民航局曾經協助推動，所以民航局做的是第一個工作，就是設立充電樁嘛！第二個就是電費要補助啦！那我們來看一下，既然桃機都自己訂一個目標了，那現在的充電樁有多少臺？我給部長看一下，現在有43座充電樁啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳部長世凱：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
林委員俊憲：那是108年設立的。接下來的109年到113年、也就是到今年設立了多少？零啦！過去五年來，連一具充電樁都沒有增加啦！而桃機目標訂到明年，說是明年要增設6座，只有6座喔！並且要淘汰既有19座。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
以目前設立的這些充電樁要把一臺既有、現在桃機地勤正在跑的車輛充飽電要多久，你知道嗎？要8小時到10小時。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳部長世凱：所以它屬於慢充。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
林委員俊憲：現在全部都是慢充啊！桃機公司現有充電裝置全部都是慢充啊！充飽一臺電動車輛──運具啦！要8到10個小時。那你說，在機場的三家地勤──現在都有嘛！桃勤──桃勤應該就是華航啦！第二，星宇也有，長榮也有，他們怎麼會願意做呢？然後，電費補助也取消。設充電樁是很貴的耶！一支差不多要100萬元啦！如果效率要高一點的話。但現在民航局的補助沒有了、你們就沒再設充電樁，電費補助又沒有。而且連電路也還沒有！如果地勤業者必須自己設立電路，那他們怎麼會有意願？要怎麼達到明年綠色機場評比升級？這個目標做得到嗎？我的主題就是桃機想取得綠能機場評比升級，就應該把地勤業務等所有在機場裡面營運的都當作夥伴，而不是把減碳的責任推給他們，自己享受減碳機場升級這樣的美名啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][1] |
所謂要把地勤業務納為夥伴，就像華航，華航最近就跟桃勤把費用協商好啦！這點要肯定一下華航，他們二十幾年來費用都沒有調整嘛！但你知道地勤公司哪有資源、哪有經費提升該有的服務和設備嘛！現在桃機公司也是啊！部長要回答？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳部長世凱：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
林委員俊憲：還是楊董事長？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳部長世凱：報告委員，照我這樣聽起來，在建置的過程當中，桃機公司的策略主要應該是溝通這些地勤公司，由他們自己建置啦！也就是在機場裡頭的，讓他們自己建置。至於委員的意思應該是希望政府、甚至是桃機公司應該提供更大的補助或是誘因，讓他們願意改成電動化…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
林委員俊憲：他們哪有錢？不只經費上，電費也沒有補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳部長世凱：是不是容我請董事長也說明？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
林委員俊憲：就算你叫他們充電站自己設，但還是沒有電力欸！電力系統也沒有耶！要形成一個正循環的話，大家就應該是夥伴關係嘛！大家來做嘛！哪有把減碳的責任都推給地勤公司？對它有誘因嗎？它有能力做嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳部長世凱：是，我請董事長回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：跟委員報告，這是一件必須做的事，至於要怎麼加快腳步，現在正在進行。第二，我們剛剛看到的現有43座充電樁都是桃機公司的充電樁，但是慢充的沒有錯。我們現在第一個目標是將現有的慢充改成快充，第二，在三航廈目前的建置計畫裡，也帶了26座快充。另外就是包括業者的部分，業者自己的廠房有這些機具要停放的地方，我們也希望…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林委員俊憲：但你們從來沒有坐下來談啊！你都講給我聽，沒有對他們講過啊！而且，部長，他說43座慢充要改為快充，但明年一年才改6座！要分幾年啊？對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳部長世凱：是，速度要加快。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林委員俊憲：一年只改6座，剩下幾十座也沒有人要用啊！充一臺車要8小時到10小時啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳部長世凱：對啊！現在沒有環境讓大家願意用。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林委員俊憲：等於從早上充到夕陽下山還在充！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳部長世凱：對，這部分我們來加速。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林委員俊憲：那我再請教，電路有沒有問題啦？也就是電的供應有沒有問題啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：以現況來講沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林委員俊憲：沒有問題？那我請教喔！你說桃機供電量沒有問題，那我請教，長榮地勤最近要買10台電源機組，目的是給飛機用，這種電源機組要有一種像是電池的動力機啦！也就是要買電動的啦！但是桃機公司說電不夠。有沒有這件事情？所以長榮因為最近要買，只好再回去買柴油引擎的發電機，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：這部分我還不完全清楚…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林委員俊憲：你不完全清楚？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：我們回去以後會馬上查。以現況來講，因為桃機現在正在做第三航廈，所以我們的電力會再加強。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林委員俊憲：我再跟你講，長榮買這10臺就是要給飛機用的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
林委員俊憲：你們現在要往綠能機場走，它也要買電池的發電機，講難聽一點就是用電池發電的啦！卻又回頭買柴油發電機，因為桃機說他們機場的電不夠。你剛剛跟我說電能供應沒有問題，那它為什麼要買柴油的？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：針對這個問題，我回去以後馬上查。在電的供應上面，我們也會協調，因為台電公司…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
林委員俊憲：你不能只講明年要升級，問題是你要怎麼升級啦？連地勤公司要買用電池的發電機都沒辦法買、你還叫它回頭買柴油的，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
林委員俊憲：連最基本的充電樁也沒有，現有四十幾座明年才要改6座，如果照這個速度要改8年！怎麼可能？不能只用嘴巴喊啦！我希望楊董事長重視這件事情，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
楊董事長偉甫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
林委員俊憲：部長，這件事情要督促一下啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳部長世凱：是，當然、當然，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，謝謝部長、謝謝董事長、謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
主席：謝謝林委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][1] |
接下來有請蔡其昌委員，蔡其昌、蔡其昌委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][2] |
接下來請陳雪生委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
362 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-23-10 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
291 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310302 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310302_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長、桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長、中華
航空股份有限公司董事長及桃園航勤股份有限公司董事長就「如何強化遭遇顯著危害天氣現象之
飛航安全與人力配置暨如何落實地面勤務之安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查114
年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部民用航空局單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附
屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─民航事業作業基金分預算；四、審查114
年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管桃園國際機場股份有限公司營業預
算（僅進行詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310302_00003 |