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| 委員名稱 |
黃秀芳 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:54:30 - 11:08:05 |
| 影片長度 |
815 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席,我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
15.714 |
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41.192 |
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委員好部長好部長我還是針對我們這個勞動部這個北分署霸凌的這個事件那我有看到你們的行政調查那我一個很好奇就是說這件事在11月4號發生那你們的調查竟然寫說11月8號你們是透過這個媒體才知道確實是這樣子嗎我看到的那個媒體對 |
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43.683 |
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46.084 |
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媒體知道什麼?拿我們的報告給我一下好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.138 |
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93.914 |
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跟委員報告因為11月4號我們接獲訊息之後有跟家屬有聯繫那家屬跟我們強調說這個要低調處理對所以一直都是在處理這個當事人的狀況所以勞動部當時還不清楚我們已經都部長你是什麼時候知道這件事的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.454 |
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113.55 |
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我11月4號就知道了當然當然當然我是看到你們的這個報告上面是這樣寫說勞動部是11月8號是透過這個社群媒體才知道這件事應該是說他那個敘述是11月8號社群媒體發文啦他從那邊開始敘述起啦就是11月8號社群媒體上有發文對然後 |
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121.597 |
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146.839 |
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我們針對這個開始去進行了解所以你們時間11月4號發生的時候你們都完全沒有去了解為什麼這個同仁會選擇了斷自己這樣的一個事情那時候我們讓北分署跟老花署自己去調查那麼因為他們跟家屬接觸的過程裡面家屬希望低調所以那時候應該都有進行溝通 |
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148.46 |
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169.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
另外一個就是說剛剛也有很多委員特別提到就是在今年的2月份基層在2月份都已經陳情了那這個王市長也有約談這個北分署的分署長就是說聽說是喝咖啡聊這件事那這件事後續好像就不了了之 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.57 |
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黃秀芳議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
192.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
黃秀芳市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
既然基層都已經陳情然後次長找這個署長這個北分署署長來談談完之後沒有處理也就罷了那這個分署長還就是要去找看是誰洩密那我覺得真的是這個我這件事情發生之後我真的非常希望就是我們勞動部甚至其他的部會一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.384 |
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真的要建立起一個基層員工基層同仁的這個陳情要有一個機制而不是陳情之後你又交給當事人又交給當事人去處理這件事你部長如果以你的話你覺得這樣妥當嗎當然不妥當對那未來如果還有這樣的事情發生你們要怎麼處理那絕對是也是也是徹查對啊要來那你們現在有建立一個機制了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.758 |
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有押案、施案的狀況我們要如何處置? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想委員就是對我們對於這個基層的同仁有申訴的話當然我們就是會尋這個什麼員工防護小組然後那看我們會進行調查調查之後然後看如何處理這個其實本來就有機制啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那機制你現在如果有機制的話怎麼會變成是次長次長又約分署長分署長後面再來說是誰洩密然後後面就不了了之啊不是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
委員對因為這不是正式他正因為是主要是次長當時也沒有去把他列案那我也不知道當時為什麼他沒有去列案這當然就無從處理啊會變這樣所以這是一個大也是一個大問題是沒有錯對可是當時就是沒有列案啊那那應該要詢問當事人為什麼當時沒有列案所以我覺得這個未來也是要是一個檢討的一個方向啦另外我想請教就是說剛剛也有委員特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
北分署長跟我們的那個許次長以前是同事嘛那你們列列的這個調查這個調查小組那很多的這個小組的成員跟這個可能跟北分署長這個可能關係也都不錯那如果說你成立這樣的一個調查小組來調查我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
370.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
392.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為基層也有很多人反映說其實這樣調查結果其實很多人也會覺得說跟事實可能有一些出路所以我也想要請部長針對這樣子的一個調查小組也許你們要成立這樣的調查小組你不知道說這個跟這個當事人是什麼樣的關係也許不知道如果知道之後我覺得你們應該也要做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對委員就是說其實我們的所有政務官都會秉公辦理的啦不應該去就是說好避險當然為了利益迴避我當時請許傳聖次長其實因為許傳聖次長雖然有跟謝分署長有過舊事可是他也沒有跟他有直接的聯繫啦所以而且許傳聖次長本身就督導勞派署 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
420.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
黃秀芳議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
437.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那當然是這個後來這個網路上爆料說認為說這個許長勝次長跟謝分署長有舊事可是說真的對我的認知我也不認為許次長是一位會徇私的人啦他也是蠻公正蠻大公無私的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
454.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那所以他才有這個要當我們的次長嗎所以部長這件事其實我會覺得說這個你們從上到下真的確實真的要好好的檢討如果說一個員工如果從一個這個同仁可以這樣子長期時間我剛剛看就是說你們這個單位就是他有公務人員的身份就只有一位其他都是承染人員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
504.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那如果是這樣的話我剛剛我有聽部長講說確實要從根本去去做一些改進如果全部都是這樣子的話那全部的壓力都是在這個公務人員身上那我不知道說你們目前有多少業務是大部分都是承染就是全部都外包出去你們自己有做一個統計嗎我想請組長回答好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告我們發言署因為業務真的是非常龐雜我們現在編制人力就是我們正式公務員大概只有700多位是我們的業用人員就是臨時人員大概1000多位其他我們大概現在有接近2000位的承攬人力是也就是我們每4位只有一位正式公務員是其實這個業務其實跟我們人力的編制的結構其實非常的落差非常大是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這部分我們覺得這也是必須要去檢討所以這個確實是從根本真的我覺得真的要好好的去做檢討啦可能也要跟行政院這邊真的確實把這麼重要然後你說四位四位就只有一位是公務人員其他可能就是承攬的就是非常的誇張啦而且照道理如果根據法律的話根據那法規的話每一個分署都應該要一個正式的治安人員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
對,結果我這一位離開的同仁他本身還是勞法署派來的是兼任的是他不是北分署正式的編制喔那顯然就是我們每一個分署其實也都缺乏一位正式的治安人員那我們的治安業務量又非常非常龐大因為後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這兩三年來包括很多外部會的要求對,所以都是非常累積啦,都是非常累積性的確實我覺得說真的勞法署剛剛署長講的業務非常的龐大那不只是勞動部、勞法署其實其他單位應該也都是有類似這樣的一個狀況所以我接下來我是不是可以請這個今天人事人事這邊應該有 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
612.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
623.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有過來嗎?今天人事處人總不是是我們今天沒有那個行政院這邊的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
654.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
行政總處是不是可以針對就是所有公務體系、公務機關、公務人員或者是各單位、公務人員或者是承攬,你們自己有去做一個統計嗎?到底有多少的單位,然後確實有人力的需求,可是就因為人力不足,所以就需要用承攬或用約聘僱這樣的一個方式。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
655.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
680.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
報告委員我想說首先還是要講一下其實我們要運用哪一種人力類型其實都是要看照他的那個工作的那個內容還有他指揮監督的必要性那當然理解發展署他目前的人力結構有三種比如說像職員、約用或是他們的承攬人力但是相信他們應該都是基於工作的需要去選擇他們要的人力類型比如說是不是可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
681.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
708.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
也要了解一下發展署他們現在在承攬人力上他們大概都是請他們做什麼樣的工作對就是說承攬承攬的人員其實你也不能賦予他很大的一個責任是對啊所以我覺得這個真的是從根本要去做一個解決今天會發生這樣的事情第一個可能也許工作量真的確實非常的大那再來就是說職場的霸凌我也同意就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
709.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
真的勞動部這邊真的要從根本去做一個解決如果今天不從根本做一個解決我覺得這個還是會有第二件的這樣的類似的狀況來發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
722.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我也希望就是說這個這邊我們人事總處這邊真的確實也要反映所有的公務單位如果真的需要正式的公務人員就是說有需要的話你就是真的要把它編制下去而不是用承攬的那承攬的所有的壓力就全部在這個機關這個單位剛剛講的這個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
資訊單位這個資訊是就只有一個公務就是正式的公務人員其他都是這個承攬人員所以我覺得說把所有的壓力都放在這個這個正式的公務人員身上其實我也覺得說真的非常的不合適所以我覺得是所有人事體系應該要全部做一個總體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
769.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
797.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
其實發展署他們本身是有資訊室的就我們了解但是目前各分署他是沒有資訊單位那看到按照他的發展所的組織法規看起來他們的資訊業務應該都是偏向向上集中到三級發展署那所以這塊就是其實還是看看我們可以看看發展署他們怎麼去因為這件事情然後去檢討他們內部的就是比如說像他們的資源配置跟人力配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
797.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
797.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
黃秀芳 |
| IVOD_ID |
157140 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157140 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T10:54:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T11:08:05+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |