| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eab29e66d89fd38b75f73c40c09ffa5b8b02ae224b9eab90f61d6c7337b7bc4e0405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:51:43 - 10:08:12 |
| 影片長度 |
989 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管（不含審計部及所屬）收支部分。
【僅進行詢答；預算提案於11月25日中午12時截止收件】） |
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吳宗憲委員 |
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26.972 |
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53.526 |
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委員好秘書長早安請問秘書長我想秘書長現在擔任監察院的秘書長那一定很清楚監察院的職權是什麼嗎應該都非常的清楚那我想請問一下秘書長到底這個犯罪偵查決定被告要不要羈押或是對於被告要不要實施這個科技監控這個是不是監察委員的工作 |
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54.609 |
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81.091 |
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這個不是確定不是嘛這個是司法院的工作司法院跟檢察法官跟檢察官的工作也不是司法院的工作嘛好那這個沒有錯這邏輯是完全正確但是呢監察院在11月7號的新聞稿有提到說他要而且他是明確就個案說台南地檢署對於被告涉嫌犯罪嫌疑重大有串證滅證通知於為何為像 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.553 |
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106.781 |
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台南地院申請科技監控有無重放等重大疏失還有台南地院有無延遲開庭導致被告逃亡然後這個東西不是就這東西監察委員可以查嗎是兩個部分我跟吳委員報告第一個部分監察委員獨立行使職權所以委員要查什麼我們沒辦法干涉那第二個這個案子查的是防逃機制 |
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107.741 |
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131.409 |
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防逃機制有關防逃機制我們查過7個案什麼叫防逃機制就是在這個過程當中院檢有沒有疏失造成人犯跑掉那所以這個就是防逃機制包括過去的朱國榮這一次的陳取譽都是防逃機制所以監察委員調查是這一個部分好那個林市長我跟你報告一件事情我跟你講一次非常的荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.194 |
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163.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
從這件事情我們也可以看到我們這邊立委的水準以及非常多的民嘴側翼他們的特定立場我在11月4號的時候帶委員會去考察北檢有關偵查不公開的部分我們是就通案討論偵查不公開而且我們出發前以及到北檢之後都再三的說我們不討論個案我們也全程錄影避免被扣帽子那結果我們去看完北檢之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
164.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
183.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
檢察官我還請以前的同事看著檢察官論壇幾乎都是在抱怨北檢違反偵查不公開沒什麼人抱怨我們去去那個北檢去了解為什麼經常性的違反偵查不公開好結果呢我們這樣子去回來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
184.485 |
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210.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一堆披著律師外衣的側翼就開始攻擊這個立法委員介入個案然後呢包括一些名嘴也跳出來說我們介入個案甚至批評說我以前當檢察官就有帶隊介入個案還有包括本委員會的吳思亞委員跟鍾嘉斌委員都跳出來說這個叫介入個案但是我剛說的 |
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212.08 |
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237.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
檢察官論壇只有檢察官進得去的檢察官論壇沒什麼人批評我們幾乎都批評北檢檢察官有一個叫做建清檢改團體就是檢察官才能成立的團體那這個團體也沒有批評我們結果我們被瘋狂的說我們是介入個案結果監察院在11月7號發新聞稿是就台南地檢地院的個案他直接調查這個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.206 |
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264.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
結果反而是檢察官起來抗議建清檢改直接發新聞稿抗議結果本委員會的吳思耀委員．宗家編委員都身影不見了還有一堆名嘴跟長期的側翼律師也都不見了所以兩相比較之下我為什麼提我們去北檢以及提監察院處理南檢這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
265.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
281.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
兩個非常明顯一個就不就個案就通案的去看長期為什麼北檢經常的違反偵查不公開結果被瘋狂的說我們介入個案結果監察院是直接點名要查哪一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
283.372 |
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308.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
卻沒有任何一個人跑這些自稱在維護司法正義的律師律師民嘴以及本委員會的幾位委員卻都不見了我覺得這個非常的明顯然後我再跟您報告一件事情監察院自己的網站也寫得很清楚啊司法調查中的案子監察院不會介入那你剛剛說他今天要查的是一個什麼防逃機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
312.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在台南的這個案子其實很明顯的一件事情就是他的問題是出在檢察官申請羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
334.522 |
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355.983 |
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那檢察官怎麼申請其實這是檢察官的職權法官放不放人這個是法官的職權法官即便在這個案子他採的見解跟以往高院已經最高法院的法律見解不同這個我們也是尊重司法獨立審判所以我多次公開講南檢南院其實沒有違法上面的問題 |
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358.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
358.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
379.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
405.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
秘書長 因為從上個會期到現在 我跟你討過很多次案子我真的覺得你不是像某些政務官是不講理的所以我可以接受你說監察委員獨立行使職權就像法院院長常搞不定法官一樣 這我都可以理解但是秘書長 是不是可以如同上個會期我跟秘書長您請教的高永誠在調查臺中地檢那個查詢問求案的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
406.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
您提的上個會期提的這個陳榮祥案我們後來也做了討論高委員也有在我們的院會裡面提出他的說明那他的說明是說其實懲戒法院認為確有為師只是還沒有到懲處的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
428.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
430.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是我跟你講就是說是這樣啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
447.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
456.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
您在去年預算會期的時候 您曾經有委員詢問過您監察權的事情 我這邊說明一下您當時說的 您說監察權是事後權 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不是監察院追求的目標那監察院查的是公務員有無違法失職所以如果犯罪事實還沒有調查完就介入怕會掛一漏外然後你還說監察院查的東西跟檢調單位不一樣監察院甚至要在檢調做完調查以後再介入所以監察院不追求時效性釐清相關事實才是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我到現在還是堅持這個原則這是監察法實行細則27條的相關規定但是這次委員做的完全不一樣啊委員獨立行使職權我沒有評論可是民主黨你真的不能夠給委員建議或什麼嗎所以我剛才提過了我們在委員裡面有大家有不同的意見有討論過那我作為幕僚長我不適合去評論委員你要不要這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
秘書長你在107年10月的時候107年10月你在質詢當時的監察院你也曾經講過一個東西你說案件怎麼調查跟監察院沒有關係法官做的爛也是司法院的問題跟偵查權無關你也批評監察委員不能不務正業所以從你以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
534.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
552.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
立場因為我知道您剛有說你立場沒有變過那我也非常認同您的立場但是如果以您的立場再回過頭來看這一次監察某位特定的監察委員對於南檢南院為什麼不實施科技監控為什麼放人為什麼沒有申請我覺得這個部分喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
553.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
567.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
該位監察委員確實跟秘書長您的邏輯是不同的另外一個如果今天監察委員他要調查的是通案性的說法官在認為被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
596.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
沒有羈押必要而放他走的時候需不需要做電子交流等等的監控我覺得如果今天監察院是在處理這件事我想全國的法官檢察官不會有意見但是因為這一次的監察委員就是直接挑明了個案而且連日期什麼時候開庭哪一個被告怎麼樣都講了都全部都點出來那這個這個狀況下其實才會引起為什麼這一次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
620.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
建清檢改他們出來反彈還發新聞稿直接反彈所以我剛才會說比較我們當時去北檢做考察那在座的吳教委員當時也對我們的北檢考察有意見你比較我們去北檢的考察建清檢改沒有意見再去比較這次監察院去調查南檢南院反而造成建清檢改出來反彈其實兩個一比較之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
622.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
636.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我只能就很遺憾的說這位特定的委員確實是已經介入個案的偵查啦我只能跟委員報告說我們委員獨立行止之權我作為幕僚長不會做任何評論但是我的原則一直沒有變 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
663.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
民主黨這樣是不是好像就有點放任委員獨立行使之前你想幹嘛就幹嘛獨立行使之前是憲法賦予的權責這個我們沒有辦法做任何的干涉但是事後我們會跟委員做討論這個我可以理解就像我剛剛跟您報告說其實法官獨立審判院長、庭長常常搞不定這些法官這個我們也很常見很多檢察官也都不聽檢察長的話這個也很常見但是總是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
664.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
673.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
702.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
．審查或審判的背景那我知道裡面也有檢察長出身的那是不是也可以請他去溝通一下其他委員然後能夠給他們一些建議而不是干涉就像吳委員去年提的這個陳榮祥案我們也是在院會裡面有做討論嘛那高委員也做了說明嘛那所以這個部分我們尊重委員的獨立行使之權但是事後我們會有討論會有說明我想齁其實就跟那個秘書長報告其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
703.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
720.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不管立法院或者是誰有沒有介入個案其實在政客的嘴巴說出來只要跟他不同黨你全部叫介入個案你只要跟他同黨他就沒有聲音但是基層的檢察官建金減改協會我以前也是協會的議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
724.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
740.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
他們並沒有設立但是他是一個團體事實上存在那裡他們其實就很明確代表所有的檢察官的心聲如果說今天他們對監察院的這個行為會反彈甚至公開的發表新聞稿我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
741.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
759.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個東西其實很明確了就是檢察官覺得自己的權利自己的獨立行使的職權以及受到侵害所以建議檢改協會他們建議檢改他們才會出來去發表這樣的言論所以我到這裡來我一直很不習慣的一點就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
760.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
政客跟車役永遠只有立場沒有是非他們講出來是胡扯胡說八道完全違反法律規定還可以講得頭頭是道我在這邊多次也經常性的看到這樣可是那些檢察官們基本上他們大致上都不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
792.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以在他們的眼中在檢察官在基層檢察官眼中就是是非對錯嘛你今天我們跳出來說北檢長期違反政法不公開你去檢察官論壇看各地檢常常在攻擊北檢為什麼要這樣違反政法不公開所以他們會有那個正義感會出來講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
794.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
809.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們今天去通案的調查他們就不會有意見可是當監察院這一次我覺得確實是引起他們的不滿所以這些基層檢察官才會出來那今天不管我是不是在幫基層檢察官講話我還是希望一個點就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
809.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
826.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
檢察院檢察權的行使還是不宜介入司法的個案但是就通案性的去了解比如說我剛說的到底一個被告申請羈押法官駁回檢法官駁回檢察官的羈押的時候到底對於重大或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
827.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
827.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
﹚審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
846.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
873.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
很多政客或是側翼所講的講的天花亂墜人民不會不懂這些專業的檢察官法官不會不懂他們只是不敢講話我跟民主黨報告其實我很多以前的同事是這一段時間是非常不爽很多政府的一些作為只是他們在那個位置他不能出來講但他會一直跟我們抱怨甚至他們的立場本來就是很支持政府的在這段時間下來他們也開始會去動搖說到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
874.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
889.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
到底在做什麼所以我只是提出一個這樣子當然我也是很尊重秘書長您跟您的父親都是我非常尊重的對象我也能夠理解說監察委員獨立行使職權這個限制在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
891.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
902.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以我再提一個問題也是大概也是秘書長以前在當立委的時候一直提到說要廢除監察院問題其實我們先不要去講廢除監察院這個議題我只拿一個數據108年到112年彈劾成立的件數是我來念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
908.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
924.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
18件、40件、16件、27件跟20件那到目前為止是今年到目前為止成立23件那我們一共有29個監委那一個人平均不到一件那這樣子是不是他的效能並沒有很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
926.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
954.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
彈劾的要件要很嚴謹因為彈劾會影響後續的發展所以彈劾的要件要非常嚴謹我們今年到現在是20幾件那彈劾的人數超過這個彈劾人數是28人所以這個部分我要特別跟吳委員報告就是我們現在對重大特殊案件的比例增加很多也就是說對大家社會關注的案件我們非常注意這件事情我們查得也非常嚴謹 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
956.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
983.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那有一些老問題我想我就不因為時間的關係那最後我還是跟秘書長講一個就是說是不是可以去建議那一位調查南檢南院的那位監委不是強制他不是限制他就是說跟他道德勸說是不是可以撤回那個調查因為畢竟已經引起基層的法官檢察官不滿了那再麻煩那個秘書長能夠就是您處理怎麼樣處理我都尊重我只是提一下這個議題謝謝秘書長 |
| IVOD_ID |
157104 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157104 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-14 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T09:51:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T10:08:12+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |