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| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:16:56 - 09:27:47 |
| 影片長度 |
651 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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部長請部長昨天的北分署的霸凌案的調查記者會不但沒有釐清真相而且是讓這把火越燒越大因為這是一份前後矛盾邏輯不通官官相互的調查報告我為什麼這樣說呢請您先看簡報你們這個調查報告明確地寫出謝怡榮分署長有大聲咆哮怒罵或貶低同仁行為還導致多人求助身心科 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.699 |
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他在下班會加上要求回訊息．如果沒有及時回覆．會遭責問．接到關於自身的檢舉案．他竟然要是知道檢舉人是誰．對於工作不滿意的同仁就進行排擠．甚至要求員工在上班時間去參加這個跑路活動．壓縮同事的工作時間． |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.038 |
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當然當然當然我們也承認這是霸凌我們在報告裡也承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.504 |
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68.726 |
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部長,我繼續來。勞動部治安署,你剛剛說內部常見的不法侵害,你剛剛提到多使用勞工,不使用公務員,但我覺得基本上保護人民的精神跟原則是一樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.662 |
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他在內部組織常見的不法侵害有五點其中你的報告裡面就自己寫出了三點刨銷入罵、找出檢舉人要檢舉自己的人要求過高因為退文又不給明確的指示賦予不必要工作要人在上班時間去跑步以卸分署長的行為絕對是霸凌但是非常荒謬的調查報告明明列出了一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.722 |
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謝芬署長長久以來的職場霸凌行為但對於這件輕生個案卻說無法證明該員工有遭受長官的職場霸凌請問這到底是什麼邏輯啊你根據這個調查的事實也推不出這樣的結論啊難道謝芬署長霸凌的對象很多很多人就是唯獨沒有這個輕生的這個員工嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
127.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
141.474 |
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我跟委員報告確實是如此部長你暫時先停下來你昨天在記者會上竟然說同人有職場霸凌的感受但這不是造成同人選擇結束生命的直接原因部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
143.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
165.532 |
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這件事是你能斷定的嗎?你是檢調還是法官還是心理師?我認為沒有水落石注之前,部長你做這樣定調,說員工不是因為受霸凌而輕生了,非常的不恰當。部長,勞動部不要你重啟調查,我只要你重寫報告,你根據調查的事實寫出的報告是不符合的。我要求三天內重寫一份報告回來,根據事實就好,不用重啟調查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
167.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
174.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
部長你昨天說會將謝芬署長調離員單位並降為非主管職另外再送內部考機會請問這樣就結案了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
177.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
179.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案還沒有結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
200.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
221.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
縣察院已經啟動調查不是你有送縣察院嗎縣察院是主動是不是委員我必須先完成我內部的懲戒反正如果你不提我會先提我會提案的請不要忘記喔你說你的調查無題不要忘記洪仲秋案國防部自己調查說沒有違法行事結果呢送到檢調以後有沒有違法不要忘記洪仲秋的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
222.842 |
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243.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好再來部長之前崔少哲指出2月份就有人投書謝宜蓉當時的王安班次長進行約談昨天記者會有媒體關心這個議題但是部長你輕輕說這件事不在調查範圍內草草帶過部長為什麼認為這個不在調查範圍呢今年2月王安班次長到底有沒有約談謝宜蓉 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
245.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
268.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
約談事由是什麼?談了什麼?部長你在這邊知道這件事嗎?您知道這件事嗎?我看了媒體的報導你回去看這樣子我今天要求在今天整體結束質詢之前我要求勞動部交出當時這份約談紀錄因為這是過去的事不是現在要做的事我今天就要今天整個質詢你現在部署都知道馬上去調資料我馬上要這個資料今天整個結束之前我要這份約談紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
274.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
285.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這只是一個私下的談話,我們沒有任何記錄。你可以折騰折,我要知道有沒有約談,約談的事由是什麼,至少我可以知道吧。阿部長,其實貴黨的新北市議員已經在臉書貼出了這個北分署員工二月份的陳情書,你看這五點,你去看這個五點,用供電養殖災,浪費這個電費暴漲,言語霸凌怒罵,濫用工廠濫發禮品, |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
308.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
發報標案給特定有人,要求相關時間參加跑步活動,其中二跟五你在調查報告有,一、三、四我拿證據給你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
311.523 |
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330.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員這部分我們都已經在立案調查了先於榮分署長是去年3月1號到任的這個指北分署北分署同仁投訴他為自己喜好的植栽種植大量植栽而且用公費加裝這個我都還第一次聽的軌道燈24小時照明植物 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
331.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
331.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這算不算貪汙?要不要移送檢調? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
350.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
357.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們已經正風在調查這個案因為這是委員這也是剛剛我證據確實啊繼續看繼續看此外北分署111年並沒有連結政理喔過去沒有這個習慣喔但是謝宜龍112年到任之後過去兩年的三節政理金高達183萬他是不是濫發禮品做個人公關啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
397.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
根據2月份的陳情,謝怡榮分署長還要求這些禮盒的外包裝要有特別的設計並且都發包給同一個有人私交慎阻的設計師處理而且還不是從首長的特別費支出他是動用了北分署各種業務計劃的預算來支應包括至少兩項青年職能開發業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
419.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
促進特定對象就業服務部長這是在促進分署長有人的就業嗎這算不算圖利我們會立案調查圖利是要收押進去的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
420.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
438.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們已經這已經都政風有在了解而且在調查中部長我最後想請你看一下這一張這個是你們勞動部勞動部的勞發署執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引上面就這張表格職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
439.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
463.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
當中所附的表格主要是給僱主跟主管職務來檢核自己的行為是否涉及霸凌我昨天看了你的記者會之後你知道我馬上反省我自己我有沒有做過類似的事情所以請勞動部部長您自己還有今天在場的每一個主管官員今天在場這裡今天到場每一個主管官員我要求你們填一份這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
464.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
493.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
自己回去好好想想看你平日檢視自己平日的言行是否適當我不想讓這有悲劇的這個霸凌悲劇發生你們每次都要填一份填一份要副本送到我辦公室或送到委員會我今天要這個東西好我再跟你複習做最後總複習我今天要四個工作部長你回去有四個工作儘管我們過長期的私交我今天是不假情面第一個二月份的約談紀錄我要機密東西你自己你自己擦掉我要他到底有沒有約談的主旨二月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
510.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
布里沒有約談記錄因為布里根本沒有這件事你又去查清楚我萬一查出來這個真的是沒有這件事我跟班次長談的這個議員都有質詢到我們也有資料好 第一個你如果有我今天就要質詢你回去查我已經查過了真的是沒有你去查第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
514.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
540.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就調查結果重新寫一份報告因為你的報告的事實跟這個結論是不一致的我要求重寫 三天內重寫剛剛的結論剛剛的結論我可以再跟您解釋一下嗎沒有 結論不同這麼多的霸凌事件結果他說不能證明該員工是因為等等等等我所謂的不能證明是因為確實而且還說不能不是任何人證明的主要是來委員您聽我解釋一下好不好就是謝分署長跟這位離開的同仁之間還隔兩個還隔兩位主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
544.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
560.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
一位副分署長、一位秘書室主任直接督導他的是區訓長、副分署長以及秘書室主任謝分署長與他之間還隔著這兩位所以謝分署長沒有直接霸凌他所以謝分署長沒有直接霸凌他但是謝分署長有霸凌我霸凌其他的官人 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
569.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
570.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
關於副分署長在10月30號約見離開的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
586.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
606.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
並且退他的件,要求他11月4號重寫我可不可以把這份資料送給您?那你為什麼昨天,你要給我這都可以啊,但是我他的功課你要給我啊這就是為什麼關鍵的這樣子的原因今天弄出人命了耶對,我為什麼會說謝分署長無法證實他直接霸凌他是因為他不是直接督導他的人你敢不敢辦他?還是你不敢辦他?我當然敢辦他你敢辦他?當然,因為我考機會正在,我考機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
614.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
639.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我考機會會進行懲處我認為檢查檢調跟檢察院檢調不要忘了洪頌秋我在改變我報完之後洪頌秋國防部內部自己調查說沒有違法我報完之後我會移送檢察院以及檢調檢調就有違法委員我這個禮拜六就會進行懲處之後我會移送檢調跟檢察院好嗎這個案子我們不會放過的好謝謝就是我們要提案要求送檢察院跟送檢調好謝謝主席 |
| IVOD_ID |
157090 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157090 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T09:16:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T09:27:47+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |