| IVOD_ID |
156740 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156740 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-13T10:14:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-13T10:27:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678104b3fa0fc639eb756f61c8275d0c8f2d434f0d3d07bbac1267846fbddf791135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:14:28 - 10:27:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：
(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】
(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。
(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）
四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）
【11月13日及14日二天一次會】） |
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請財政部的中部長是請財政部部長委員好部長會長我們看到說今年的稅收啊預估全年會超增4千億這個數字是屬實嗎?全國的部分會超過4千億超過預算數那中央大概3千億是 |
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29.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
39.91 |
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這個我看了去年啊11月、12月兩個月就多了四千多億啊所以11月、12月忘記啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.247 |
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67.118 |
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因此你的4千億是保守估計啊我認為今年會超增5千億左右啊這個怎麼樣你覺得怎麼樣去年我拿去年來看今年啊去年10月12月多了4千億啊那你現在來講的話1到10月只有多增加600億那你現在來講說今年度的4千億我覺得不夠啊如果把4千3加上600那就是5千了 |
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69.367 |
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97.221 |
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大概我們初步估沒有到達五千了一定超過四千嗎應該會超過四千四千五全國的部分是四千了四千五差不多去年超過大概全國是三千八那中央大概是兩千九對沒有我再強調一遍去年的11月、12月兩個月增加四千三所以我把去年這個增加加你的一到十月的六百 |
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98.254 |
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114.683 |
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那就是5000啊我這樣算的啊指教一下 這個算有沒有錯我們沒有 這個去年11月跟12月的收起的數字有 這你們的數字啦你們的數字啦好 那這個來講是5000億喔是5000億之多部長 你那個還債還得很少啊 |
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126.735 |
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138.122 |
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沒有 第一個我們今年的1158億已經還啦 已經還了5%今年還會再多還 還會再多還這樣子跟委員報告 第一個今年的1158億本來就多還了8億就還 我們在12月還會再多還能不能增加到6%可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.458 |
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165.833 |
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到6%我們再來計算一下為什麼因為第一個我們今年要借的錢也沒有借今年本來要借的錢也沒借所以這樣扣掉要借的錢啊到6%再增加喔會不會到 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.519 |
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192.665 |
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對,委員您記不記得您上次在審預算的時候有要求就是說在稅客收入超過時增數、超過預算數這個部分要有5%再來還那5%是法律規定嘛法律規定是稅客收入5到6,5%嘛對不對,最少要5%那上次立法院有個決議對於超過預算數的部分再加還5%是 |
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197.566 |
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201.527 |
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那有沒有到6%嘛我一直問你你又不給我回答我們再加還這5%有沒有到6%6%不好可以到6%這個部分跟委員報告因為我們要借的沒有去借所以這個部分還要去所以你沒有去借那是可以還稅於民啊 |
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214.091 |
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230.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒有去解決因為超過預算數的部分有一些我們是因為最初還是要執行啊所以我們在花個六千塊可以嗎全民再花個六千塊這個恐怕沒有辦法確定嗎對確定嗎是好我們再看第二題雲端重數的問題重複重大起來你們解釋老半天都跟沒有解釋一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
台北國稅局當然要負很大的責任了但是外界就質疑說你們到現在為止你們開了記者會沒有人買單了網路還是一片罵聲了從不中獎那就算了結果從不中一樣兩個人中了兩支iPhone兩個人中了兩個iPad誰敢鬧這個事情啦這裡面沒有鬼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
293.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
沒有人相信啦你說啊這個因為積極參與我就給他這樣講啊感覺奇怪啊難道你們都沒有想到說我中間就是打槍只能中一個你可以再加一個槍小槍啊這我給你放進去就好啊啊這個擺明了就是你們在裡面縱容作弊喔不要說你們作弊喔你們縱容作弊喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
294.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
副委員報告在行政調查的部分我們已經說明第一個對於重複重大獎這幾位呢我們查過第一個不是我們財政部及所屬機關以及廠商的本人配偶以及三星等都不在這裡面都不是屬於這個範圍裡面第二個他們所取得發票我們進行全部就查過以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他並沒有用所謂的不正當的方式決議基本上都是超商或加油站等等買的這些發票主要是這樣那另外對於這個基率太低了幾十億分之一沒有一項限制至於有沒有不法的情形我們已經交給調查局去做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
如果有不法那當然要透過司法來做處理這個不會縱容那這個調查局的調查報告調查的結果什麼時候出來你們人都不應該追究行政責任嗎這個部分我們會深切的檢討也就是說在辦理這樣的一個情況的時候應該要做更好的一個集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
部長的高度可不可以承諾啦回去最小叫那個人體廠商蓋一個東西嘛大獎重複中獎可以大獎只有一次可以嗎大家要都有機會嘛可不可以答應答應 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
以後跟委員報告以後的活動絕對要做這樣的嚴格的一個控管一定要做嚴格的控管大獎可以小獎給你沒關係再多一個兩個沒關係但是大獎只能夠一個iPhone聽兩支這個太過分了這樣的一個情況確實要深切的檢討而且以後要防範不可以再發生這樣的情形你要不要追究相關人員責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們現在聽起來都沒有責任所以人家網路到現在為止不買單啊網路現在還在罵你們啊我是替你做囚的是 這個部分我們一定要做檢討的 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
檢討要檢討這真的不然的話到現在為止你看起來就是都沒錯阿你沒有錯廠商沒有錯喔都沒有錯喔大家好阿老百姓不好阿不是委員這個如果有相關涉及刑法的部分一定要根據這個刑法來處理好不好我們來看好了請我們范工股的董事長們都上來好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
429.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
潘公古等從台銀開始時間暫停一下好不好我請教一下啦這個像龍統應該是哪一位啊台銀是吧你向前走一步還是趙鳳你是龍統還是趙鳳 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
484.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
兩個一起啦 台銀跟兆豐啦台銀薪水比較少 兆豐薪水比較多啦兆豐多太多啦這個 要東東市長 這個回去喔請問你們啦 八家今年大賺錢對不對 舉手大賺錢 舉手統統大賺錢啦統統大賺錢 不要懷疑有沒有加薪的計畫 有的舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
明年度4%以上的居所4%以上3%我們明年度軍公教人員挑釁你這3%大攤子這3% |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
董董講一下 董董 你是經營專家 我就對你評價也不差啦 但是你講一下 為什麼3%報告委員 第一個當然我們是比照公務人員嘛 公務人員加3%我們就加3% 你們加公務人員 你的薪水就不比照台銀 你的薪水是台銀的3倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
530.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
549.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
報告委員有沒有有沒有有沒有你說你的薪水是右邊的3倍勒應該應該有啦報告委員其實其實我們不是只有加這個3%而已啦我們每一年的晉級晉級那部分的話大概自然的加薪大概也差不多有有有請教台營的這個林總請教台營的林總來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
賴委員好你原來在張營嘛對不對對還有呢土銀土銀不要說土銀跟你一樣還有輸出入銀行從張營到台營你薪水是三分之一啊你不覺得很委屈嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
欸...我想喔...一點點!最主要是我們...一點點委屈!欸...不不...這先...沒有委屈!我先撇開個人不講喔我是覺得我們整個金控集團裡面還有整個金控集團下面的這些子公司的員工的一些待遇跟福利其實跟所有的公股去比喔還有跟所有的民營去比真的是沒有辦法相比沒辦法相比啦!草稿子!來來來來來!來!我給你們看啦!這裡面! |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
617.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
2013年WF的金融競爭力台灣排名82名名勝輸給中國大陸這個當然很久以前了可是你注意看我們的EPS民間都在前面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
640.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
公鼓樂來請教部長有沒有意思要推動公共病讓他Mass變大有沒有機會公共病可能牽涉到層面比較大當然組織的一個文化以及它經營的策略以及相關經營的強項公共病不可能公民病也不可能是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那最後一個啦我時間有限齁那就好好的提供員工的福利待遇吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
649.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
673.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一個很重要的 你們要給他們加福利 喔 人事總署都在那邊休喔 這個什麼單一興奉 對吧人事總署部長 我今天就公開執行 做球給你 你就跟那個蘇蘭市長講我們這一部分是國營事業不能管啊 不能管那麼多啊比如說 比如說 比如說 你們請問那個台土營 我call in |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
675.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
員工生一個小孩多少錢你知道嗎?今天多少你知道嗎?多少?生家不太一樣來來來來台銀講一下多少錢?台銀生一胎是五千塊五千塊啊!要一件!對不對來 趙鋒趙鋒趙鋒講一下你們生一胎多少錢?我們應該大概十幾萬吧十二萬幾萬幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
694.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
699.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
幾萬、幾萬、講一下12萬12萬12萬對都太少啦第一台12萬、第二台50萬、第一台100萬現在掃紙化在鏡中對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
712.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
723.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個東西阿你們一提出來這個阿人事人事總署都要咻咻叫所以這不管欸我就是問你一句部長你能不能去跟人事總署那邊講喔時間到了齁好這個部分沒有你跟他講說有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
727.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
750.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們換工股特別是三個銀行臺土銀他們的員工的福利他不要管那麼多讓你他們自己從英語裡面來出好 這個委員這個質詢的內容我們一定會呈覽給蘇仁市長管太多啊 這個收生太窮了沒有這樣子 第三章沒有100萬沒有人要寫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
752.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
764.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
提高我們國營事業員工的福利謝謝委員謝謝賴士葆委員請部長及各家銀行回座現在有請賴會員召委謝謝主席 |
| gazette.lineno |
689 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（10時14分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請財政部莊部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請財政部部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長你早。我們看到今年的稅收預估全年會超徵四千億，這個數字屬實嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
莊部長翠雲：全國的部分會超過四千億，超過預算數，中央大概三千億。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：去年11月、12月兩個月就多了四千多億，所以11月、12月是旺季！因此，四千億是保守估計，我認為今年會超徵五千億左右，這個你覺得怎麼樣？我拿去年來看今年，去年11月、12月多了四千億，今年1月到10月只增加六百億，你現在說今年度是四千億，我覺得不夠，但如果四千三加上六百，那就是五千了。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們初估沒有到達五千。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：一定超過四千？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
莊部長翠雲：應該會超過四千。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：四千五？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
莊部長翠雲：全國的部分是四千。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：四千五差不多？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
莊部長翠雲：去年全國大概是三千八，中央大概是兩千九。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。我再強調一遍，去年光11月、12月兩個月就增加四千三，所以我把去年增加的，加上今年1月到10月的六百，那就是五千！我是這樣算的，指教一下，看看這個算法有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
莊部長翠雲：去年11月、12月收取的數字，有…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：這是你們的數字。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：不然是哪裡的數字？是你們的數字，大概四、五千億之多，部長，你還債還得很少啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
莊部長翠雲：沒有，第一個，我們今年的1,158億已經還了，已經還了。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：規定就5%，你就比5%多一點點。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
莊部長翠雲：今年還會再多，還會再多還。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：今年能增加到6%嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：能夠增加到6%嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
莊部長翠雲：第一個，今年的1,158億中，本來就多還了8億…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：不就5%而已？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
莊部長翠雲：然後12月還會再多還。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：能不能增加到6%，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
莊部長翠雲：到6%？我們再來計算一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：到6%，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
莊部長翠雲：為什麼？第一個，我們今年要借的錢也沒有借…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以還…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
莊部長翠雲：今年本來要借的錢沒借，所以要扣掉要借的錢啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：我就問你可不可以到6%！你努力看看。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
莊部長翠雲：再增加到6%？委員記不記得您上次審預算時有要求，稅課收入的實徵數超過預算數部分要再還5%，這個部分我們一定會…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：那5%是法律規定，越多越好。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
莊部長翠雲：不，法律規定是稅課收入5%到6%，對不對？最少要5%，且上次立法院有決議，對於超過預算數的部分再加還5%。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：有沒有到6%？我一直問，你都不回答！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們再加還這5%……有沒有到6%…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：6%？可以到6%？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這部分跟委員報告，因為我們要借的沒有去借，所以這個部分還要去…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：既然沒有借，那可以還稅於民啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
莊部長翠雲：沒有去借…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：可以還稅於民。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
莊部長翠雲：因為超過預算數的部分有些…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：再發個6,000塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
莊部長翠雲：因為歲出還是要執行，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：再發個6,000塊，可以嗎？全民再發個6,000塊？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這個恐怕沒有辦法！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：確定嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：確定嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們再看第二題，雲端種樹的問題。對於重複中大獎一事，你們解釋了老半天跟沒有解釋一樣。這件事臺北國稅局當然要負很大責任，外界就質疑到現在為止，雖然你們開過記者會，但沒有人買單，網路還是一片罵聲。重複中獎就算了，結果重複的都一樣，兩個人中了兩支iPhone，兩個人中了兩個iPad，世間哪有這種事情？說這裡面沒有鬼，沒人相信！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：你說因為積極參與，所以就給他獎。奇怪，難道你們都沒有想到大獎只能中一個，可以再加一個小獎，這樣放上去就好了？這擺明了就是你們在裡面縱容作弊，不要說你們作弊，是你們縱容作弊！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，行政調查部分我們已經說明過，第一，對於重複中大獎的這幾位，我們查過，不是我們財政部及所屬機關以及廠商本人、配偶以及三親等，都不在這裡面，都不是屬於這範圍；第二，他們所取得的發票我們全部查過，並沒有用所謂的不正當方式取得，基本上都是超商或加油站等等買東西取得發票，主要是這樣。另外，對於…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：機率太低了，幾十億分之一，沒有人相信！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
莊部長翠雲：至於有沒有不法的情形，我們已經交給調查局去做調查，如果有不法，當然要透過司法來做處理，這個不會縱容、不會縱容。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：調查結果什麼時候可以出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
莊部長翠雲：調查局調查的結果什麼時候出來，這個部分我們會再…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們難道不應該追究行政責任嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們會深切的檢討，也就是說，在辦理這樣一個情況的時候，應該要做更好的稽核。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長，我請問你啦，你以部長之尊、部長的高度可不可以承諾，回去至少叫那個軟體廠商改一個東西嘛，大獎重複中獎可以，但大獎只有一次，可以嗎？大家都有機會嘛，可不可以答應？我做球給你，大獎只有一個！ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，以後的活動，絕對要做這樣子嚴格的控管，一定要做嚴格的控管。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：大獎可以小獎給你沒關係，再多一個、兩個沒關係，但是大獎只能夠一個，現在是iPhone抽到兩支，這個太過分了啦，老實說。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這樣的情況確實要深切的檢討，而且以後也要防範不可以再發生這樣的情形，是。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要不要追究相關人員的責任？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
莊部長翠雲：相關人員責任這個部分，我們現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：你現在聽起來是都沒有責任，所以人家網路到現在為止不買單嘛，網路現在還在罵你們，我是替你做球耶。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是，這個部分，我們一定要做檢討的。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：檢討要檢討真的啊，不然的話，到現在為止，你看起來就是都沒有錯啊，你沒有錯，廠商沒有錯，統統沒有錯！你好，我好，大家好，但老百姓不好啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
莊部長翠雲：不是，委員，這個如果有相關涉及刑法的部分，一定要根據刑法來處理，調查局已經去調查了。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，我們再來看吧。請我們泛公股的董事長們都上來好嗎？泛公股的，從臺銀開始，時間暫停一下，好不好？我請教一下，現在龍頭應該是哪一位啊？臺銀是嗎？請你向前走一步，還是兆豐？你是龍頭，還是兆豐？那就兩個一起吧，臺銀跟兆豐，臺銀薪水比較少，兆豐薪水比較多，兆豐多太多了，董董事長，你委屈了，請問你們八家今年大賺錢，對不對？舉手！大賺錢，舉手！統統大賺錢！統統大賺錢，不要懷疑，有沒有加薪的計畫？有的舉手！明年度4%以上的舉手！4%以上，3%？我們明年度軍公教人員要調薪，但你才調3%？大賺錢才3%，會不會太苛了？董董事長講一下，你是經營專家，外界對你的評價也不差，但是請你說一下為什麼，為什麼只有加薪3%？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：報告委員，第一個，當然我們是比照公務人員嘛，公務人員加3%，我們就加3%，但是另外…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們比照公務人員，那你的薪水怎麼不比照臺銀？你的薪水是臺銀的3倍耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：報告委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：有沒有、有沒有、有沒有？你說，你的薪水是右邊的3倍耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：應該、應該有啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：差那麼多，你還說比照公務人員，笑死人了！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：報告委員，其實我們不是只有加這個3%而已，我們每一年的晉級，晉級那部分的話，自然的加薪大概也差不多也有百分之一點多到百分之二，這大概有5%啦，其實每一年的人事成本都在增加。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：請教臺銀的凌董。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：你原來在彰銀嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：還有呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：土銀。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：土銀？土銀就不用說了，土銀跟你們一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：還有輸出入銀行。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：從彰銀到臺銀，你薪水剩三分之一啊，你不覺得很委屈嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：我想喔…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：一點點？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：我想最主要是我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：一點點委屈？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：不、不、不，這要先…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有委屈？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：先撇開個人不講啦，我是覺得我們整個金控集團裡面，還有整個金控集團下面的這些子公司，員工的一些待遇跟福利，其實跟所有的公股去比，還有跟所有的民營去比，真的是沒有辦法相比。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒辦法相比啦，差有夠多的！我給你們看啦，這裡面2013年WEF的金融競爭力，臺灣排名82名，名次還輸給中國大陸，這當然是很久以前的啦。可是你注意看喔，我們的EPS，民間都在前面耶，我們的公股呢？請教部長，有沒有意思要推動公公併，讓它max變大，有沒有機會？有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
莊部長翠雲：公公併可能牽涉到的層面比較大，包含組織的文化，以及它經營的策略，以及相關經營的強項，這個都要經過…… |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
賴委員士葆：公公併不可能，公民併也不可能，是不是？這樣不行。那最後一個問題，我時間有限，好好的提供員工的福利、待遇吧，一個很重要的，當你們要給他們加福利時，人事總處就在那裡叫，這個什麼單一薪俸，對吧，人事總處。部長，我今天就公開質詢、做球給你，你去跟蘇人事長講，我們這一部分是國營事業，不能管啦，不能管那麼多啊，比如你們的臺土銀有夠可憐的，員工生一個小孩，多少錢你知道嗎？津貼多少你知道嗎？多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
莊部長翠雲：3家不太一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
賴委員士葆：來、來、來，臺銀講一下，多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
凌董事長忠嫄：臺銀生一胎是5,000塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
賴委員士葆：才5,000塊，有什麼用，對不對？兆豐講一下，你們生一胎多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：我們應該大概十幾萬吧，12萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
賴委員士葆：幾萬？幾萬，講一下嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：12萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
賴委員士葆：12萬？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
董董事長瑞斌：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
賴委員士葆：太少了啦，第一胎12萬，第二胎50萬，第一胎應該要100萬！現在少子化這麼嚴重，對不對？這個東西，你們一提出來這個，人事總處就在那邊叫，說這不行，我就是問你一句，部長，你能不能去跟人事總處那邊講？我時間到了。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好，這個部分，我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
賴委員士葆：你去跟他講，說有關於我們泛公股，特別是3個銀行──臺土銀，他們的員工福利，請他不要管那麼多，讓他們自己從盈餘裡面來出，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好，委員這個質詢的內容，我們一定會傳達給蘇人事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
賴委員士葆：你一定要跟他講哦，我會問他，管太多了啦！這個手伸太長了，沒有這樣子的，第三胎沒有100萬，沒有人要生啦，真的是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是，提高我們國營事業員工的福利，謝謝委員，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
主席（伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員代）：好，謝謝賴士葆委員，請部長及各家銀行回座。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][1] |
現在有請賴惠員召委。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
172 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-20-8 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
13 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-13 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310002 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310002_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17
人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳
冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草
案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草
案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」
案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢
答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預
算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有
關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310002_00002 |