| IVOD_ID |
156677 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156677 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-11T11:11:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-11T11:22:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/774069080e86b69fa39d921b0e3d6854bd36f72287d07ce1a02e3bc7edb1fcc3f710d25578a6b90f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:11:58 - 11:22:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會、原住民族文化發展中心部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金—原住民族綜合發展基金。四、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會114年度預算書案。五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預算。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】） |
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主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、 |
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26.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.451 |
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人民會稅出計畫、分支計畫、概況表大概長這個樣子當然我們要負責任的審查預算那我就要看嘛看你這個業務在下面你要做什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.506 |
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51.61 |
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三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金 |
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69.7 |
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89.451 |
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我們要負責任的審查預算我就要細細的拜讀但問題是什麼來我再載足我看一下當我看這個計畫裡面細項的內容譬如說偷動原住民族政策法規裡面要收集整理原住民相關政策施政計畫97萬 |
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92.475 |
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115.306 |
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本會施政方針施政計畫及業務工作匯報5萬偷動原住民族政策及法規4萬辦理原住民族人口基礎資料庫規劃及建制研究100萬每一個計畫我們都要好好的去看你要做什麼事需要多少錢我要請教主委的第一個問題是 |
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117.776 |
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136.463 |
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你們在使用經費的時候會按照這一個說明欄裡面你們所講的細項去執行嗎?會還是不會?來請教主委我們會按照這個細項來執行會按照這個細項來執行但我看沒有啊我為什麼說沒有啊來來來之前我一直在追啊這個主委花了145萬的公帑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.198 |
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168.115 |
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三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金 |
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176.158 |
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204 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本會施政方針五萬五萬全部拿去出專刊推動原住民族政策法規四萬四萬全部拿去做專刊這叫做有按照計畫內容執行喔這叫做有按照計畫內容執行喔錢太多是不是錢可以這樣花喔我看完你們錢怎麼花了以後啊我大驚失色啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
205.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
231.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
立委審預算不要太認真因為原民會裏面預算書都清猜瞎下不同的內容全部放在一起幫主委出一本個人專刊來再往下看辦理原住民族人口基礎資料庫規劃期建制研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
258.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
連辦原住民的人口基礎資料庫規劃及建制研究100萬都可以拿38萬4千元去出日本專刊前面三個大象喔百分之百拿去給他出專刊還不夠還要從原住民族人口基礎資料庫規劃及建制研究用雲芝當作藉口雲芝38萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
262.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
284.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主委不對啊你剛說都會按照計畫內容去執行我看沒有啊完全沒有啊全部拿來出專刊啊不夠連原住民族的人口基礎資料庫規劃及建制研究都可以挖出來去幫主委出個人成果專刊主委這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
286.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
293.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們這個部分我們會做檢討這個是檢討兩個字就可以解決的嗎以後絕對不會再這樣子做了預算可以這樣花嗎預算可以這樣花嗎這樣子花有沒有違反預算法這個部分跟委員報告我想我們一定會來檢討這樣的一個過程我們以後不會再發生這樣的事情了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
315.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
340.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我老實講啦我看了以後我沒有辦法相信你的承諾我們按照這個項目給你的這個錢對你接下來要做什麼樣的運用完全沒有控管檢核的機制嘛所以我才問你嘛預算這樣花有沒有違反預算法這樣核銷可以核銷得過有沒有違反預算法 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
346.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
375.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主委你認為有沒有違反預算法我們會受那個審計單位的這個檢討如果有缺失我們要改進沒有關係啦我上面秀給你看啊主計重註怎麼講的預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容我對於原民會員自己檢討這件事情我老實跟您報告期待可能性大概是零啦我會請審計部做專案審計接下來下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
377.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
395.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們原民會啊派人出去原住民政策代表團啊代表台灣出去啊這應該是台灣的光榮嘛代表我們出去澳洲原住民政策代表團這很重要啊派出去的人是誰選的來請教諸位誰選的啊派出去的人是誰選的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
405.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
414.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
431.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
451.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們沒有推薦捏總共去了四個人嘛啊你說主辦單位指定兩個那另外兩個從哪裡來的他們邀請的喔是他們邀請的沒有關係你會後用書面回覆我因為我對於啊你在備詢台上面所講的話上一次講的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
452.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
463.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
481.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
490.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
514.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
522.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
原民會錢很多是不是?這個我們會做這個是哪一位?可以這樣幹喔?可以這樣幹喔?原民會錢很多是不是?錢多到花不完啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
544.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
554.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
570.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
597.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
都沒有?阿只有他有?錢可以這樣花喔?沒關係阿主委這件事情回去查清楚一個禮拜書面回覆書面回覆誰點頭的?誰點頭的?錢可以這樣花喔?原民會錢太多了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
598.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
607.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金 |
| gazette.lineno |
1224 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（11時11分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請原民會主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請曾主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：主委好。接下來要審原民會的預算，但我在看原民會預算書的時候，我陷入一個極度的困惑跟長考，我為什麼說陷入一個極度的困惑跟長考？我先帶主委看一下，原民會歲出計畫提要及分支計畫概況表大概長這個樣子，當然我們要負責任的審查預算，那我就要看嘛！看你這個業務費下面要做什麼事情，每一個大的計畫下面的分支計畫又要做什麼事情，所以有右手邊的說明欄，那個說明欄是譬如說綜合規劃發展，要規劃原住民族政策事務經費所編的經費要規劃哪些事情在說明欄裡面去說明，我們要負責任的審查預算，我就要細細的拜讀，但問題是什麼？來，我再帶主委看一下，當我看這個計畫裡面細項的內容，譬如說，推動原住民族政策法規裡面要蒐集整理原住民相關政策施政計畫97萬，本會施政方針、施政計畫及業務工作會報5萬，推動原住民族政策及法規4萬，辦理原住民族人口基礎資料庫規劃及建置研究100萬，每一個計畫我們都要好好地去看你要做什麼事、需要多少錢，我要請教主委的第一個問題是，你們在使用經費的時候會按照說明欄裡面所講的細項去執行嗎？會還是不會？來，請教主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我們會按照這個細項來執行。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：會按照這個細項來執行，但我看沒有啊！我為什麼說沒有？來，來、來，之前我一直在追這個主委花了145萬的公帑出了個人成果專刊，我是不好意思把它形容成是什麼，把它形容成是他的個人寫真集，你要出個人寫真集自己出錢，結果什麼？145萬從哪裡來？來，我帶主委看一下，第一個，蒐集整理原住民相關政策施政計畫原列預算97萬6,000，結果97萬6,000全部拿去出專刊；本會施政方針5萬，5萬全部拿去出專刊；推動原住民族政策法規4萬，4萬全部拿去做專刊，這叫作有按照計畫內容執行？這叫作有按照計畫內容執行？錢太多是不是？錢可以這樣花？我看完你們錢怎麼花了以後，我大驚失色，立委審預算不要太認真，因為原民會裡面預算書都是隨便寫的，不同的內容全部放在一起幫主委出一本個人專刊。來，再往下看辦理原住民族人口基礎資料庫規劃及建置研究，連辦原住民的人口基礎資料庫規劃及建置研究100萬都可以拿38萬4,000元去出這本專刊，前面三個大項百分之百拿去給他出專刊還不夠，還要從原住民族人口基礎資料庫規劃及建置研究用勻支當作藉口，勻支38萬4,000元，主委，不對啊！你剛剛說都會按照計畫內容去執行，我看沒有啊！完全沒有啊！全部拿來出專刊不夠，連原住民族的人口基礎資料庫規劃及建置研究都可以挖出來去幫主委出個人成果專刊，主委這樣對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：委員，這個部分我們會做檢討，我們以後…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個是檢討兩個字就可以解決的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我們以後絕對不會再這樣子做了。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：預算可以這樣花嗎？預算可以這樣花嗎？這樣子花有沒有違反預算法？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：這個部分跟委員報告，我們一定會來檢討這樣的過程，我們以後不會再發生這樣的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：我老實講，我看了以後，我沒有辦法相信你的承諾，我們按照這個項目給你這個錢，對你接下來要做什麼樣的運用完全沒有控管檢核的機制，所以我才問你嘛！預算這樣花有沒有違反預算法？這樣核銷可以核銷得過？有沒有違反預算法？主委，你認為有沒有違反預算法？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我們會受審計單位的檢討，如果有缺失，我們要改進。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦！我上面show給你看，主計總處怎麼講的？預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容，我對於原民會會自己檢討這件事情，我老實跟您報告，期待的可能性大概是0，我會請審計部做專案審計。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][1] |
接下來，下一個問題，原民會派人出去，原住民政策代表團代表臺灣出去，這應該是臺灣的光榮，代表我們去澳洲，原住民政策代表團這很重要，派出去的人是誰選的？來，請教主委，派出去的人是誰選的？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：有的時候是那邊的主辦單位有指定人，但是有的時候是我們這邊派人…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，以今年的這個計畫來講是誰選的？不要含糊啦！講清楚啦！是誰選的？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：主辦單位他們直接來指定是我們莎韻科長跟李康寧專委。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：那原民會推薦的有幾個？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我們沒有推薦。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：總共去了4個人嘛！你說主辦單位指定兩個，那另外兩個從哪裡來的？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：他們邀請的哦！是他們邀請的。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有關係，你會後用書面回復我。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：因為我對於你在備詢臺上面所講的話，上一次講的時候就跟內容有出入了啦！所以你們會後趕快發一個新聞稿說那個族群委員都是你挑的啦！不是卓榮泰挑的啦！跟你備詢講的內容完全不一樣，但我看了就覺得很誇張耶！原民會很多錢嗎？公務員要提升英文程度，我一點意見都沒有，公務員要提升英文程度，我一點意見都沒有，但要公平嘛！你幫一個特定的人舉辦一對一英文會話，幫他請老師耶！一次2,500塊，幫他搞了8次，花了4萬塊，原民會是錢太多是不是？全中華民國每一個公務員都有這種待遇嗎？一對一的英文會話課，一堂課2,500，搞了8堂，花4萬塊，原民會錢很多是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：這個我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：可以這樣幹喔？可以這樣幹喔？原民會錢很多是不是？錢多到花不完，全中華民國的公務員大家看了都很羨慕，一對一耶！英文課一堂2,500，錢就這樣砸下去，來，我請教一下現場原民會的長官，有上過這種一對一英文會話課的請舉手，有上過這種一對一英文會話課的請舉手，都沒有？只有他有？錢可以這樣花喔？沒關係，主委，這件事情回去查清楚，一個禮拜書面回復，誰點頭的，錢可以這樣花喔？原民會錢太多了啦！這個會期我審預算，我一定遵照卓榮泰院長的指示，不可以浪費公帑，好好處理你們原民會的預算。謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
主席（吳委員琪銘代）：謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][1] |
下一位請張智倫委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
282 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-15-8 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
165 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-11 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139601 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139601_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中
央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會、原住民族文化發展中心部分；三、審查 114年度中央政府
總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金─原住民族綜合發展基金；
四、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發
展基金會114年度預算書案；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預
算 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139601_00003 |