| IVOD_ID |
156517 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156517 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-05T17:07:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-05T17:23:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d4129a5c681ab0d7350e3fd33acf0e4cf8bf094adffc7b89f095a7e32037ed90a385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:07:33 - 17:23:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
14.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
14.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
第一次能源轉型我們到底真正的促成了臺灣這個再生能源的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那速度上當然沒有像本來預設的那麼快但是我們覺得在2026年的時候我們可以補足現在的目標換句話說你這麼回答就是說小英政府的這個能源政策他是有待改進的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
87.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
凡事起頭難。所以先前有一段時間進度比較慢的,我們有可有把握在2026年。先前有一段時間進度比較慢,本席告訴你,民眾的感受,本席的感受是失敗的。是失敗的,為什麼?執政八年,火力八成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
115.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就這八個字我告訴你是失敗的所以我們看到雖然是失敗但是前任的部長王美花部長還有作為他說增氣就減煤所以他同時也在這個2021年的時候呢他也特別來提出了他特別提出什麼呢也就是說要達到雙贏的政策所以我告訴院長我們看看現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
117.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中火的燃氣機組的二期環評通過了?是是通過了?是臺中人的肺怎麼辦呢?臺中人的健康怎麼辦呢?我用數據告訴你數據告訴你六部的燃氣機組一部1300MW再加上民間電廠中家600所以換句話說如果以這樣加總起來是8400MW |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
176.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
十部的燃煤基礎一部550MW裝置容量十部5500MW所以換句話說你如果六部的燃煤基礎燃氣全開那麼是8400要加上這個宗家的民營電廠的600所以換句話說是目前我們的燃煤基礎的總裝置量的1.5倍1.5倍所以我要請教本市要請教卓議員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
193.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
王美花部長的GAS有所作為您為什麼不能做呢?您為什麼不能做呢?我們現在有在做啊您為什麼不能做?我們在2027年我們會剩下兩部燃氣加六部燃煤的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
196.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
二、三、五年度不能進一組。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你剛才說的第一次轉型困難我告訴你是失敗的因為再一次強調直升8年火力8成所以我再一次告訴你如果依照你目前的作為王美花部長可以做現在的卓議院長不做在這樣情況之下你的二次能源轉型我告訴你你會轉出一個最大的火力發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
最大的火力發電廠所以因此我要告訴你我要告訴你爭氣、戰慮你卻不減煤王美鳳部長當時提出當時提出請卓院長你注意聽他當時提出規劃第一步的燃氣機組運轉成功之後隔年我們就可以做減煤拆掉一支煙囪把燃煤機組拆除 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這是王美花部長當時,所以我在上個禮拜在經濟委員會也特別問了郭部長以及曾董事長,他說會,他一定會落實這個承諾,對不對?你本席,你聽本席說 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
王美花部長說雙贏政策也就是爭氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
302.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
六部是備用一年最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好!你說這一個備用我告訴你我們繼續來討論臺電公司告訴我們說因應國安的考慮所以必須要保留六部的藍莓基礎對不對?是這麼說嗎?是嗎?是嗎?那我們國安部長的時代就沒有國安問題囉! |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
報告委員,請你回答,我要跟卓院長來討論原則的問題。所以我要請教你們現在的能源政策就是如此,就是增期不減煤。所以我請問我們的卓院長,請問你們備用啟用的標準的時機是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
依照電力設施以及空氣汙染 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
417.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
部的一個排放標準我們的第二條第11款裡頭規定緊急備用的電力設施也就是單一基礎你一年可以有720小時換句話說你的六部燃煤基礎的備用你每一年都能夠有一個月足足一個月的一個容量去運作所以在這樣的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你每一部藍莓機組每一年都可以開足足一個月這是法定規定目前法定規定對不對上限所以有需要的時候才會法定規定所以本席要請教你每一年一部機車子有備胎一樣有需要的時候才會換備胎沒有請他回答請不要佔據本席的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
臺中人的健康臺中人的肺請院長你要注意啊你要關心啊我們實質理性的來討論每一臺藍莓基礎每一年可以當轉運轉一個月一個月環境部部長你坐在這裡你站在這裡你是最需要照顧人民的健康啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
報告委員,他的空污是顯著的減量,然後他的燃煤也顯著的減少,40跟30都很明確的。好,我會再繼續跟你討論。編長,我講白了一句話,你就是怕缺電,所以你要犧牲我們台中人的健康。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
486.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
會在你的備用量6%以下才可以運轉嗎?會在你的AQI指標80%以下才運轉嗎?會不會? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
503.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
504.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
532.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你現在的能源政策從王美娥部長到現在展率時程都慢了所以我們真的很緊張拜託院會尊重發言委員的質詢請大家輕聲細語好嗎拜託拜託拜託請大家輕聲細語尊重質詢委員的質詢權謝謝 要不然請繼續時間繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以院長我再請教卓院長我們非常的理性來討論臺中人關鍵的議題也就是說請問你剛才所開的條件不清不楚你說需要的時候你就會可以啟動我也告訴你依法每一部的藍莓機組每一年可以一個月720小時所以請教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
567.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
578.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果你們要運轉的時候你要啟用的時候請教院長你會不會徵詢臺中市政府的意見請教院長報告委員我可以請教卓院長關鍵性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
585.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
596.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你會徵詢嗎?你會不會徵詢?我跟委員報告一個最關鍵的問題我不會不比你關心台中好!謝謝你的關心請問你會不會徵詢?請問你會不會徵詢?我的習慣是台中市委員知道嗎?請問你既然是台中市你更應該要關心請問你會不會徵詢? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
605.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
請問你會不會徵詢?依照辦法必須徵詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
613.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
依照辦法必須徵詢你也是台中人所以我繼續要告訴你政府沒有講出真相政府沒有講出真相剛剛我們說的如果燃氣全面開的時候我告訴你我們的還說書我們的環境部長你在這裡請你講真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
634.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。：楊瓊瓔 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
655.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
673.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以臺中人的行政院長請你正視這個問題因為改善空汙是政府的責任所以我希望我們的綠電發展趕不上社會所需求的時候你應該要冷靜的去思考因為PM2.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
675.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
699.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
PM2.5 懸浮歷史WHO裡頭認定一級的致癌物環境部部長請你耳朵聽明顯的會減量了我沒有請你講話所以請你看看先生院長你看到我們台中市台中市的死亡率什麼最高癌症臺灣的三冠王肺癌 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
701.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
711.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
三冠王不管是人數不管是發聲率通通都是最高所以因此你剛才所說的你是台中人你當 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
712.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
734.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
當你當上了行政院院長應該要重視我們臺中中國的運動中國的運動因為我告訴你方法你告訴我方法我告訴你數據台灣現在的肺癌肺腺癌是世界各國國外的3到5倍是3到5倍喔所以因此院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
735.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
753.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我希望王美花院長部長可以做的在你左院長你又是台中人你應該更要做就是這個一模一樣啊所以院長你們現在的能源政策能源政策就是什麼總統當吸票機我們人民當什麼吸塵器 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
754.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
756.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所提出來的重大建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
777.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
789.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
或是所提出來的各種政策,不能夠違背健康原則。在這種健康原則之下,沒有第二句話,臺中的中火應該要陸續除疫的,更積極地用再生能源取而代之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
798.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
824.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
825.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
825.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那不是說總統講的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
847.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
869.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
是行政院長欸!總統講的!總統講叫你趕快除役!今天環評通過的並非中國美化部長要雙贏政策!剛剛委員放的影片裡面總統說的跟這個結果就一模一樣啊!六氣發電,六煤儆備,就是這樣子啊!左院長,你說你剛才特別告訴我你是台中人 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
870.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
870.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
環境部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
887.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
914.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
的態度讓我們覺得你沒有為我們的環境在努力請你看看我們台中人我們肺腺癌的人數肺腺癌的發生率尤其WHO說了pH2.5就是最大的致癌的這個重要因子所以請你將心比心你在這邊不是跟我辯而是要去維護你的政策是正確的所以卓議員長本期再次強調剛剛你說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
916.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
943.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就是未來啟動的時候,備用啟動,你會徵詢台中市政府,是不是?剛剛你說了,你要徵詢台中市政府的同意嘛,是不是?你要徵詢台中市政府的同意,卓院長,是不是?你要徵詢台中市政府的同意才得商轉備容量的一個備用,對不對?要徵詢台中市政府的同意,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
944.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
958.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
謝謝楊瓊瓔 |
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1622 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：（17時7分）謝謝敬愛的院長、行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊、新聞界的朋友、各位同仁，楊瓊瓔發言。首先邀請卓院長。 |
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主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。院長，首先請問我們的能源政策，小英總統執政8年的能源政策，你認為是成功的，還是失敗的？ |
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卓院長榮泰：第一次能源轉型，我們到底真正地促成了臺灣再生能源的發展，速度上當然沒有像本來預設的那麼快，但是我們覺得在2026年的時候可以補足現在的目標。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：所以換句話說，你這麼回答就是說，小英政府的能源政策是有待改進的空間？ |
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卓院長榮泰：不是，凡事起頭難，所以先前有一段時間進度比較慢的，我們有把握在2026年…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：先前有一段時間進度比較慢，本席告訴你，民眾的感受、本席的感受是失敗的，是失敗的，為什麼？執政8年、火力八成，就這8個字，我告訴你是失敗的。我們看到雖然是失敗，但是前任的部長王美花部長還有作為，他說增氣就減煤，所以他同時也在2021年的時候特別提出了，他特別提出什麼呢？也就是說，要達到雙贏的政策。所以我告訴院長，我們看看現在，中火燃氣機組的二期環評通過了。 |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：是通過了。 |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：臺中人的肺怎麼辦呢？臺中人的健康怎麼辦呢？我用數據告訴你，用數據告訴你。6部的燃氣機組，1部1,300MW，再加上民間電廠中佳600MW，所以換句話說，這樣加總起來是8,400MW，10部燃煤機組1部550MW裝置容量，10部就是5,500MW，如果6部燃氣機組全開是8,400MW，再加上中佳民營電廠的600MW，是目前我們的燃煤機組總裝置量的1.5倍，本席要請教卓院長，王美花部長的guts、有所作為，你為什麼不能做呢？你為什麼不能做呢？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們現在有在做。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：你為什麼不能做？ |
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卓院長榮泰：有啊！我們在2027年會剩下2部燃氣加6部燃煤機組。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：錯！你的答案是錯的，我告訴你，我已經告訴你明明會增加這麼多的電，但是你還不願意做，所以我給你一個註解…… |
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卓院長榮泰：到2035年6部燃氣機組…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：你剛才說第一次轉型困難，我告訴你這是失敗的…… |
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卓院長榮泰：沒有失敗。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：我再一次強調「執政八年、火力八成」。 |
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卓院長榮泰：我們就是50、30、20的目標，沒有失敗。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：我再一次告訴你，如果依照你目前的作為，王美花部長可以做，現在的卓院長不做，在這樣情況之下，你的二次能源轉型，我告訴你，你會轉出一個最大的火力發電廠。因此，我要告訴你，增氣、展綠，卻不減煤，這是王美花部長當時提出的，請卓院長注意聽，他當時提出規劃第一部燃氣機組運轉成功之後，隔年我們就可以做減煤拆掉1隻煙囪，把燃煤機組拆除，這是王美花部長當時提出的。我上個禮拜在經濟委員會也特別問了郭部長以及曾董事長，他說會，他一定會落實這個承諾。 |
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卓院長榮泰：委員，26年就會拆燃煤機組。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：你聽本席說，現在的增氣、減煤、展綠，但是你並沒有這樣做，你要保留6部的燃煤機組，第二期…… |
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卓院長榮泰：那是備用。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：好！你現在講到備用，我會繼續告訴你，我請問你一句話，王美花部長說「增氣、減煤」雙贏政策，穩定國內的供應…… |
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卓院長榮泰：沒錯，時程就是這樣子…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：以及臺中減空污政策，這是達到雙贏，你認同王美花部長所說的嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：時程就是這樣子。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：如果時程是這麼說，為什麼二期的部分你要保留6部燃煤機組呢？我已經明明白白地告訴你，你的裝置量能已經增加1.5倍…… |
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卓院長榮泰：6部是備用，一年最高…… |
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郭部長智輝：它不會同時進行工作。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：你說這個是備用，我告訴你，我們繼續來討論，台電公司告訴我們，因應國安的考慮，所以必須要保留6部燃煤機組，對不對？是這麼說嗎？是嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：那王美花部長的時代就沒有國安問題了嗎？ |
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郭部長智輝：報告委員，我跟你解釋可以嗎？ |
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楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有請你回答，我要跟卓院長討論原則的問題。 |
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卓院長榮泰：我們認為…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：所以我要請教你們現在的能源政策就是如此，就是增氣不減煤？ |
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卓院長榮泰：能源政策就在這裡。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：請問我們的卓院長，請問你們備用啟用的標準與時機是什麼？ |
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卓院長榮泰：第一個，因為國安的問題、天災的問題或是定期運轉保養的問題，但是每一年720小時的上限是不會突破的。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：依照電力設施空氣污染物排放標準第二條第十一款規定，緊急備用的電力設施也就是單一機組一年可以有720小時。 |
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卓院長榮泰：沒錯。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，你的6部燃煤機組的備用，每一年都能夠有足足一個月的容量去運轉…… |
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卓院長榮泰：這是有需要的時候的上限，不是一定會…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：在這樣的情況之下，每一部燃煤機組每一年都可以開足足一個月，這是法定規定，目前的法定規定，對不對？ |
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彭部長啓明：上限。 |
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卓院長榮泰：有需要的時候才會…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：這是法定規定，所以本席要請教…… |
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卓院長榮泰：委員，就像我們車子有備胎一樣…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：每一年一部機可以有足足一個月…… |
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卓院長榮泰：有需要的時候才會換備胎。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席沒有請他回答，請不要占據本席的時間。臺中人的健康、臺中人的肺，請院長你要注意，你要關心啊！我們實質理性地來討論，每一部燃煤機組每一年可以運轉一個月，環境部部長你站在這裡，你是最需要照顧人民的健康啊！對不對？ |
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彭部長啓明：報告委員，空污是顯著地減量，然後燃煤也顯著地減少，40%跟30%都很明確的。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：好，我會再繼續跟你討論。院長，我講白了一句話，你就是怕缺電，所以你要犧牲我們臺中人的健康。再請教部長、再請教院長，您剛才說的緊急備用所有的條件，會在你的備用容量6%以下才可以運轉嗎？會在AQI指標80以下才運轉嗎？會不會？ |
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卓院長榮泰：它就是在有…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：會不會？ |
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卓院長榮泰：需要的時候運轉也受到上限的規定。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：就因為這個需要，讓我們心生恐懼啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：有受到上限的規定。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：每一部燃煤機組每一年有一個月的合法運轉，所以…… |
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卓院長榮泰：它不需要的時候就不會運轉。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你現在的能源政策，從王美花部長到現在，展綠的時程都慢了…… |
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主席：楊委員時間暫停…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們真的很緊張。 |
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主席：楊瓊瓔委員，時間暫停。拜託院會尊重發言委員的質詢，請大家輕聲細語好嗎？拜託！拜託！拜託請大家輕聲細語，尊重質詢委員的質詢權，謝謝。楊委員請繼續，時間繼續。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：我再請教卓院長，我們非常理性來討論臺中人關鍵的議題，請問你剛才所開的條件不清不楚，你說需要的時候就可以啟動，我也告訴你依法每一部燃煤機組每一年可以運轉一個月、720小時。所以請教院長，如果你們要運轉的時候、啟用的時候，你會不會徵詢臺中市政府的意見，請教院長？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
郭部長智輝：報告委員，我可以回答…… |
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楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有請你說話！請教卓院長，這個關鍵性的問題，你會徵詢嗎？你會不會徵詢？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我跟委員報告一個最關鍵的問題，我不會不比你關心臺中。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝你的關心，請問你會不會徵詢…… |
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卓院長榮泰：我身分證拿出來，我的籍貫是臺中市，委員知道嗎？ |
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楊委員瓊瓔：請問你會不會徵詢？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我的籍貫是臺中市，委員知道嗎？ |
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楊委員瓊瓔：你既然是臺中市，你更應該要關心，請問你會不會徵詢？當你要啟動備用機組時，你會不會徵詢？ |
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卓院長榮泰：依照辦法必須徵詢，而且沒有必要的時候，我們不會去啟動。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：請問你會不會徵詢？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
卓院長榮泰：依照辦法必須徵詢。 |
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楊委員瓊瓔：依照辦法必須徵詢，你也是臺中人，所以我繼續要告訴你，政府沒有講出真相，剛剛我們說的如果燃氣全面開的時候，我告訴你，我們的環境部長你在這裡，請你講真相！環說書裡頭顯示中火燃氣一期及二期機組上線之後，電廠的溫室氣體排放總量會減少27%，這是對的，但是請你講真相，粒狀物會增加60%，所謂的粒狀物也就是致癌物，這是最嚴肅的一個議題。所以身為臺中人的行政院長，請你正視這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這就是真相。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：因為改善空污是政府的責任，所以我希望我們的綠電發展趕不上社會需求的時候，你應該要冷靜地去思考。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員看一看數據，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：因為PM2.5及懸浮微粒是WHO認定一級的致癌物，環境部部長，請你耳朵聽！所以因此…… |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
彭部長啓明：明顯會減量了。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有請你講話！所以請行政院長看一看，你看到我們臺中市的死亡率什麼最高？癌症。臺灣癌症的三冠王是肺癌，不管是人數，不管是發生率，通通都是最高，因此您剛才所說的，你是臺中人，當你當上了行政院長，應該要重視我們臺中中火的議題…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以我告訴你答案在這裡，我們的方法在這裡，委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：因為你告訴我方法，我告訴你數據。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
卓院長榮泰：數據在這裡。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：臺灣現在的肺癌、肺腺癌是世界各國、國外的3到5倍，是3到5倍喔。因此院長，我希望王美花部長可以做的，在你卓院長任內，你又是臺中人，你應該更要做！ |
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卓院長榮泰：就是這個，一模一樣啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以院長，你們現在的能源政策就是什麼？總統當吸票機，我們人民當什麼？吸塵器！ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不是的？我剛剛已經告訴你這個數字，環境部部長，你在那邊搖頭，你應該跟我們站在同一線！ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
彭部長啓明：我站在同一線，就是要看數據。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：保護我們的環境，保護我們的安全，增氣一定要減煤，你認同嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
彭部長啓明：減煤，已經承諾減煤了。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：增氣一定要減媒，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
彭部長啓明：環評的要求，台電一定要減煤。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：請看。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][1] |
（播放影片） |
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卓院長榮泰：六氣發電、六煤緊備，就是這個啊！完全一樣啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：陸續除役、陸續除役…… |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
卓院長榮泰：緊急備用…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：請你尊重，本席還沒有請你發言。陸續除役、陸續除役，這是賴總統所說的，本席請問卓院長，你的除役是五年、十年，你的規劃時程是怎麼樣呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
卓院長榮泰：2035年的時候就會六氣發電、六煤緊備。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不要再欺騙老百姓了，六煤，為什麼王美花部長可以增一氣減一煤？為什麼你增的這些氣的裝置容量，你還是要保留這六部的燃煤機組？為什麼？請你告訴我，請你告訴我！ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不是總統講的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你是行政院長耶！總統講的，總統講叫你趕快除役！ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不是啊，剛剛委員放的影片裡面，總統講的跟委員說的一模一樣啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：今天環評通過的並非王美花部長所說的雙贏政策！ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員放的影片裡面，總統說的跟這個結果就一模一樣啊，六氣發電、六煤緊備，就是這樣子啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：卓院長，你剛才特別告訴我你是臺中人，我真的非常希望你重視，我不希望說行政院最速的跳票政策就是這個能源政策，這是不對的，這是不對的，請你冷靜再去思維，請你冷靜再思維。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][1] |
環境部長，您的態度，讓我們覺得你沒有為我們的環境在努力，請你看看我們臺中人肺腺癌的人數、肺腺癌的發生率，尤其WHO說了PM2.5就是最大的致癌重要因子，所以請你將心比心，你在這邊不是跟我辯，而是要去維護你的政策正確。所以卓院長，本席再次強調，剛剛你說的，就是未來啟動的時候，備用啟動你會徵詢臺中市政府，是不是？剛剛你說了…… |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
卓院長榮泰：照辦法就是要徵詢市政府。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你要徵詢臺中市政府的同意嘛？是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我請部長再說明一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
彭部長啓明：這個按照程序過去都有了。 |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：是不是？你要徵詢臺中市政府的同意，卓院長，是不是？你要徵詢臺中市政府的同意才得商轉備用容量的…… |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
卓院長榮泰：在緊急備用的情況底下…… |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：要徵詢臺中市政府的同意，對不對？是不是？卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
卓院長榮泰：在緊急備用的情況底下…… |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：要徵詢臺中市政府的同意嘛，是不是？我請你將你緊急備用的方案書面資料給本席，我們一起努力來做。 |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
彭部長啓明：有現成的。 |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
卓院長榮泰：有啊，現在就有。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][1] |
接下來，我們請最後一位登記35號林楚茵委員質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][2] |
再次拜託各位委員，請輕聲細語，楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員，質詢結束了，小聲一點，謝謝，楊瓊瓔委員，你質詢結束了，麻煩小聲一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][3] |
林楚茵委員，請。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
226 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-2-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
125 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138801_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年
度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─
詢答完畢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138801_00004 |