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| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:49:32 - 10:05:02 |
| 影片長度 |
930 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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主席有請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢卓委員好院長好我剛聽到鍾嘉斌委員是針對昨天才劃法來向你告狀不過我當時有另外一個角度來溫馨提醒一下我們院長你今天有沒有打電話給吳思堯委員 |
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30.896 |
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是因為吳秉瑞把主席台的麥克風整個拆起來往旁邊一砸就砸中了吳世耀的手 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.009 |
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85.87 |
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他那個痛苦的表情現在在畫面上都看得讓人家很心疼所以第一個我還是提醒院長意識上怎麼樣是一回事但是吳士堯委員受傷這件事情我覺得你要打電話慰問他一下但你還要慰問一樣東西你知道慰問什麼東西嗎慰問一下麥克風麥克風很可憐吳士堯是被打傷麥克風是被砸爛 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.654 |
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90.596 |
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台灣今年董事長有前雲林縣的農業處長呂政章接任,這個人事是您決定的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
117.214 |
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128.642 |
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當然我們在經過很﹐一段時間﹐多方的徵詢考量﹐我們在最後是決定了這個人選﹐是你決定的嗎﹐是最後決定嗎﹐對﹐不是艾慶德總統決定的嗎﹐這個因為這是﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
132.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
134.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問台灣今年負責的業務是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.452 |
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164.205 |
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他對一些不良債務的處理以及一些資產的管理、使用、收益等等。沒錯嘛,很重要的單位嘛,對不對?那我想請問一下,被您決定安排接任台灣今年董事長的呂政章,有任何金融經驗嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.899 |
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167.64 |
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比起八大工庫、工股行戶跟工股金庫,台灣今年看似單位的規模沒那麼大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.931 |
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207.95 |
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可是你知道,出任董事長都很有來頭的,你知道吧?我唸給你聽,除了施俊吉擔任副院長,有擔任財政部次長的王榮周,財政部前部長的林鄭國,李政章沒有在金融界、銀行界上過一天班。我想請教,專業用人是我們賴清德總統的一個用人的哲學,是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.028 |
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232.548 |
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我們一直在這個方面是比較慎重的。結果您決定用了一個連一天金融業的經驗都沒有的呂政章。你對不起賴清德專業用人的這個理念了。第二個,院長,我跟你講第二個更嚴重。呂政章不但沒有金融背景,家族還涉及弊案、招通器,這個你總知道吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.741 |
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261.94 |
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任用之前確實了解這個狀況也徵詢過相關的問題認為說家族的事業家族成員的事業也不會在他未來的工作上給予任何的方便因為這個是司法調查的當然啦你要跟我講現代的法制沒有家族連坐我也認同可是我要說啊天下專業人才千千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.561 |
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288.987 |
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那你用這個人齁基本上沒有金融專業背景你也說不是個所以啦你只說這個台灣經理好像意思是還可以啦那第二個更重要的是這麼多沒有家族牽扯的專業人才可以用那你都事前知道家族有人設幣、招通器你可不可以顧慮一下我們賴慶祖賴慶祖總有另外一個用人的招牌叫清廉你總知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.536 |
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318.156 |
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結果你們行政院這樣子用人你對得起賴清德總統嗎我們當然有跟透過我們本人的瞭解說家族成員的關係我還以為你說你當然有透過透過跟賴清德總統溝通還是好今天說實在話施俊錡就講了啦現任施俊錡的董事長他很不高興吧他說什麼他說其實不是你決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
326.991 |
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348.028 |
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他要嘛就是誤會那就是你今天沒有追尋賴清德總統專業用人青年用才的這樣的一個執政的用人理念要嘛就是今天所有報紙所有媒體所有外界的檢視呂政章最大最輝煌的經驗就是跟賴清德總統關係很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
349.161 |
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368.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
沒有別的耶 這個也是蠻慘的捏說實在我從過去在行政院或是我們在整個黨務或是選舉過程當中我並沒有發現或是我並沒有遇到或感覺的呂政章董事長跟總統有什麼特別的關係我自己是沒有感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.358 |
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388.536 |
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對阿你又不是總統肚子裡的蛔蟲所以我不會用這個方式或這個角度來衡量一下好啦沒關係啦我告訴你我真的只是提醒啦謝謝這跟我們外界的質疑也很在意的外界的質疑我們請他請財政部多多的監督不能有任何的不法跟特權好啦好啦就後面監督啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.562 |
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更嚴重的事情施俊吉董事長去職他說合理懷疑他的去職是擋人財路你跟施總製長溝通過嗎?不必懷疑啦 這個沒有這樣的考慮不必懷疑喔 擔心國家資產被賤賣絕對不可能 我們對國家資產的處分有非常嚴謹的程序希望之後不要羅致施俊吉的罪名沒有 我們對於施前董事長在任內的勞苦功高我們是永遠記住的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
421.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
430.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
話當然一定要講得漂亮是做人基本的禮貌對不對可是我告訴你施俊傑是民進黨的前副葛魁 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
431.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．羅智強二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
455.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還是他今天照你的邏輯他懷疑不可以還是他今天自己心虛你的意思是這樣嗎沒有心虛的問題他不必要做這種懷疑對我告訴你今天施俊吉他到底有沒有會被羅智罪名會被清算追殺當事人心中最清楚不是你今天你不是當事人你不知道他今天眼前看到所有的景象對任何人如果有不法當然會有調查但是我們現在是沒有當然這第一個喔我第二個跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
511.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
施俊吉這個不平之名啊也不是完全沒有道理今天如果你找一個人過來你比我施俊吉的專業強你比我施俊吉的專業夠比我施俊吉的經驗足我施俊吉被你換了我也沒話說今天是嗎你今天把李政章取代施俊吉將心比心你是施俊吉你能服嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
514.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
新的創意,年輕的創意來,也是一個考量之一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
552.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以你當委員啊?不是,我要講的一件事情就是,你不能憑感覺嘛!憑著感覺走!你今天實際上社會公益,我要講,你今天弄到一個前行政團隊,行政院副院長很高位了捏,很尊榮了捏。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
553.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
580.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他都擔心被羅智罪名,你叫平常深斗小民能不擔心嗎?我對他沒有任何的懷疑,我個人對他沒有任何懷疑。你沒有任何懷疑,他懷疑啊!我說我他懷疑是不合理,不必要的。我回頭要講,我今天真的不客氣說啦,我認為施俊傑講重一點,只是當然是你齁,你是互阻心切啦。他說這人是不是你決定的,所以他不怪你。對不起我沒聽清楚。施俊傑說這人是不是你決定的,他不會怪你啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
581.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
用人為親,不顧專業,還沒上任,就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
624.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
爭議造底你這個人是不是受你這16個字你像今天施俊吉最關切的是什麼他說台灣今年史上最大的資產飆售案蘇志芬召集地方抗爭導致產業退堂使得招標流標然後到最後在投標的時候開價就只剩下13億與底價相差甚遠所以呢各方勢力基於這塊土地已久 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
626.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
645.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
希望無人投標後降價就是可能遭受最大的資產賤賣我告訴你施俊吉這段話坑然有力喔但是委員我們都聽到蘇貞芬委員也有對這件事情的回應跟說法我們應該同時重視但是我跟你講院長起碼拜託法務部嘛了解一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
651.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
652.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
財政部是行政督導． |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
683.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
707.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝你,非常好。來,接下來我要請教您。主委院長,我上次有質詢您,說2008年的時候,擔任立委的賴清德曾經提案要退回行政院總預算。那當時民進黨少數黨,所以提案沒有通過。那我想請教您,2008年賴清德當時退回總預算是胡錦濤主席下達命令來杯葛總預算的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
713.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
731.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
國民黨也沒有任何人會說是胡錦濤下達命令來所謂的杯葛總預算。那我想請教院長,今天國民黨跟民眾黨退回行政院總預算,你會不會認為那是習近平下達命令來杯葛總預算?非常好,我肯定院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
733.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
753.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我告訴你,你這段話齁,最該聽的,當然吳思耀受傷齁,我是覺得要慰問他啦。但你這段話最該聽的也是吳思耀。吳思耀最近真的像瘋狂小紅帽你知道嗎?那小紅帽上升到那種程度齁,非常驚人。重點是小紅帽一般是配大灰狼啦,那沒有他就配大黑熊啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
754.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
783.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們的黑熊學院的那個沈伯陽跟我們的小紅帽吳思瑤齁什麼事都要扣紅帽你剛剛還要慰問他你現在又在沒有沒有我跟你講兩回事就像說財政部要監管台灣金聯法務部一樣要去做所謂的犯罪偵查吳思瑤該被慰問是因為在立法院被吳秉瑞打傷這要慰問啊人之常情啊我也感到我也感到 朝野協商很辛苦的大家在協商齁要心平氣和但是我要跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
784.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
809.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
來 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
810.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
818.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你決定釋憲了嗎?目前我認為我們應該有好的方式,可以透過這種協商溝通。其實我跟你講,院長我還真不反對你去釋憲。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
819.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
820.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．羅智強 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
849.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
876.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
立法院的法律有沒有違憲當然你有你的見解嘛 對不對你認為按照預算案的話不能增加預算嘛 對不對可是我認為是按照法律案啊那你說預算法裡面法律案也要徵詢行政院啊但是我認為武力華質詢行政院院長陳建仁的時候陳建仁就直接講說該修法就修法啊這算不算徵詢但修法的內容跟彌補資金之來源武力華質詢陳建仁算不算徵詢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
878.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
897.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
如果算,但是修法的內容要徵詢啊。還有啊,內容徵詢。你知道每次我們開那麼多會,行政院的官員都有列席,知道吧?還有再一個,你剛剛有一個東西,我跟您稍微溝通一下。徵詢不等於合議啦。但是一定要有達到徵詢的結果。徵詢就是詢問意見。一個徵詢,一個是指出彌補資金之來源。我想做個結論,為什麼認為你視線好? |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
906.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
909.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝羅智強委員質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第19號王定宇 |
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310 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員智強：（9時49分）主席，有請院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：羅委員好。 |
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羅委員智強：院長好！我剛剛聽到鍾佳濱委員針對昨天財劃法向你告狀，不過我倒是由另外一個角度來溫馨提醒院長，你今天有沒有打電話給吳思瑤委員？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
卓院長榮泰：打電話？ |
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羅委員智強：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
卓院長榮泰：今天沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
羅委員智強：沒有？那你待會趕快打電話給他，慰問他一下，他受傷了，你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
卓院長榮泰：昨天看到他的時候還沒有受傷。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
羅委員智強：對，他昨天受傷了，所以你要打電話慰問他。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員提醒。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
羅委員智強：他為什麼受傷，你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果是議事的進行，那我覺得非常不捨。 |
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羅委員智強：是因為吳秉叡把主席臺的麥克風整個拆起來往旁邊一砸，就砸中了吳思瑤的手，他那個痛苦的表情，現在在畫面上都看得讓人家很心疼，所以第一個，我還是提醒院長，議事上怎麼樣那是一回事，但是吳思瑤委員受傷這件事情，我覺得你要打電話慰問他一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好的，好的，謝謝委員提醒。 |
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羅委員智強：但你還要慰問一樣東西，你知道慰問什麼東西嗎？慰問一下麥克風，麥克風很可憐，吳思瑤是被打傷，麥克風是被砸爛啦！整個拔起來砸到地上稀巴爛，那個碎片彈起來打到議事人員，議事人員還要閃欸！能不能請我們吳秉叡委員情緒控管稍微管理一下？所以你最好打電話給吳思瑤，同時也慰問一下立法院的麥克風。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][1] |
請教你第二個問題，台灣金聯董事長由前雲林縣農業處長呂政璋接任，這個人事是你決定的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
卓院長榮泰：當然我們經過一段時間多方徵詢、考量，最後決定了這個人選。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
羅委員智強：所以是你決定的、做最後決定的，不是賴清德總統決定的？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
卓院長榮泰：因為這是財政部裡面的單位，是由我們院裡決定。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
羅委員智強：喔！所以不是賴清德總統決定的，是你決定的，是財政部跟你決定的，對不對？好，那我想請教一下，請問台灣金聯負責的業務是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
卓院長榮泰：它是針對一些不良債務的處理，以及一些資產的管理、使用、收益等等。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
羅委員智強：沒錯嘛！很重要的單位，對不對？請問，被你決定安排接任台灣金聯董事長的呂政璋，有任何金融經驗嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
卓院長榮泰：因為它是處理一些不良債務，並不是傳統的、一般的、平常的金融業務。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
羅委員智強：喔！真的喔！真的是這樣嗎？來，我念給你聽，比起八大公股行庫跟公股金控，台灣金聯看似單位規模沒那麼大，可是你知道出任董事長的都很有來頭，你知道吧？我念給你聽，除了施俊吉擔任過副院長，有擔任財政部次長的王榮周、財政部前部長的林振國，而呂政璋卻沒有在金融界、銀行界上過一天班！我想請教，專業用人是我們賴清德總統的用人哲學，是不是？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們一直在這個方面是比較慎重…… |
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羅委員智強：結果你決定用了一個連一天金融業經驗都沒有的呂政璋，你對不起賴清德專業用人的這個理念…… |
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卓院長榮泰：我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
羅委員智強：第二個，院長，第二個更嚴重，呂政璋不但沒有金融背景，家族還涉及弊案遭通緝，這個你總知道吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們在任用之前確實了解這個狀況，也徵詢過相關的問題，認為家族的事業…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
羅委員智強：家族歸家族，不是連坐法？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
卓院長榮泰：家族成員的事業，不會在他未來的工作上給予任何方便，因為這是司法調查…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
羅委員智強：院長，當然啦！你要跟我講現代法治是沒有家族連坐，這我也認同，可是我要說的是，天下專業人才千千萬，你用這個人，基本上沒有金融專業背景，你也說不出個所以然，只說台灣金聯的業務，意思好像是還可以。第二個，更重要的是，這麼多沒有家族牽扯的專業人才可以用，你事前都已經知道家族有人涉弊遭通緝，你可不可以顧慮一下我們賴清德？賴清德總統另外一個用人的招牌叫做清廉，這你總知道吧！ |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
羅委員智強：結果你們行政院這樣用人，對得起賴清德總統嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們當然有透過他本人了解家族成員的關係、司法關係……有沒有涉案…… |
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羅委員智強：我還以為你要說，當然有透過跟賴清德總統溝通！今天說實在話，施俊吉就講了，現任施俊吉董事長他很不高興，他說什麼？他說其實不是你決定的，施俊吉說對了沒有？是賴清德總統決定的。 |
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卓院長榮泰：他可能有所誤會。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
羅委員智強：好啦，謝謝他的誤會啦！他要嘛就是誤會，那就是你今天沒有遵循賴清德總統專業用人、清廉用才的執政用人理念；要嘛就是今天所有報紙、所有媒體、所有外界在檢視呂政璋最大、最輝煌的經驗，就是跟賴清德總統關係很好，沒有別的欸！其實這個也是蠻慘的。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
卓院長榮泰：說真的，我從過去在行政院或是我們在整個黨務或是選舉過程當中，我並沒有發現，也沒有遇到或感覺呂政璋董事長跟總統有什麼特別的關係，我自己是沒有感覺啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
羅委員智強：你又不是總統肚子裡的蛔蟲，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以我不會用這個方式或這個角度來衡量一個人。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
羅委員智強：好啦，沒關係啦！我告訴你，我真的只是提醒啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
羅委員智強：這跟我們賴清德總統用人的邏輯是有出入的，我跟你講還有一個更嚴重的事情喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們對於外界的質疑也很在意的，對於外界的質疑，我們會請財政部多多的監督，不能有任何的不法跟特權。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
羅委員智強：好啦，就後面監督啦！更嚴重的事情，施俊吉董事長去職，他說合理懷疑他的去職是擋人財路，你跟施董事長溝通過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不必懷疑啦，這個沒有這樣的考量…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
羅委員智強：不必懷疑嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
卓院長榮泰：也不是被…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
羅委員智強：他擔心國家資產被賤賣。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
卓院長榮泰：絕對不可能，我們對國家資產的處分有非常嚴謹的程序。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
羅委員智強：希望之後不要羅織施俊吉的罪名。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對於施前董事長在任內的勞苦功高，我們是永遠記住的。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
羅委員智強：對啊！話當然一定要講得漂亮，這是做人基本的禮貌，對不對？可是我告訴你，施俊吉是民進黨的前副閣揆，如果連他都有會被執政者清算追殺、羅織罪名的擔憂的時候，院長你沒有發現問題嚴重到什麼程度嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沒有，沒有委員說的那個未來的發展，現在都沒有這種…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
羅委員智強：那是你覺得，我要講的是施俊吉的感受啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以我說他的懷疑是不合理。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
羅委員智強：他的雷達錯了？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
卓院長榮泰：他的懷疑是不合理的，也不必…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
羅委員智強：他的懷疑是不合理的，對不對？照你的邏輯，他的懷疑不合理，還是他今天自己心虛，你的意思是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沒有心虛的問題，他不必做這種懷疑。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
羅委員智強：我告訴你，今天施俊吉他到底有沒有被羅織罪名、會不會被清算追殺，當事人心中最清楚，今天你不是當事人，你不知道他眼前看到的所有景象。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，任何人如果有不法，當然會有調查，但是我們現在是沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
羅委員智強：這是第一個，第二個我要跟你講施俊吉這個不平之鳴也不是完全沒有道理，今天如果你找一個人過來，比我施俊吉的專業強、比我施俊吉的專業夠、比我施俊吉的經驗足，我施俊吉被你換了，我也沒話說，但今天是嗎？你今天用呂政璋取代施俊吉，將心比心，你是施俊吉，你能服嗎？心能服嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
卓院長榮泰：政務人員跟國營事業單位的負責人，我們都是在全盤人事考量底下，做一種新的考量…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
羅委員智強：全盤人事考量？我質詢到現在為止，我告訴你…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以用新的創意、年輕的創意也是一個考量之一。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
羅委員智強：創意啊，好棒喔！我也好有創意喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
卓院長榮泰：因為你當委員啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
羅委員智強：院長，我毛遂自薦一下可以嗎？其實我要講的一件事情是你不能憑感覺嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不是感覺，這個我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
羅委員智強：憑著感覺走！你知道社會公義……我要講你今天弄到一個前行政院副院長，其實他已經很高位、很尊榮了，連他都擔心被羅織罪名，你叫平常的升斗小民能不擔心嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我對他沒有任何的懷疑，我個人對他沒有任何懷疑。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
羅委員智強：你沒有任何懷疑，他懷疑啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我說他的懷疑是不合理、不必要的。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
羅委員智強：今天真的要不客氣的說啦，我認為施俊吉講中了一點，當然你是護主心切，他說這個人事不是你能決定的，所以他不怪你。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對不起，我沒聽清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
羅委員智強：施俊吉說這個人事不是你決定的，他不會怪你啦！但是如果今天…… |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那我必須找機會跟施前董事長說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
羅委員智強：好啦，你好好找他說明啦！用人唯親、不顧專業、還沒上任就已爭議罩頂，你這個人事我就送你這16個字，現在施俊吉最關切的是什麼？他說臺灣金聯史上最大的資產標售案，蘇治芬召集地方抗爭，導致產業退堂，使得招標流標，到最後投標的時候開價就只剩下13億，與底價相差甚遠，所以各方勢力覬覦這塊土地已久，希望無人投標後降價，就是可能遭受最大的資產賤賣。我告訴你，施俊吉這段話鏗然有力喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
卓院長榮泰：但是委員，我們都聽到蘇治芬委員也有對這件事情的回應跟說法…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
羅委員智強：是啊，當然啊，我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們應該同時重視、了解。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
羅委員智強：但是我跟你講，院長，起碼拜託法務部了解一下吧，照這樣情況之下，可能以施俊吉的說法，總有涉及弊案的可能性吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
卓院長榮泰：有任何的不法，法務部、檢調機關當然要執行…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
羅委員智強：好，謝謝你。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
卓院長榮泰：但是財政部未來在任何土地的處分上面，一定加強監督。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
羅委員智強：財政部是行政督導，法務部是犯罪偵查，兩個不衝突，沒錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
卓院長榮泰：一定加強監督。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
羅委員智強：兩個不衝突嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們有員警的人事管理跟國家資產、財產處理的程序…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
羅委員智強：院長，我剛剛到底在問什麼？我剛剛跟你講沒衝突啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沒衝突啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
羅委員智強：你要說財政部加強監管，但是法務部是犯罪偵查啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這個要雙管並進。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
羅委員智強：謝謝你，非常好。接下來我要請教您，卓院長，我上次有質詢您，2008年的時候擔任立委的賴清德曾經提案要退回行政院總預算，當時民進黨是少數黨，所以提案沒有通過。我想請教您，2008年賴清德當時提退回總預算，是胡錦濤主席下達命令來杯葛總預算的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
卓院長榮泰：絕對不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
羅委員智強：絕對不是，我也跟你保證絕對不是，國民黨也沒有任何人會說是胡錦濤下達命令來杯葛總預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我也沒有這樣說啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
羅委員智強：我想請教您，我想請教院長，今天國民黨跟民眾黨退回行政院總預算，你會不會認為那是習近平下達命令來杯葛總預算？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我從來沒有這樣說。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
羅委員智強：非常好！我肯定院長。我告訴你，你這段話最該聽的，當然，吳思瑤受傷，我是覺得要慰問他，但你這段話最該聽的也是吳思瑤，吳思瑤最近真的像瘋狂小紅帽，你知道嗎？小紅帽上升到那種程度，非常驚人，重點是小紅帽一般是配大灰狼，他沒有，他是配大黑熊。我們的黑熊學院的沈伯洋跟我們的小紅帽吳思瑤什麼事都要扣紅帽…… |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員，你剛剛還有慰問他，你現在又在這裡批評他…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
羅委員智強：沒有、沒有，我跟你講，兩回事…… |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們一起慰問他啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
羅委員智強：就像財政部要監管台灣金聯，法務部一樣要去做所謂的犯罪偵查。 |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
卓院長榮泰：朝野…… |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
羅委員智強：吳思瑤該被慰問，是因為在立法院被吳秉叡打傷，這要慰問，人之常情，我也感到…… |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
卓院長榮泰：朝野協商很辛苦的。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
羅委員智強：當然、當然。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
卓院長榮泰：大家在協商要心平氣和。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
羅委員智強：但是我要跟你講，不要扣紅帽啦。你沒有，不是說你啦，真的！大家就事論事。接下來我也知道，因為說真的，今天跟你談總預算的退回，你的立場我都知道啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
羅委員智強：但是你有說一句話，你說你要思考釋憲，對不對？有吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
卓院長榮泰：當然，那個是憲法賦予憲政機關的法定權責之一。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
羅委員智強：你決定釋憲了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
卓院長榮泰：目前我認為我們應該有好的方式，可以透過這種協商溝通…… |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
羅委員智強：其實我跟你講，院長，我還真不反對你去釋憲。 |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
卓院長榮泰：真的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
羅委員智強：真的啊，因為第一個，大法官那麼聽話，釋憲多好，方便嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
卓院長榮泰：上次我們釋憲，你也罵很多啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
羅委員智強：什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對於職權行使法釋憲，你也很多意見啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
羅委員智強：我很多意見…… |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
卓院長榮泰：現在又同意我…… |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
羅委員智強：是因為大法官今天的表現太稱你們的職，我當然有意見啊，大法官今天完全照著民進黨的感覺走，超強的！你趕快去釋憲，它一定會護你們的，真的，我建議你。我如果是你，就釋憲，但因為我不是你，我就瞧不起大法官，就是這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[125][1] |
第二個，我要講，立法院的法律有沒有違憲，當然你有你的見解，對不對？你認為按照預算法的話，不能增加預算，對不對？可是我認為是按照法律案啊，你說預算法裡面，法律案也要徵詢行政院，但是我認為伍麗華質詢行政院院長陳建仁的時候，陳建仁就直接講說該修法就修法啊，這算不算徵詢？ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
卓院長榮泰：但修法的內容跟彌補資金之來源…… |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
羅委員智強：伍麗華質詢陳建仁算不算徵詢啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果算…… |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
羅委員智強：如果算？就是算。 |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
卓院長榮泰：但是修法的內容要徵詢啊，還有…… |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
羅委員智強：修法內容徵詢，你知道每次我們開那麼多會，行政院官員都有列席，知道吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
羅委員智強：還有，再一個，你剛剛有一個東西，我跟您稍微溝通一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
羅委員智強：徵詢不等於合意啦，沒錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
卓院長榮泰：但是一定要有達到徵詢的結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
羅委員智強：徵詢就是詢問意見…… |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
卓院長榮泰：兩個，一個徵詢，一個是指出彌補資金之來源。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
羅委員智強：好，因為時間到了，我要做個結論。我為什麼認為你釋憲好？釋憲代表什麼？在釋憲之前，你就先遵守法律，因為一無復議，法律也公布了，你先遵守法律，編足預算，釋憲將來反正你們一定贏嘛，釋憲贏了以後，你不執行，立法院也拿你沒辦法！ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的建議。 |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
主席：謝謝羅智強委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[141][1] |
接下來我們請登記第19號王定宇委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
226 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-2-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
125 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138801_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年
度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─
詢答完畢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138801_00004 |
| IVOD_ID |
156498 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156498 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-7 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-05T09:49:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-05T10:05:02+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |