| IVOD_ID |
156339 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156339 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-30T13:14:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-30T13:24:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/da0d5cdf8d126adeca2389c3649bd9d23b480ede9050f16a01f23eb7619bd4023f3c00194d6c03235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:14:13 - 13:24:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【10月30日及31日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 主席請到何部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.526 |
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委員好部長好部長我們今天討論全時職缺缺工的問題所以有一個問題我想要先先釐清一下就是我看我們最低工資呢長期以來就是時薪高於月薪是那有沒有辦法把月薪提高到到到時薪的的總和怎麼算呢就是就是時薪乘以8再乘以 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.839 |
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65.277 |
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22天來當作最低工資因為我覺得這個問題不解決全職的職缺缺工不會改善因為我用part-time領的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.015 |
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95.002 |
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一樣的工時是比最低工資高的 這個可能很多人會不願意投入全職的職缺 這個部長有什麼看法?是 非常同意委員的提醒 這也是我們最低工資審議委員我們今年有很熱烈的討論這個問題 那沒有成功的原因是什麼?你們假如很熱烈討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.924 |
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123.036 |
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因為明年都已經公佈了嗎?還是有一定的差距嗎?倒是我們現在再慢慢把它拉齊啦。你這樣明年可能要差到4千7百多。是。就是因為我們今年的幅度我們就把它拉到跟那個甚至稍低一點。比那個月薪的條幅稍低一點。我們再來慢慢的會拉齊這兩邊。不是。 |
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127.947 |
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139.238 |
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剛剛劉建國委員也提到就是求職者不願意倒職的因素裡面有超過60%是對待遇有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.358 |
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170.399 |
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為什麼是把時薪的條幅拉低而不是把月薪的條幅拉高部長剛剛講的是你們討論的時候想要讓他趨近接近嘛那有兩個方法你們為什麼會選擇拉低時薪的條幅而不是拉高月薪的條幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個就是光是部長這樣子回答就表示臺灣的要脫離地心的環境非常非常的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.23 |
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212.498 |
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不是委員這可能我要再解釋更清楚一點這個是我們整體會去調高最低工資會逐漸的往上走的一定都是往上調可是呢月薪的部分他能不能一次就去拉超過這麼高這是一個最低工資審議委員會必須討論的問題也不是我能決定的這個要整個大家有共識才行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
239.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
而他條：如果是那個幅度一下子太高喔整個社會能不能承受也是問題對企業主可能沒有辦法承受這個我可以接受我現在是說為什麼審議委員會有意識到全職的最低工資跟時薪是有差距的那在審議的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.221 |
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261.338 |
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是把時薪的條幅降低而不是把全薪的條幅拉高懂我意思嗎?因為這個是部長剛剛回答的喔是是是委員我剛剛要再跟您補充你聊口誤你就說口誤沒有關係我是可以接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.158 |
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272.083 |
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當然啦我實習那個部分的條幅其實是去掉尾數啦他倒並不是說我刻意去把它降低啦因為台灣的薪資確實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是偏低啦。也因為偏低所以才我們今天才討論這個問題啦。是是是。按照勞動部最新的調查就是到今年7月底全國缺工長達半年找不到職缺的有6.6萬。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
298.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
按照行業別,長達半年找不到的依序有製造業、批發業、批發零售業、營建、旅宿業、社會工作服務業。請問部長,上述業別增才半年沒有辦法補足的主要原因是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
嗯對其實當然他這也是超過半年啦齁超過半年都一直沒有辦法待遇跟勞動條件都是原因啦一定都是主要原因好那對所以您去看齁那我就直接問那你你們到底有沒有解決的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
343.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我看部長在回答原因的時候速度很快那你們有沒有因應的方案?懂我意思嗎?因為你們肩負著全國勞工的工作環境工作條件等等的照顧這是勞動部成立最大的宗旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.044 |
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377.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
包括職業訓練讓他在職場上可以一直精進讓他取得更好的薪資這個都是你們的工作那原因你知道你有沒有因應的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對我因應的方案當然委員就是我現在最大的困難我想是我們會發生在產業端這邊對所以我們必須要有效的跨部會整合然後看能不能把這個我們比如我們現在主動在做學校部長我的理解我這樣子講就是說產業界那邊應該要比較顧慮的是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是經濟部那我現在是說你站在勞動部的立場你怎麼因應長期缺工然後低薪的現象因為跨部會整合就是這樣子嘛勞動部有勞動部維護勞工權益的政策方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
428.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那經濟部有經濟部扶植並且確保產業持續發展的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
464.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
的責任那兩個部會再去做溝通整合出來一個讓企業可以永續發展讓勞工的薪資可以提高讓勞工的就業市場就業環境工作環境就業市場可以更好的政策我現在是問你你們有沒有這一方面的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
473.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是我們就是當然我們比如我們訓練人我們執訓人你們執訓人你們部長你知道參加政府辦理的執訓的參與人數也逐年在下降你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
496.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是沒錯。那個疫情期間下降蠻多的。疫情過了這一兩年跟疫情前有回升嗎?有回升到疫情前嗎?有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
516.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好跟委員報告我們現在因為疫情我這個就已經跳過好多題了是是是跟委員報告我們現在職業訓練現在就是說對於這個重點產業跟部位跟地方我們在合作現在訓練其實每年逐年在增加一直在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
517.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
534.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第2個就是剛剛委員提到就是說我們對於那個很多這個長期缺工這一個部分我們其實現在在應對這樣的一個議題上其實我們就是為他們也現在有做一些量身的訂做就是一些專案的一些沒有的機制那針對他的一個條件上我們也提供相關的 署長時間的關係我問一個問題這個訓練增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
540.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
566.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
來接受質詢的人增加到底對於投入就業市場之間有沒有成正比?懂我意思嗎?你們會去做後續的追蹤嗎?跟委員報告,我們追蹤有三個指標,第一個就訊漏就業率第二個是關聯性,第三個是他的薪資條件有沒有提升,這三個我們大概都會有相關的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
595.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那我現在是問有沒有效果啊你這三個指標倒是下的不錯啦只是說到底來訓練跟他的就業之間有沒有正面的提升啊委員報告這個我們其實在訓後就業率其實每年都有在提升有在成長那這部分其實我們也可以提供給委員參考訓後就業率有在成長那署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
597.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
604.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
應該也要去關心看看就是就業了以後有沒有因為參加勞動部的質詢薪資獲得滿足啦好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席 |
| gazette.lineno |
1282 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
楊委員曜：（13時14分）謝謝主席，請何部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請何部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
楊委員曜：部長好。部長，我們今天討論全時職位缺工的問題，所以我想要先釐清一個問題，長期以來我們的最低工資就是時薪高於月薪，有沒有辦法把月薪提高到時薪的總和？怎麼算呢？就是把時薪乘以8再乘以22天作為最低工資。我覺得這個問題不解決的話，全職職位缺工的問題不會改善，因為一樣工時擔任part time領的錢會高於全職的工資，導致很多人不願意投入全職的職缺。部長，對這點有什麼看法？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
何部長佩珊：是，非常同意委員的提醒，其實這也是今年我們最低工資審議委員熱烈討論的問題，所以我們今年…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
楊委員曜：假如你們很熱烈的討論，沒有成功的原因是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
何部長佩珊：不是沒有成功，委員，時薪…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
楊委員曜：因為明年的已經公布了，還是有一定的差距嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
何部長佩珊：我們正慢慢的把它拉齊啦！我們希望…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
楊委員曜：你知道明年可能要差到四千七百多？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
何部長佩珊：是，我們今年的幅度就是把它拉到稍低一點、比月薪的調幅稍低一點，再來會慢慢的將兩邊拉齊。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
楊委員曜：不是，剛剛劉建國委員也提到，求職者不願意到職的因素中有超過60%是對待遇有意見，為什麼是把時薪的調幅拉低，而不是把月薪的調幅拉高？部長，剛剛你說你們在討論時是想讓兩者趨於接近，但是在兩個方法中為什麼你們會選擇拉低時薪的調幅，而不是拉高月薪的調幅，光是部長這樣的回答就表示臺灣要脫離低薪環境仍然非常非常的困難。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
何部長佩珊：不是，委員，我可能要再解釋得更清楚一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
楊委員曜：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
何部長佩珊：我們整體的最低工資會逐漸的往上調、一定都是往上調，但是月薪的部分能不能一次就拉超過這麼高，這是最低工資審議委員會必須討論的問題，也不是我能決定的，這個必須要大家整個都有共識才行。如果幅度真的一下調整太高，整個社會能不能承受也是問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
楊委員曜：企業主可能沒辦法承受，這點我可以接受，但我現在要問，為什麼審議委員會意識到全職的最低工資與時薪是有差距，在審議時卻是把時薪的調幅降低，而不是把全薪的調幅拉高？懂我的意思嗎？因為這個是部長剛剛回答的喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
何部長佩珊：是，委員，我要再向你做個補充…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
楊委員曜：假如你是口誤就說口誤，沒有關係！我是可以接受的。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
何部長佩珊：時薪那個部分的調幅其實是去掉尾數，並不是我們刻意去把它降低啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
楊委員曜：因為臺灣的薪資確實是偏低啦！也因為偏低，今天我們才會討論這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
何部長佩珊：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
楊委員曜：按照勞動部最新的調查，到今年7月底，全國缺工長達半年找不到人的職缺有6.6萬。按照行業別，長達半年找不到員工的，依序是製造業、批發及零售業、營建、旅宿業及社會工作服務業。請問部長，上述業別徵才長達半年以上沒辦法補足的主要原因是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
何部長佩珊：其實當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
楊委員曜：這裡是指超過半年都沒有辦法…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
何部長佩珊：待遇與勞動條件都是原因，一定都是主要原因。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
楊委員曜：我就直接問，你們到底有沒有解決的方案？我看部長在回答原因的時候速度很快，那你們有沒有因應的方案？懂我的意思嗎？因為你們肩負著全國勞工工作環境、工作條件等等的照顧，這是成立勞動部最大的宗旨，包括職業訓練，讓他在職場上可以一直精進，讓他取得更好的薪資，這些都是你們的工作，原因你已經知道，那你們有沒有因應的方案？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
何部長佩珊：關於我們因應的方案，現在最大的困難我想是發生在產業端這邊，所以我們必須有效的跨部會整合，然後看能不能把……比如我們現在主動在做…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
楊委員曜：就我的理解，產業界那邊比較要顧慮的應該是經濟部…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
何部長佩珊：我也需要他們的…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
楊委員曜：我現在是說站在勞動部的立場，你怎麼因應長期缺工以及低薪的現象？因為跨部會整合就是這樣子，勞動部有勞動部維護勞工權益的政策方向，經濟部有經濟部扶植並且確保產業持續發展的責任，兩個部會再去溝通，整合出來一個讓企業可以永續發展，讓勞工的薪資可以提高，讓勞工的工作環境、就業市場可以更好的政策，我現在是問你們有沒有這一方面的政策？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
何部長佩珊：是，比如我們職訓的人，我們找人…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
楊委員曜：關於你們的職訓，部長，你知道參加政府辦理職訓的參與人數也逐年在下降嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
何部長佩珊：是沒錯，疫情期間下降蠻多的。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
楊委員曜：不是啦，疫情過了之後這一兩年跟疫情前有回升嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
何部長佩珊：有，有稍微回升。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
楊委員曜：回升到疫情前嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
蔡署長孟良：快接近了。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
楊委員曜：有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，我們現在因為疫情的原因有…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
楊委員曜：這個就已經跳過好多題了啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
蔡署長孟良：是，跟委員報告，針對職業訓練，現在就是對於重點產業，我們跟部會、跟地方在合作，現在訓量其實逐年一直在增加。第二個是剛剛委員提到很多產業長期缺工的部分，現在在應對這樣的議題上，其實我們也有為他們量身訂做，就是一些專案媒合的機制，針對他們的條件，我們也提供相關輔導。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
楊委員曜：署長，因為時間的關係，我問你一個問題，就是說訓量增加，來接受職訓的人增加，到底對於投入就業市場之間有沒有成正比？懂我意思嗎？你們會去做後續的追蹤嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，我們追蹤有三個指標：第一個是訓後就業率，第二個是關聯性，第三個是他的薪資條件有沒有提升。這三個我們大概都會有相關的評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
楊委員曜：我現在是問有沒有效果啊？你這三個指標倒是下得不錯，只是說來接受訓練跟他的就業之間到底有沒有正面的提升？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，我們的訓後就業率其實每年都有在提升、有在成長，這部分的資料我們也可以提供給委員參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
楊委員曜：訓後就業率…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
蔡署長孟良：訓後就業率有在成長。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
楊委員曜：署長應該也要去關心看看他們就業了以後，有沒有因為參加勞動部的職訓而讓薪資獲得滿足，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
蔡署長孟良：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
楊委員曜：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
主席：謝謝楊曜委員。接下來請陳瑩委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
276 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-26-6 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
199 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139201_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139201_00004 |