| IVOD_ID |
156304 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156304 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-30T11:31:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-30T11:40:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/da0d5cdf8d126aded04581739336fea14d3d0b4a24d41de394934db31926c3006df6a493928834075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:31:44 - 11:40:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查司法院函請審議「稅務行政事件審理法草案」案。
二、審查司法院函請審議「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。
【10月30日及31日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席以及各位先進有請財政部的理事長請理事長理事長好是有關於昨天開始到今天有個事情不斷的延燒我想你知道我問你什麼有關於雲端種樹籌獎活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.473 |
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55.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
目前我們已經在瞭解中 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.203 |
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有結果嗎?跟委員報告因為就是昨天因為網路上面有很多的這方面的新聞以後我們已經有請台北國稅局因為這次他是主辦單位那請台北國稅局去洽廠商瞭解所有的系統還有就是所有的運作的過程那也跟委員報告其實台北國稅局已經把那個廠商的這個電腦系統抽獎系統的相關資料都已經帶回局裡面去了目前正在做這個檢視當中 |
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107.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.775 |
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有沒有可能駭客入侵?這也一併在了解。外界啊,跟著就有人跟我提到,說強烈質疑這四位重複抽到大獎的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
123.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你現在來講就是那個比例很低很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.705 |
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164.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
請問你啊,你那個父母到底是多少?父母因為他的三次抽獎,因為他們可以參加就是第一次第二次第三次他只要連續有去幾點數有捐贈發票進行這個整個活動的一些遊戲規則的話都可以參加抽獎而且也可以累計抽獎的次數那這個部分因為他有涉及到一個比較細的統計資料是不是我可以會後再另外提供給委員好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.523 |
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170.249 |
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因為原來昨天講了9萬,今天講了12萬,到底是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.307 |
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195.804 |
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什麼時候可以有結果嗎?應該這個統計表應該今天下午應該就可以提供給委員明天可以明天以前可以公佈他嗎?正式的報告那就要看今天我們那個整個調查過程就是發現他每一個環節到底實際上的狀況是怎樣這個部分我沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.825 |
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203.666 |
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你需要法務部或事務發部幫你們嗎?事務發部這方面數字比較清楚,事務會方面你們來做,大家都覺得你們可能不夠力。不過我想我們先自己努力看看,如果需要其他機關的協助,我們也會麻煩其他方法。三天以內可以把結果出來嗎?因為明天可能放假,說不定。明天可能放假,然後就沒有了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.85 |
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225.01 |
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議員：賴士葆議員：賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
257.296 |
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議員,因為這個系統是廠商﹑外包給廠商來設計跟處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.69 |
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您請問我想請那個司法院的黃副秘書長請黃副秘書長我就請問你啊這個在民主國家是人民最大還是官員最大? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我想民主國家所有的政府的人都是要對民眾負責嘛對嘛所有的任何的措施就是人民最大人民做的直接民權就是公投代議事包括立委包括這個有大法官屬於代議事我這樣講我對吧公投的部分不是我這樣講我對吧我請問你公投是直接民權然後這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們的立委的﹑立出來的法律以及大法官的解釋是屬於大議事 這個講法對吧我想大法官應該不是大議啦當然大議啊 這是蘇永青以前當過你們司法院的副院長吧 他也是他公開寫的啊這個是大議事 這個不是直接民權 最少不是直接民權吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.148 |
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375.201 |
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對不對 這不是直接明確 所以我們很清楚 現在民進黨的委員開口閉口講說哎呀你不要做違憲 如果要真的講啊 你給吳思耀多少時間 那給我多少時間啊 這個主席啊 你不要站起來讓我講話 不要超過兩分鐘 不要緊張喔 不要超過兩分鐘吳思耀委員不斷地強調說不要做違憲的壘犯 民進黨就是違憲的壘犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
392.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
韓國憲法講的很清楚。中華民國主權包括台灣地區跟大陸地區他們打死都不承認。這個就是到底的你既然要說中華民國憲法要不要違憲。現在整個政策都在違憲了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
403.114 |
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433.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
雖然治理行間講的但是實際上就實質廢死老闆心當然不能接受要怎麼辦呢你說修憲處理這怎麼修憲處理呢當然就是公投裏面公投復決法律跟復決大法官的這個憲法法庭或者是憲法法庭的一個裁判文為什麼不可以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
488.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
最早的民進黨的先進門還要整個來講要制憲了用公投來整個推翻中華民國憲法都可以這樣做了為什麼我們不可以去對於大法官的制憲來加以公投我們真的不懂啊當大法官不斷的扭曲自己不斷的指向權力靠攏不斷的已經變成過街老鼠的時候人民要起來講話這就是公投法 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
489.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
謝謝賴委員,謝謝黃富民組長。 |
| gazette.lineno |
655 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時31分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請財政部李次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請李次長。 |
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李次長慶華：委員好。 |
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賴委員士葆：次長，從昨天開始到今天，有件事不斷延燒，我想你應該知道我要問你什麼，也就是雲端種樹抽獎活動，我的標題寫，這是大作弊！我們看結果，居然有四個人重複中大獎。如果是一個大獎、一個小獎，或都是小獎，還沒有關係；但都是中大獎，比如有人抽到兩支iPhone，兩部Dyson，這就讓人感覺財政部有問題啊！我問你，廠商有作弊嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
李次長慶華：目前我們已經在了解中。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：有結果嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
李次長慶華：跟委員報告，因為昨天網路上有很多這方面的新聞，我們已經請主辦單位臺北國稅局接洽廠商，了解所有的系統及運作過程。也跟委員報告，其實臺北國稅局已經把廠商的電腦抽獎系統的相關資料帶回局裡去了，目前正在檢視當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：有沒有可能是駭客入侵？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
李次長慶華：也一併在了解中。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：剛才有人跟我提到，外界強烈質疑這四位重複抽到大獎的是財政部裡面的人？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
李次長慶華：不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：是這樣子嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
李次長慶華：剛才羅智強委員也有質詢，我們很快地請臺北國稅局去查證，都不是國稅局的…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：都不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
李次長慶華：都不是財政部的同仁。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：其實那個比例很低、很低啊！請問分母到底是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
李次長慶華：因為可以抽獎三次，也就是參加者可以參加第一次、第二次和第三次，只要有連續集點數、有捐贈發票、有依照活動規則進行遊戲的都可以參加抽獎，而且可以累計抽獎次數。由於這部分有涉及到一些比較細的統計資料，是不是我會後再另外提供給委員，好嗎？因為我現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：昨天講9萬，今天講12萬，到底是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
李次長慶華：我可能要另外麻煩臺北國稅局詳細的分析，然後再提供給委員參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以有結果？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
李次長慶華：今天下午應該就可以把統計表提供給委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：明天以前可以公布答案嗎？正式的報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
李次長慶華：這要看今天的調查過程而定，也就是每一個環節及實際上的狀況是怎樣，這部分我沒有把握明天一定會有結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們需不需要法務部或數發部幫忙？數發部對這方面的數字比較清楚。數位方面由你們來做，大家都覺得你們可能不夠力，會不會？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
李次長慶華：我們先自己努力看看，如果需要其他機關的協助，我們也會麻煩…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：結果可以在三天以內出來嗎？說不定明天放假，然後就沒有了！接著也是放假日，這件事就沒有了，但外界非常關注這件事。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
李次長慶華：委員，我們一定會儘快…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：三天可以嗎？三天？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
李次長慶華：我真的沒有辦法在這邊承諾，因為不是我們……要看整個系統的狀況，還有資料複雜度以及整個驗證的情形，所以我只能跟委員說一定會儘快。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：你敢不敢保證廠商絕對沒有作弊？絕對不會有駭客入侵這兩種情形？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
李次長慶華：我不敢在這邊打包票。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：那我們就很擔心了。財政部管我們稅的資料，若被駭客入侵了，那麼我們所有人、幾百萬戶的報稅資料通通被駭客入侵…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
李次長慶華：報告委員，這個系統外包給廠商設計跟處理，所以這部分我們沒辦法保證！但財資中心所管理的所有納稅人的資料，我們可以掛保證，絕對不會有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，請回。請司法院黃副秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
主席：請黃副秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
黃副秘書長麟倫：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問在民主國家是人民最大，還是官員最大？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
黃副秘書長麟倫：民主國家所有政府的人，都是要對民眾負責。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：對嘛。所有任何的措施，就是人民最大，人民做的直接民權就是公投，代議士包括立委、包括大法官，都屬於代議士，我這樣講，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
黃副秘書長麟倫：公投的部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，我這樣的講法，對嗎？我請問你，公投是直接民權，立委立出來的法律以及大法官的解釋，是屬於代議士，這個講法對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
黃副秘書長麟倫：我想大法官應該不是代議。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：當然代議啊。這是蘇永欽，以前當過司法院的副院長，他公開寫的啊。這個是代議士，這個不是直接民權，最少不是直接民權，對不對？這不是直接民權，所以我們很清楚，現在民進黨的委員開口閉口就說：「唉呀！你們不要違憲。」如果要真的講…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
主席：你給吳思瑤多少時間，不給我多少時間你不要站起來，讓我講完，不超過2分鐘，你不要緊張，不會超過2分鐘。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][1] |
吳思瑤委員不斷強調不要做違憲的累犯，民進黨就是危險的累犯。中華民國憲法講的很清楚，中華民國主權包括臺灣地區跟大陸地區，他們打死都不承認，這個就是道地的。你既然要說中華民國憲法，說不要違憲，現在整個政策都在違憲，只要兩岸交流一多馬上就抬出國安法來，而且民進黨委員居然還提可以用這個來解散一個政黨，這種話都說出來了，真的是違憲累犯，就是民進黨，還有誰？我們來看，不管怎麼樣，這個看民意，民意最大，八成以上的都反對廢死，大法官卻實質廢死，雖然字裡行間講的，但是實際上就是實質廢死，老百姓當然不能接受。怎麼辦呢？你說修憲處理，這個怎麼修憲處理呢？當然就是公投，複決法律跟複決大法官的憲法法庭，或者是憲法法庭的裁判文，為什麼不可以？最早的民進黨先進們還要制憲，用公投來推翻中華民國憲法，都可以這樣做了，為什麼我們不可以去對於大法官的釋憲來加以公投？我們真的不懂啊。當大法官不斷地扭曲自己，不斷地只向權力靠攏，不斷地已經變成過街老鼠的時候，人民要起來講話。這就是公投法的精髓，有什麼不可以？我就不知道為什麼是累犯？如果真的是累犯，民進黨的很多先進都是累犯，現在就正在進行式，將中華民國憲法視若無物。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
主席：好，謝謝賴委員，謝謝黃副秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][1] |
接下來，有請翁委員曉玲發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
198 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-36-10 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
145 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139201_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查司法院函請審議「稅務行政事件審理法草案」案；二、審查司法院函請審議「行政法院
組織法部分條文修正草案」案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139201_00003 |