| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:32:11 - 11:41:27 |
| 影片長度 |
556 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請經濟部部長、環境部首長就「我國對設置SRF發電廠之規劃評估，及設置SRF發電廠對我國環境之影響」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席、各位委員、有請部長。請郭部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
59.021 |
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本席再次邀請經濟部尤其是水利署要依法行政。原住民主基本法第20條規定政府承認原住民族土地的權利。行政院核定公有土地增編原住民保育地處理人者,訂得很清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
88.477 |
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有下列情形之意者．該土地不得政變為原住民保留地．就是兩個條文．土地法14條．但是呢．土地法14條這個部分．經過工廠管理機關同意．就可以．水利法823條是不得私有．水利法823條定得很清楚．尋常洪水位．行水區之土地．不得移轉為私有．我們絕對遵守這個法例． |
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91.019 |
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116.706 |
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土地法14條海岸一定限度內國產署的全部都同意振化變保留地唯獨所謂的可通用之水道及其沿岸而事實上原住民現在所尤其一些個案都不是可通用之水道根本就沒有辦法通用內政部 |
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117.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
145.561 |
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修正了這個《土地法》14條第一項各款規定不得私有之土地這裡面特別提到只要工廠管理機關就可以同意就可以經濟部水利署106年也根據這個內政部的函式內政部的所修正的處理人者但是內政部水利署 |
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146.704 |
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146.884 |
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第二段． |
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172.903 |
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197.927 |
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請各河川管理機關竊依未來治理首席之範圍．認定．很清楚．未來治理首席之範圍．我們先退一步到這邊．並依原計法辦理．好,我們來看這個．這是卑南溪．部長你看一下．這個溪很清楚． |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
199.244 |
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225.98 |
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我們的部落在最上方我們的部落這個13部落我跟部長講非常非常可悲可憐的部落為什麼呢這個部落本來在哪裡呢現在的自航機場本來在自航機場為了要蓋自航機場 |
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230.027 |
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237.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
提供給國家為了國防搬到這邊我們自己的土地好 我們看這條北南溪提防蓋囉提防在哪裡呢好 我來看一下這條道 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
258.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
286.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
比較明顯的路那是路吉林路在吉林路的下方那個白線的地方已經有堤防了部長已經有堤防了而且這個堤防啊距離這個溪距離這條溪非常的遠非常非常的遠還有很多很多的農地在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
287.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
316.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們沒有要求這個農地一定要增編保留地沒有我們只是要求我們自己的祖先留下來的土地而且已經是在堤防堤防內堤防跟部落之間的土地水利署很堅持而且不是未來治理首席不是未來治理,堤防就有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
318.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
345.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
然後又用什麼呢?我們要放消波塊消波塊放的地方已經過多了還要去增那麼一點點的土地所以這個部分另外在瑞穗也是一樣瑞穗、北岡大橋提防部長你看看右邊的提防 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
347.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
371.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
提防都有了．左邊的土地．也弄了很多要蓋消波塊．放消波．也放了．竟然．我們的土地．全部被劃為．河川七一線之內．有提防喔．組長．部長．這個部分． |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
376.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
376.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
405.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
425.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那委員你剛剛講的這個部分我們都會貫徹跟履行那至於你剛剛所提兩個個案我們也知道氣候變遷對於河道的這個治理的這個需求的部分我們不需要以河增地但我們希望建立一個國土的韌性那完成治理你光看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
426.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
452.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員,我們台灣的河川平常沒有水喔,大雨來的時候,整個河川裡面都是水所以你現在看到北邊這個地方,有一些農耕的這個地方,在大雨來的時候,它可能是會...我完全不認同,我們的土地變成河流也沒有關係沒有關係啊,沒有關係啊,我們不會要求補償,也沒有規定要補償啊,不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
454.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
455.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你上次講說這個今年年底以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
483.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
483.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
499.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
520.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
委員,颱風這已經來了,我們需要相關的防洪設施,災害的安全,讓民眾在一個減災的社會可以安居樂業,這是我們努力的目標。主席,自己看這個圖,你放消波塊已經有提防了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
522.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
542.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個我們在全國各地都有一樣的一個做法。為什麼一定要在我們原住民已經在使用的土地裡面來放呢?這個沒有針對性,這是依照防救災的這個需求他去劃定的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
546.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
552.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
報告委員,我想這一部分我們帶回去再來討論,這是事實,所以我想我們可以檢討,謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.lineno |
809 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時32分）主席、各位委員，有請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請郭部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
郭部長智輝：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。本席再次請經濟部──尤其是水利署要依法行政…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
主席：請賴署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：依原住民族基本法第二十條規定，政府承認原住民族土地的權利，然後行政院核定的公有土地增編原住民保留地處理原則也規定得很清楚：「有下列情形之一者，該土地不得增編為原住民保留地」，就是有兩個條文，其中一個是土地法第十四條，但是土地法第十四條這個部分經過公產管理機關同意就可以；水利法第八十三條是不得私有，水利法第八十三條規定得很清楚，尋常洪水位行水區域之土地不得移轉為私有，我們絕對遵守這個法律。土地法第十四條規定的海岸一定限度內之土地，國產署全部都同意增劃編保留地了，唯獨所謂的可通運之水道及其沿岸一定限度內之土地。事實上，原住民現在尤其是一些個案都不是可通運之水道，根本就沒有辦法通運。內政部修正了「土地法第14條第1項各款規定不得私有土地劃定原則」，這裡面特別提到只要公產管理機關同意就可以。經濟部水利署106年也根據這個內政部的函釋、內政部所修正的處理原則，但是水利署多了一些附帶條件，就是水利法第八十三條所定的範圍，你們說因為你們沒有公告，沒有公告是你家的事情、是政府的事情啊！部長，是不是這樣？你沒有公告，然後你就要擴大，這是不對的，我們願意遵守水利法第八十三條啊！第二段是請各河川管理機關確依「未來治理所需之範圍」認定，很清楚喔！是「未來治理所需之範圍」，我們先退一步到這邊，後面是並依原基法辦理。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
我們來看這個圖，這是卑南溪，部長，你看一下，這條溪很清楚，我們的部落在最上方，我們的這個部落是石山部落，我跟部長講，這是非常可悲、可憐的部落，為什麼呢？這個部落本來在哪裡呢？是在現在的志航機場，本來在志航機場，為了要蓋志航機場，就搬到這裡，這本來就是我們的土地，就搬到這裡，把這麼漂亮的志航機場、這麼好的地方提供給國家，為了國防搬到這邊，這是我們自己的土地。我們看這條卑南溪，堤防蓋了，堤防在哪裡呢？我們來看一下，這條比較明顯的路是吉林路，在吉林路的下方那個白線的地方已經有堤防了，部長，已經有堤防，而且這個堤防距離這條溪非常的遠，非常非常的遠，還有很多很多的農地在那邊，我們沒有要求這個農地一定要增編保留地，沒有！我們只是要求我們自己的祖先留下來的土地，而且已經是在堤防內，就是堤防跟部落之間的土地，可是水利署很堅持，而且不是未來治理所需，因為堤防就已經有了啊！然後又用什麼理由呢？說因為要放消波塊，放消波塊的地方已經過多了，還要去爭那麼一點點的土地！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][2] |
另外，在瑞穗也是一樣，在瑞穗北岡大橋有堤防，部長，你看看右邊的堤防，堤防都有了，在左邊的土地也弄了很多要放消波塊，消波塊也放了，竟然我們的土地全部被劃為河川區域限制內，有堤防喔！署長、部長，這個部分裡面有多少的土地，這是祖先留下來的土地，我們也願意，你要求只能種植農作物、只能種多高，我們都同意，但是土地所有權要還給我們啊！這是行政院所核定的規定，而且是原住民族基本法所規定的，部長，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴署長建信：委員，你剛剛講的這個部分，我們都會貫徹跟履行，至於你剛剛所提的兩個個案，我們也知道因為氣候變遷對於河道治理的需求這個部分，我們不需要與河爭地，但是我們也希望建立一個國土的韌性，那完成治理…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，我們沒有與河爭地，你光看這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴署長建信：委員，我們臺灣的河川平常沒有水，在大雨來的時候，整個河川裡面都是水，所以你現在看到北邊有一些農耕的這個地方，在大雨來的時候，可能是會…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，我完全不認同，我們的土地變成河流也沒有關係，沒有關係啊！我們不會要求補償，也沒有規定要補償啊！不會！也沒有規定要賠償，不會！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴署長建信：那個是因為治理所需要，有防洪需要的部分，我們會依照水利法來做檢討。至於你剛剛講的兩個個案，對於河川區域所謂的勘定是不是可以再重新來做一個檢討，這個回歸到專家的論證，那我們在今年就已經開始啟動這個劃定的檢討作業。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你上次說在今年年底以前還是11月底以前，你上次是有這樣講嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴署長建信：年底。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：是什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴署長建信：年底。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那現在怎麼又一直放消波塊？在我們的土地又放消波塊？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴署長建信：委員，颱風就已經來了…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：消波塊已經很多了！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴署長建信：我們需要相關的防洪設施，避免災害危及安全，讓民眾可以在一個減災的社會中安居樂業，這是我們努力的目標。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，你自己看這個圖，你放消波塊，可是已經有堤防了，已經有堤防了！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴署長建信：這個我們在全國各地都有一樣的作法…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我知道，你們在別的地方都放，我們也都贊成啊！為什麼一定要在我們原住民已經在使用的土地裡面放呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴署長建信：這沒有針對性…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：很多地方…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴署長建信：都是依照防救災需求劃定的。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那是你們認定的！部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個部分我們帶回去再討論啦！這是事實嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
郭部長智輝：我想我們可以檢討啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
主席：請賴瑞隆委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
314 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
233 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139102 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139102_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、環境部首長就「我國
對設置 SRF 發電廠之規劃評估，及設置 SRF 發電廠對我國環境之影響」進行報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139102_00004 |
| IVOD_ID |
156302 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156302 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-30T11:32:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-30T11:41:27+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |