| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f41435e642c0a6829ddfc196978249b4d9daa8b56ea52cc4f720fe981f477cf9004cc94ee87db5845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:11:13 - 13:21:09 |
| 影片長度 |
596 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共6案。
二、邀請立法院秘書長列席就「『113年憲判字第9號判決』，國會行使職權之困境與未來」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席有請我們立法院的周秘書長來請周秘書長秘書長辛苦了喔這個今天當然主題都是在國會改革的事件案第9號的事件案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.285 |
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我請問你啊外界講說這次釋憲之後國會變成沒有牙齒的老虎這句話你同意不同意?國會的立法權當然就減弱了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.537 |
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68.733 |
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剪落很多對不對?如果我們講100分的話,我看剪80分有啊?剩20分?有嗎?差不多?可以嗎?剪落的不少。在地瓦權裡面...剪落百分之五十以上啦!對啦,你跟我講一個,我們比較...因為你是專家,你研究這麼多,你告訴我們剪落多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.303 |
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我只能這樣說是比原來民國87年我們在負責草擬的立法院的職權的行使的一些運作這一次把一些譬如說文件調閱啊或是97年的國情報告的一些職權大概都被萎縮掉你同意我剛剛提出來的嗎國會變成沒有牙齒的國會這句話我同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
102.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是監督的力道少了60%以上啦!這句話可以同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
呃 應該 應該從監督 國會監督的角度來看是確實相當 相當 相當 相當 少了六成以上了剩四成了齁 最多剩四成我們來看大法官自己了現在就是亂元大法官現在解釋出來社會必亂社會必亂請問你啊如果對法案 法律案大法官要把他拿掉可不可以直接說到違憲可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
153.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
立法委員職權刑事法是不是法律? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
是法律啊!他不喜歡他把他掐掉可以嗎?直接把他掐掉可以嗎?大法官可以嗎?這一次外界可能是認為這些就變成造法,代替立法院在進行造法的過程。他取代,他等於侵犯立法權啦!變成這時以來立法修法!我現在講的,立法委員職權刑事法第15條,15之4! |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
222.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
立法院裡面的第一款立法院與總統國情報告完畢好得就報告不明了處提出口頭或書面問題大法官現在解釋是什麼我們不可以問欸總統不可以答 不必答我們不能問我們拿A告欸這個法在這裡欸大法官就把這個掐死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
234.963 |
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255.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒有人沒有人請他解釋這一條他自己就跳進來把這一條這樣子把他刷掉了我這樣講對吧到目前為止對吧因為主席跟代委都在國大代表當時的情況是大概原來的條文啦原來李學章委員寫的原來在國大代裡面的嘛原來是國大代表的一個職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
262.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
285.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
國民大會廢掉以後我們主席也是當過一樣和我是同事了第三屆的過來代表之後把整個搬到立法院我們那時候都很清楚啊一次三個或者五個然後問題問完了然後李登輝前總統一次回答總而回答都這樣子啊統問統答都有這個東西啊結果大法官說沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
286.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以沒有了我現在講的大法官這個就是匪憲亂政他怎麼可以把我們的職權就把他拿掉呢這是第一個他違法亂政了真的亂政第二個賴清德總統有沒有吃立法院的豆腐啊馬上說我願意來了請問下期號 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
308.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
宣布了事後事件結果是10月25來 我們來看一下職權刑事法第15條第15支1條第一項第二款講很清楚總統是每年的3月1號以前來立法院沒有這個空間啦今年沒有啦今年Sayonara啦這個叫賴清德得了偏言賣乖整個大法官一面倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
340.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
368.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
大幅的限縮立法權無限擴張行政權讓我們變成個超級大總統讓我們變成走向皇帝制賴清德快變皇帝了他在那裡 吼 喬喀連吹咻啊他說我要來 我要來你怎麼來 3月以後就只有2月以後報告來3月以後 3月以後以前你要的話就是明年度啦不是今年度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
369.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
369.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他怎麼可以馬上來他沒有扣扳機了請問你如果總統要來立法院的話誰扣扳機第一個誰扣扳機 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
379.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
405.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為剛才立法院也特別一直質疑這一個條文啦15條之一它是有條件性的合憲那這現在的凍結等於在15條之二的原因是原來我上次還報告說立法院有決定權是因為這個法條立法院有決定權不過這次的憲法的這個裁判理會是兩照都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
407.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
是他講違憲還是你講違憲?憲法法庭講違憲嗎?憲法法庭也沒有講15條之四違憲結果他就把他掐死了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
432.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
447.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他沒有講15條之事喔他講違憲這個我們就沒你啊這個你就直接我們也沒有問他他直接就把你說我這個地方違憲所以這道保官這樣子一來啊這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
450.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
477.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如此一來就變成說立法院不可以問總統不必答以門來啦我們未來這一屆總統都不必來我們在這裡就可以正式宣布國民黨團的立場雖然我不是當編但是我們有共識然後沒來我們都反對因為他來就是做修養來講完了回去啊就他總統主開會講完就好了何必來立法院就是因為立法院這是一個法定的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
478.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
488.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他如果來的話創造憲政的歷史過去從陳水扁時代想來沒辦法來馬英九時代也沒辦法來蔡英文時代也沒辦法來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
490.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
514.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
但是賴清德如果要來,我們說這樣一句啦吼,不用,不用來,真的,不要這樣子,不需要,這個大法官結合總統,那個一起來欺負這個立法院,立法院已經被大法官掐得煙煙一熄,而且我們看到這大法官一解釋出來,最近解釋的都是完全是討好民進黨的一個核心思想,自作賤,自甘墮落變成民進黨的護水組織, |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
519.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
Face民眾八成以上反對他就實質Face然後這個地方把國會的權力全部把它掐掉掐掉六成以上升不到四成這是國家的悲哀我再強調一遍這是一個亂言最後一句我告訴各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
564.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
今年的7月29號美麗島定時報提到了相信大法官能夠獨立行使職權不受任何干預的相信36%不相信52%然後臺灣民力基金會將近五成的對大法官沒有信心這個都寫照啊大法官完全是活在一個奇怪的地方最後我要強調一個東西了我有強調一個東西了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
566.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
566.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
賴委員． |
| gazette.lineno |
1022 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（13時11分）謝謝主席。有請我們立法院的周秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請周秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
周秘書長萬來：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：秘書長，辛苦了。今天主題當然都是在國會改革的第9號釋憲案，我請問你，外界說這次釋憲之後，國會變成沒有牙齒的老虎，這句話你同意不同意？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
周秘書長萬來：國會的立法權當然就減弱了。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：減弱很多，對不對？如果我們講一百分的話，我看減八十分有，剩二十分，有沒有？差不多？可以嗎？同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
周秘書長萬來：減弱了不少。在立法權裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：減弱百分之五十以上啦！對吧？你跟我講一個，因為你是專家，你研究這麼多，你告訴我們減弱多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
周秘書長萬來：我只能這樣說，就是比原來民國87年我們在負責草擬立法院職權行使的一些運作，這一次譬如文件調閱，或是97年的國情報告的一些職權，大概都被萎縮掉。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：你同意我剛剛提出來的嗎？國會變成沒有牙齒的國會，這句話同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
周秘書長萬來：會比較沒辦法發揮。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：就接近沒有牙齒的國會，這樣同意嗎？如果講保守一點的話。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
周秘書長萬來：我只能說保留大概……以我自己當…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是監督的力道少了百分之六十以上啦！這句話可以同意吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
周秘書長萬來：從國會監督的角度來看確實是相當少…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：對嘛！少了六成以上了，剩四成，最多剩四成。我們來看大法官自己現在就是亂源，大法官只要解釋出來社會必亂！社會必亂！請問你，如果對法案、法律案，大法官要把它拿掉，可不可以直接說它違憲？可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
周秘書長萬來：因為這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：我就問你可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
周秘書長萬來：不是，違憲權不在立法院啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：我是說大法官。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
周秘書長萬來：因為他本身有權力做，現在從解釋變成用憲法訴訟法裁判，他是可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：你沒有回答我的問題，我現在告訴你，我要強調這一點。第一，立法委員職權行使法是不是法律？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
周秘書長萬來：是法律。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：是法律啊！他不喜歡它就把它掐掉，可以嗎？直接把它掐掉，可以嗎？大法官可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
周秘書長萬來：這也是外界可能認為這變成代替立法院在進行造法的過程。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：他取代……他等於侵犯立法權啦！變成自己來立法、修法，我現在講的立法委員職權行使法第十五條之四第一款：「立法委員於總統國情報告完畢後，得就報告不明瞭處，提出口頭或書面問題」大法官現在解釋是什麼？我們不可以問，總統不可以答、不必答，我們不能問，像啞巴一樣，這個法在這裡，但大法官就把這個掐死，沒有人請他解釋這一條，他自己就跳進來把這一條這樣刷掉了。我這樣講對吧？到目前為止對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
周秘書長萬來：因為主席跟賴委員都是國大代表，當時的情況是……大概原來的條文，因為是呂學樟委員寫的。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：原來是國大代表的一個職權，國民大會廢掉以後，我們主席和我是同事了，第三屆的國大代表，之後把整個搬到立法院，我們那時候都很清楚，一次三個或者五個，問題問完了，然後李登輝前總統一次回答，綜合回答，叫統問統答，都有這個東西，結果大法官說這些沒有了，我覺得大法官這就是毀憲亂政，他怎麼可以把我們的職權拿掉呢？這是第一個，他違法亂政。第二、賴清德總統吃立法院的豆腐，馬上說他願意來了，請問現在幾號？宣布釋憲結果是10月25日，我們看一下職權行使法第十五條之一第一項第二款講得很清楚，總統是每年的3月1號以前來立法院，今年沒有這個空間了，今年莎喲娜拉了，這叫賴清德得了便宜還賣乖，整個大法官一面倒，大幅的限縮立法權，無限擴張行政權，讓我們變成有一個超級大總統，讓我們走向皇帝制，賴清德快變皇帝了，他在那裡翹腳捻鬍鬚，他說他要來，怎麼來？3月1號，就只有2月1號報到以後，3月1號以前，要的話就是明年度了，不是今年度，他怎麼可以馬上來？他沒有扣扳機啦，請問你，如果總統要來立法院的話，第一個誰扣扳機？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
周秘書長萬來：因為剛才李委員也特別一直質疑這一個條文，第十五條之一是有條件性的合憲，現在的癥結點在第十五條之二，原因是我上次在報告時說，就是因為這個法條，立法院有決定權，不過這次的憲法裁判以後，兩造都是憲法的義務，那憲法的義務的話，第十五條之二的第一項又被解釋為違憲，那只有變成第十五條之二的第二項…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：是他講違憲還是你講違憲？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
周秘書長萬來：憲法法庭已經裁判了。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：憲法法庭講違憲嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
周秘書長萬來：那這樣就變成走入第十五條之二的第二項。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：憲法法庭也沒有講第十五條之四違憲，結果他就把它掐死了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
周秘書長萬來：法庭裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：他沒有講第十五條之四喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
周秘書長萬來：第十五條之四也是違憲。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：喔，他講違憲，這樣就不用玩了，我們也沒有問他，他直接就說這個地方違憲，所以大法官如此一來，就變成說立法院不可以問，總統不必答，他不用來啦，未來我們這一屆總統都不必來。我們在這裡就可以正式宣布國民黨團的立場，雖然我不是黨鞭，但是我們有共識，都不必來，我們都反對，因為他來就是作秀而已，講完了回去，他總統府開會，講完就好了，何必來立法院？就是因為立法院，是一個法定的基礎，他如果來的話，是創造憲政的歷史，過去從陳水扁時代想來沒辦法來，馬英九時代也沒辦法來，蔡英文時代也沒辦法來，但是賴清德如果要來，我們說這樣啦，一句啦，不用！不用來！真的，不要這樣子，不需要！這個大法官結合總統一起來欺負立法院，立法院已經被大法官掐得奄奄一息，而且我們看到大法官一解釋出來，最近的解釋都完全是討好民進黨的核心思想，自作賤，自甘墮落，變成民進黨的附隨組織，廢死，民眾八成以上反對，反對，他就實質廢死。然後這個地方把國會的權力全部把它掐掉，掐掉六成以上，剩不到四成，這是國家的悲哀。我再強調一遍，這是一個亂源。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][1] |
最後一句，我告訴各位，今年7月29日美麗島電子報提到，相信大法官能夠獨立行使職權，不受任何干預的，相信的有36%，不相信的有52%；台灣民意基金會的民調，將近五成對大法官沒有信心。這個都是寫照，大法官完全是活在一個奇怪的地方。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][2] |
最後我要強調一個東西，我想大法官頻頻出招，都做出忤逆民意的解釋的話，我們就來修公投法，用人民的力量來壓制大法官，否則大法官這個亂源永遠沒有辦法結束，他現在就是社會最大的亂源，像過街老鼠人人喊打，真的人人喊打，很悲哀！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
主席：謝謝賴士葆委員，謝謝周秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][1] |
接下來有請王鴻薇委員，王鴻薇、王委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][2] |
有請洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][3] |
有請葉元之委員，葉元之、葉元之委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][4] |
有請傅崐萁委員，傅崐萁、傅崐萁委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][5] |
所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。委員謝龍介、傅崐萁所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
116 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-36-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-28 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139102 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139102_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共6案；二、邀請立法院秘
書長列席就「『113年憲判字第9號判決』，國會行使職權之困境與未來」進行專題報告，並備質
詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139102_00001 |
| IVOD_ID |
156212 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156212 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-28T13:11:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-28T13:21:09+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |