| video_url |
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| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:39:11 - 12:47:32 |
| 影片長度 |
501 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【10月23日及24日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請交通部的部長以及臺鐵股份有限公司的杜董事長杜董事長兩位好第一個交通部在疫情的期間推廣的虛擬實境觀光海陸慢行這個計畫花了9000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.795 |
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這個就花了九千萬花了九千萬目前交通部認為這個效果好不好當時是因為疫情的過程這個我了解對就是因為疫情所以才用虛擬觀光嘛是啊沒有錯對那虛擬觀光效果好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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現在大家應該疫情過了大家都去現場不太會用虛擬的啦我指的是在那段時間當中的效果好不好花九千萬值不值得這個就是我問題的核心啊我知道這不是你任內發生的所以我沒有要甩鍋給你的意思啦部長不用太過緊張但我們花納稅人的錢做事情我們總是要實事求是嘛做不好 |
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77.845 |
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承認做不好我們檢討改進以後不要再犯這個是我覺得應該要有的基本態度沒錯所以在這個情況下我真的要拜託交通部就像我上一次質詢觀光署辦的那個活動一樣這太誇張了丟了九千萬下去丟了九千萬下去結果還是限制型招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.961 |
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132.519 |
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當得標的人是跟民進黨關係特別好的杜益謹你聽過吧杜益謹我聽過對嘛那大家就會開始質疑嘛是能力好還是關係好嘛但我覺得空泛的去質疑能力好還是關係好關係好沒有道理所以我們要看成效嘛來我給部長報告一下好請委員指教來海陸慢行啊是 |
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134.328 |
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說做了12支片子這個Youtube訂閱117個人部長你有沒有看到下面的關染次數有394次、148次、208次、76次、73次這個不是今天早上上片的兩年前上片的這個成效我如果用慘不忍睹來形容部長你同不同意 |
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162.202 |
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是,報告委員,我不曉得他這個除了YT上面上架之外有沒有在其他的平台,我不曉得還有,我等一下會馬上一個一個檢驗我們既然花了錢,花了9000萬有網站嘛,有YT嘛,有FB嘛,各個社群平台都上我是一個實事求是的人我們就一樣一樣來看嘛可能在其他的地方成效卓著也不一定 |
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191.337 |
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215.877 |
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但以YT來講我個人看的是上架兩年以後這個觀看次數幾十次到兩三百次我大概只有四個字形容慘不能賭錢不能這樣花這是我的立場然後他們說晚上他們說有一個網站有收羅各式各樣的人我先假設都沒有找人來灌 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
217.009 |
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245.792 |
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這個有一萬四千六百個用戶上線一萬四千六百個用戶平均每一個用戶體驗一次多少錢大概八千塊吧這個cost benefit我們花納稅的錢去推廣光光目的絕對正當絕對是好事啦但我只有質疑一件事啊錢是不是應該要這樣花第二個我要問的事情是委員會真的覺得很怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.775 |
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275.641 |
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就我們大家就實事求是把事情做好評估成效的時候也不要好像要遮醜我為什麼要遮醜媒體報導10月16號的報導去質疑這個花這九千萬到底是在幹嘛結果你知道嗎結果10月18號的時候臉書跟IG就關了這個臉書跟IG的所有權使用權應該是我們交通部的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
277.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
295.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這是我們花錢設的欸阿誰把他關阿部長可以回去瞭解一下好 這個我回去瞭解你回去瞭解一下是誰把他關阿好阿這個很怪嘛你派人家批評批評完了以後發現臉書有1064名追蹤IG有1249名粉絲比YT好一點阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
302.998 |
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330.781 |
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可是報告委員他們給我一個數據這個部分我還是要回去再查證他們說API的訪問次數達到6800多萬那網頁的瀏覽次數達到4億2000多萬這個數據我回去會再查證我今天提出來我覺得效應要好好的盯請你回去好好的查證因為你如果講的那個數字是真的10月16號這個媒體報導交通部叫大力駁斥善不假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
332.162 |
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350.618 |
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他上面寫的是一萬四千六百個用戶上線啊一萬四千六百個用戶上線搞虛擬觀光那我就會算啊除以九千萬大概平均一個用戶多少錢嘛是匯後的部分剛剛今天問到的問題沒有答案的匯後部長一個禮拜之內順便回覆可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
351.825 |
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369.259 |
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這個部分應該可以不好意思那個主席我可以借用一分鐘嗎很快請那個臺鐵局的不好意思臺鐵股份有限公司的董事長那個董事長我上次在關心那個平交道遮斷器的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
370.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
392.814 |
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這個事情很嚴重嘛牽涉到列車的安全行人的安全經過評價報的安全那我知道你很重視啊因為我知道董事長好像過去我質詢完了以後過去這幾天四個電務段的同仁都早來開會了嘛是是嗎是那你們開會檢討完以後現在的結論是什麼覺得很安全要繼續裝嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
394.764 |
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417.785 |
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跟委員報告齁那個我們也有陸續提供資料給委員齁包括我們上一次講兩週內要提沒有因為時間的關係所以就給我結論就是你開完會的結論是覺得這家公司做得很安全叫髒話的不要再抗拒了我們繼續裝嗎不是我們現在的做法就是因為我們有去檢視了齁該這家公司他發生的問題那個 |
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419.787 |
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446.195 |
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我們要求他改善的這個整個過程我們都有去檢視那現在的確他改善以後是收斂的收到很低所以這個部分我們會特別注意第二個我聽說你們還要再給這家公司另外開一個1.9億的標案讓他改善電源真的還假的啊因為我聽到的時候我很震驚啊我前面給你那麼多錢事情沒做好搞得不安全要延宕已經很誇張啦 |
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447.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
465.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
聽說那家公司獅子大開口啊說要再開個1.9億的特別標案給他們改善電源系統有沒有這件事跟委員報告齁如果有這個案子的話我們絕對公開招標所以你的意思是說有這個案子就對了是不是有這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
468.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
486.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有有有這個案子他如果是公開招標應該就不一定是原本的那個廠商吧就是搭配現有我們臺鐵的電源改善嘛跟那個機座改善該改善的改善該花的錢花該改善的改善該花的錢花但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
488.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
500.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
廠商拿了錢事情沒做好就要他做到好為止如果做不好該解約解約該請求賠償該請求賠償這件事情董事長可不可以承諾我是可以可以好謝謝 |
| gazette.lineno |
987 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（12時39分）謝謝主席！麻煩有請交通部部長以及臺鐵股份有限公司的杜董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們有請陳部長和杜董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
黃委員國昌：兩位好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳部長世凱：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
黃委員國昌：第一個要問的是交通部在疫情期間推廣虛擬實境觀光「海陸漫行」，這個計畫花了9,000萬元，這個就花了9,000萬元！目前交通部認為這個效果好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳部長世凱：當時是因為疫情的過程…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個我了解，就是因為疫情所以才用虛擬觀光嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳部長世凱：是啊，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
黃委員國昌：那虛擬觀光的效果好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳部長世凱：現在疫情過了，大家應該都去現場，不太會用虛擬的，所以目前…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
黃委員國昌：我指的是在那段時間當中的效果好不好，花了9,000萬元值不值得？這個就是我問題的核心。我知道這不是你任內發生的，所以我沒有要甩鍋給你的意思，部長不用太過緊張，但我們花納稅人的錢做事情，總是要實事求是嘛！做不好就承認做不好，我們檢討改進，以後不要再犯，這個是我覺得應該要有的基本態度，所以在這個情況下，我真的要拜託交通部，就像我上一次質詢觀光署辦的那個活動一樣，真是太誇張了！丟了9,000萬元下去，結果還是限制性招標，當得標的人是跟民進黨關係特別好的，杜奕瑾你們聽過吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳部長世凱：杜奕瑾有聽過。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
黃委員國昌：大家就會開始質疑是要能力好還是關係好，但我覺得空泛的去質疑能力好還是關係好沒有道理，所以我們要看成效。我跟部長報告一下，海陸漫行計畫說做了12支片子，YouTube訂閱數是117個人，部長有沒有看到下面的觀覽次數？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳部長世凱：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
黃委員國昌：分別是394次、148次、208次、76次、73次，這個不是今天早上上片的，是兩年前上片的，對這個成效我如果用「慘不忍睹」來形容，部長同不同意？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳部長世凱：報告委員，它這個除了YT上面上架之外是否也有在其他頻道上架我是不曉得啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃委員國昌：有，還有。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳部長世凱：如果有的話，要整個綜整起來看。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
黃委員國昌：我等一下會馬上一個一個檢驗，我們既然花了錢，花了9,000萬元，有網站嘛！有YT嘛！有FB嘛！各個社群平台都上，我是一個實事求是的人，我們就一樣一樣來看，可能在其他的地方成效卓著也不一定啦！但以YT來講，我個人看的是上架兩年以後的觀看次數，只有幾十次到兩、三百次，我大概只有四個字形容，就是慘不忍睹！錢不能這樣花，這是我的立場。然後呢，他們說有一個網站有收羅各式各樣的人，我先假設都沒有找人來灌，這個有14,600個用戶上線，平均每個用戶體驗一次多少錢？大概8,000塊吧，這個Cost/Benefit，我們花納稅人的錢去推廣觀光，目的絕對正當，絕對是好事，但我只有質疑一件事，錢是不是應該要這樣花？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳部長世凱：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
黃委員國昌：第二個我要問的事情是，我真的覺得很怪，我們大家就實事求是，把事情做好，評估成效的時候也不要好像要遮醜。我為什麼說遮醜？媒體10月16號的報導質疑花這個9,000萬元到底在幹嘛，結果你知道嗎？10月18號的時候，臉書跟IG就關了，這個臉書跟IG的所有權、使用權應該是我們交通部吧？這是我們花錢設的耶！誰把它關了啊？部長可不可以回去瞭解一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳部長世凱：好，我回去瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
黃委員國昌：你回去瞭解一下是誰把它關了。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳部長世凱：好啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個很怪吧！你被人家批評，批評完了以後發現臉書有1,064名追蹤、IG有1,249名粉絲，比YT好一點啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
陳部長世凱：可是報告委員，他們給我一個數據，這個部分我還是要回去再查證。他們說API的訪問次數達到六千八百多萬，網頁的瀏覽次數達到四億二千多萬，這個數據我回去會再查證，委員今天提出來，這個效益我們要好好的盯。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
黃委員國昌：請你回去好好的查證，因為如果你講的那個數字是真的，交通部就要大力駁斥10月16號這個媒體報導，散布假訊息啊！它上面寫的是1萬4,600個用戶上線，1萬4,600個用戶上線搞虛擬觀光那我就會算啦！除以9,000萬元，平均一個用戶大概多少錢。剛剛問到沒有答案的問題，會後請部長在一個禮拜之內以書面回復，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
陳部長世凱：這個部分應該可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
黃委員國昌：可以啦齁！不好意思，主席我可以借用一分鐘嗎？很快的請教臺鐵股份有限公司的杜董事長，我上次在關心平交道遮斷機的事情，這個事情很嚴重，牽涉到列車的安全、行人的安全、經過平交道的安全，我知道你很重視，因為在我質詢完了之後這幾天，你把4個電務段的同仁都找來開會了，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
杜董事長微：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
黃委員國昌：你們開會檢討完以後的結論是什麼？覺得很安全要繼續裝嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
杜董事長微：跟委員報告，我們也有陸續提供資料給委員，包括我們上一次講兩週內要提…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
黃委員國昌：因為時間的關係，你就給我結論，就是你開完會的結論是覺得這家公司做得很安全，叫彰化的不要再抗拒了，我們繼續裝嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
杜董事長微：不是，因為我們有去檢視這家公司它發生的問題，我們要求它改善的整個過程我們都有去檢視，現在它改善以後的確是收斂的，收到很低，所以這個部分我們會特別注意。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
黃委員國昌：第二個，我聽說你們還要再給這家公司另外開一個1.9億的標案，讓他改善電源，真的還假的？因為我聽到的時候很震驚，我前面給你那麼多錢，事情沒做好，搞得不安全又延宕，已經很誇張了，聽說那家公司又獅子大開口說要再開一個1.9億的特別標案給他們改善電源系統，有沒有這件事？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
杜董事長微：跟委員報告，如果有這個案子的話，我們絕對公開招標。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以你的意思是說有這個案子就對了，是不是有這個案子？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
杜董事長微：有這個案子。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳部長世凱：如果是公開招標，應該就不一定是原本的那個廠商。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
杜董事長微：就是搭配現有我們臺鐵的電源改善跟機座改善，我們不會特別……。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
黃委員國昌：該改善的改善，該花的錢花，但是廠商拿了錢，事情沒做好，就要他做到好為止，如果做不好，該解約解約，該請求賠償要請求賠償，這件事情董事長可不可以承諾我？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
杜董事長微：是，可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
主席：謝謝黃委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][1] |
接下來有請伍麗華委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
288 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-23-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
197 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139001_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進
服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報
告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質
詢；三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報
作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139001_00004 |
| IVOD_ID |
156006 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156006 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-7 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-23T12:39:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-23T12:47:32+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |