| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f30dcf391021d6317a99cc8813c7762d7b602dab1c650f9c1e35a7196978f1fa5ef969bfb1957e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:15 - 10:40:56 |
| 影片長度 |
581 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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執行結束之後我們休息五分鐘下一位執行請鄭天才委員主席各位委員兩位次長請兩位次長兩位次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.975 |
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委員長好 這個《氣候變遷因應法》第28條第一項規定中央主管機關為達成國家溫室氣體長期減量目標及各期階段管制目標得分階段對下一排放溫室氣體之排放鹽徵收碳費 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
72.612 |
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第一款直接排放鹽第二款間接排放鹽請問一下我們環境部這一次徵收的部分是直接排放鹽有沒有包含間接排放鹽 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
76.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就 «我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府財政部首長、環境部首長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
按照你們的估算每年預計將有60億元的碳費收入60億其實不多了其實不多如果我們看全球主要碳排放教育的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個七四圖如果從2008年到2023年的2月如果我們看這個七四圖我們大概在哪個價位? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
130.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
按照這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
當這個燃燒化石燃料是氣候變遷化的主要氣動因素占所有二氧化碳排放量的89%和所有溫室氣體排放量的68%所以這個部分是一個參考的一個很重要的一個資料那我們看這個你的報告裡面環境部的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
特別提到．日本及韓國的平均化石燃料稅．含製造業在內的所有部門平均．分別為美工盾、二氧化碳．當量新台幣88及962元． |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我國平均化石燃料稅如採這個OECD的定義進行計算．為每公噸二氧化碳當量的331元．以顯著低於日本及韓國．所以這個基本上如果我們從這樣的一個．環境部經過審議這個會議．然後所徵收的這個一年． |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們明年的排放量開始收費後年開始繳費對,後年才收了所以又慢了兩年了所以這個部分這個未來這個整個在審議的過程真的是不高重點是說在後面契約變遷運營法第33條訂了這個碳費 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就:「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助規劃。」進行報告．及政府協助規劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
326.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
353.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那這個錢到底應該要發給誰?就算是給了縣市,縣市要給誰?所以這個部分,這個環境部啊,非常非常的重要,必須要去討回因應,不然的話又成為一個一個,是不是真正達到了這個, |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
356.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
382.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
氣候變遷因應法當初增加這些條文的目的這個很重要所以這個部分我們看著2020年森林貢獻的溫室氣體移除量為2190.5公噸二氧化碳當量也可抵減全國碳排放量的7.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
385.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
410.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個是根據台灣2022年發布的國家溫室氣體排放清澈的報告不是我自己寫的這個是這個報告所提出來的所以這個部分就是環境部啊因為你訂的不是那麼明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
412.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
432.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
怎麼樣再去給地方政府的時候或是你自己要留存的部分要怎麼去運用實際上應該要發給的部分你們現在有一個方向嗎?跟委員報告因為剛剛委員有把那個氣候法第33條的這個13款 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
438.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
460.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
466.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
再來就是公正轉型,如果說是以碳會來講,因為比如說碳會,我們現在有一些關於自然碳會的減量方法論在申請審議當中,如果一旦通過,其實碳會我們也會鼓勵企業有方法論可以來申請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
477.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
479.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
499.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
518.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那增加碳會的功能其實就是減量的活動的一項那因此呢如果這個有一些增加碳會功能比如說縣市政府或者是我們中央的這個相關部會有在增加碳會的這個工作上面我們碳費也應該是往那個方向來補助好,非常謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
521.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
538.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
上次我也提過這個資料2001年英國的生態經濟協博士皮爾斯說一個岩石嶺的碳匯價值一公頃兩千美金這是2001年現在已經2024了到後年是2026了所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
545.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
565.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就回歸到法律好了,回歸到法律。一、第一條,很快,第一條,7號邊境議法,第一條。第三條,原住民族穩定轉型。謝謝。第五條,原住民族權益,法律隊有規定,合作依法行政。第五條, |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
567.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
嚴祝民主共同推動這個自然碳會。好,謝謝。所以這個部分,請環境部務必依法行政。好,謝謝。來,謝謝鄭天才委員。來,次長請回座。 |
| gazette.lineno |
483 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時31分）主席、各位委員。請兩位次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請兩位次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：兩位次長好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
連次長錦漳：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
施次長文真：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：氣候變遷因應法第二十八條第一項規定，中央主管機關為達成國家溫室氣體長期減量目標及各期階段管制目標，得分階段對下列排放溫室氣體之排放源徵收碳費：第一款、直接排放源。第二款、間接排放源。請問環境部，這一次徵收的部分是直接排放源，有沒有包含間接排放源？還是都有？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
施次長文真：都有，就是針對這281間公司的直接排放跟間接排放都會徵收。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：徵收的費率你們定了，也做了審議…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
施次長文真：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：按照你們的估算，每年預計將有60億元的碳費收入。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
施次長文真：對，這個是預計。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：60億其實不多，如果我們看全球主要碳排放交易的價格趨勢圖，從2008年到2023年2月，我們大概在哪一個價位？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
施次長文真：其實就委員的這個圖可以看出來，大家初期的價格都是先從低到高，所以我們的初期價格，為了把資金留給收費對象來減量，所以我們現在初期價格大概也差不多是比較低的那個level。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，按照這個表，燃燒化石燃料是氣候變遷化的主要驅動因素，占所有二氧化碳排放量的89%，和所有溫室氣體排放量的68%，所以這個部分是一個很重要的參考資料。環境部的報告裡特別提到，日本及韓國的平均化石燃料稅，含製造業在內的所有部門平均，分別為每公噸二氧化碳當量新臺幣881元及962元，我國平均化石燃料稅如採OECD的定義進行計算，約為每公噸二氧化碳當量331元，已顯著低於日本及韓國。基本上，如果我們環境部經過審議會議所徵收的是一年60億，其實真的不多啦！我們已經比日本、韓國慢了對不對？然後又比歐盟更晚，晚多少年？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
施次長文真：歐盟是2005年開始有總量管制跟交易。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：從2005年開始，現在已經是2024年，然後我們要徵收是什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
施次長文真：我們明年的排放量開始收費，後年開始繳費。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：後年才收，所以又慢了兩年，這個部分未來真的是不高，重點是氣候變遷因應法第三十三條訂了碳費，你收了碳費。另外還有碳匯，這兩個不一樣。依照氣候變遷因應法第三十三條，有關基金的用途，當然現在各縣市都有很多意見，我們都必須要尊重，這個錢到底應該發給誰？就算是給了縣市，縣市要給誰？這個部分對環境部而言非常非常重要，必須妥為因應，不然的話，就又成為一個問題，是不是真正達到氣候變遷因應法當初增加這些條文的目的，這個很重要。我們看到2020年森林貢獻的溫室氣體移除量為2,190.5萬公噸，二氧化碳當量約可抵減全國碳排放量的7.6%，這個是根據臺灣2022年發布的國家溫室氣體排放清冊報告，不是我自己寫的，這個是這份報告所提出來的。就這部分來講，因為環境部訂得不是那麼明確，怎麼樣再去給地方政府，或者是你自己要留存的部分要怎麼去運用，實際上應該要發給的部分，你們現在有一個方向嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
施次長文真：跟委員報告，因為剛剛委員有把氣候法第三十三條十三款關於溫管基金（就是碳費收入）的用途項目列出來，所以我們目前最主要的規劃有三大面向，第一個就是協助中央跟地方縣市政府去執行減量計畫，或者是獎勵補助減量技術。第二個就是有一些調適措施或調適工作，這也是中央跟地方一起來做。再來就是公正轉型，如果是以碳匯來講，因為我們現在有一些關於自然碳匯的減量方法論在申請審議當中，一旦通過的話，其實碳匯我們也會鼓勵企業有方法論可以來申請自願減量計畫，取得的碳權一定要跟碳匯所在地的原住民分享，所以我們先用這個方式，這是第一個跟委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][1] |
第二個就是有一些碳費的收入，其實碳費收入也很難發給個人，但是剛剛有提到的減量，增加碳匯的功能其實就是減量活動的一項，因此如果有一些增加碳匯功能，比如縣市政府或者是中央相關部會有在增加碳匯的工作上面，我們碳費也應該是往那個方向來補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，非常謝謝。上次我也提過這個資料，2001年英國的生態經濟學博士評論說一個原始林的碳匯價值一公頃2,000美金，這是2001年的評論，現在已經是2024年，到後年是2026年。這個部分就回歸到法律好了，依氣候變遷因應法第一條，第三條是原住民族穩定轉型，第五條是原住民族權益，法律都有規定，所以都要依法行政，第五條是原住民族共同推動自然碳匯，這個部分請環境部務必依法行政，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭天財委員，次長請回座。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
52 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138702 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138702_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企
業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就
「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138702_00001 |
| IVOD_ID |
155933 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155933 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-7 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-23T10:31:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-23T10:40:56+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |