| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e70ac4aba65812f071b5c49f053b2913d42df3203622d4e3398f8787296810fcf2e44bbea44e61d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:55:40 - 12:09:09 |
| 影片長度 |
809 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查「財政收支劃分法」20案：
(一) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。
(二) 本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人、委員丁學忠等17人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等6案。
(三) 本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 本院委員黃健豪等21人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
(七) 本院委員陳超明等17人、委員邱鎮軍等19人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。
(八) 本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。
(九) 本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。
(十) 本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。
(十一) 本院委員張嘉郡等27人擬具「財政收支劃分法第四條、第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案。
(十二) 本院委員楊瓊瓔等32人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
(十三) 本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「財政收支劃分法增訂第三十條之一及第三十條之二條文草案」案。
二、審查「財政收支劃分法」2案：
(一) 本院委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」案。
(二) 本院委員鄭正鈐等21人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。
【21日廣泛討論，10月21日、23日及24日三天一次會】） |
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還有COVID-19是舉債發行的大家要了解一下不要說錯謝謝主席一級各位先進有請財政部的阮次長以及主記長請我們阮次長跟陳主記長委員好 |
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在講之前 我要聲援一下主席這個執政委員不能夠對主席這樣子霸凌這個主席對你們有夠好讓你們一直講話、一直講話、一直講話不要這樣子啦不要這樣子啦 你去看其他的你們時間暫停了 這個程序用底時間暫停時間暫停 我都讓大家暢所欲言 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
86.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
沒有給一些正確的資訊啦齁我怕這位大眾得到錯誤的資訊,後面那些人是舉債的齁六件毒品騎死贏人啦齁,好了,好了好好尊重一下賴委員的發言每個人要發言可以再繼續登記齁我是有感的齁,我到其他委員會民進黨的委員當招委的時候時間一到不給你多講10秒鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
88.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
109.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
10秒不給多講!很清楚的!這樣大消息!然後我們成立政黨一直講!剛才財議一直講一直講!一直講給他一直講說沒關係!這樣的主席還欺負他!莫名其妙!好了!好了!下班!大家請坐下齁!門好了!請便便! |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
118.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
今天沒有要質詢!今天當然要主帖!今天沒有要主帖!不要那麼緊張啦!不表現啦齁!來!出場! |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你們現在啊!啊!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一等!等一 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
180.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
修了五次啦!民進黨的委員提了幾個版本就是現在盡力要省的民進黨中央委員也提版本N個、N個加一、N個加二、N個加三大家都跟我們要修啊!為什麼左農派說啊!這邊五個站不要修了因為賴清德想要到皇帝 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
把地方政委都當作乞丐跟他分級啊來 我們就看第一張我們就先要自己分分的結果是什麼來 剪掉第二張分的結果是什麼下一張來 分的結果是什麼分的結果就是綠、大、藍、小、小、橫、大第一名我們統統被說管家 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
212.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
補助款一般補助跟專案補助排列是第一名佔他的支出68%第二名高雄市佔63%比較略多第三名新北市52% |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
261.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第四名,台中市52%過來第一名,桃園市最後一名,台北市啊!大家記得看什麼騰磋紅杯睡魂?這個資料都你們的?好,不用緊盯,就是你們不要分配!怎麼分配?財政部大小眼,主計總組大小眼給台南第一名,給高雄第一名台北市最後一名,就是你們分的結果!就是你們分的結果! |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是你們分的結果!這樣結果老百姓能夠接受嗎?其他的六都啊!台南市就是空氣的空氣咩!台南市就是空氣的空氣咩!尤其現在耐心的要當總統了!已經當總統了! |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
306.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
結果 排位分得更多來 回到第一張分的結果就是高雄市拿1,229億台北市拿861億差370億啊你們分的結果就這樣子啊你們分的分 打個肉極喔 打個肉極喔結果呢結果呢就是道地的大蝦園毒貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
309.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
322.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
民眾黨執政的縣市、六都裡面的兩都、台南市、高雄市、把台北市踩的地地的,這個就是你們自己分的結果。來!市長能夠講這個嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
325.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
350.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席怎麼賣得下你啊?委員長我講一下啊!這個結果是你們分的啊!你看哪一站讀哪一站你們分的結果啊!分給我講一下給我聽啊!這個部分是包括一般性的補助?對!全部加起來!統籌!加一般、加庄案!全部加起來!沒錯!是!那統籌的部分就是按比率嘛!那計劃...對!我的問題是加起來!來回到剛剛那一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
352.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
374.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我就是要跟你講加起來的啊!統統交補助收入啊!中央裕助啊!但是我跟報告委員我這裡的資料是台北市是1043.3億高雄市是1066.5億現在講的是114,你講113啊!我們看再下一張這是114的啦來來來我們來看113多少你說多少?台北市多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
382.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
396.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
一百一十三的部﹑臺北市多少?你講?臺北市多少?你講?九百二十二八百四十一個就給你們資料啊!吃辣辣人主計總署把這東西列資料勒!拜託!這是法定決算的勒! |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
398.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你們看得到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
400.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、台北市最少一名、 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
426.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後呢台南市都是第一名啊這就是你們分的結果啊你們分的結果組聚總組結果就是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
431.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這是你公佈的資料! |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你公佈了16號,你公佈之後,來,再回頭上一張。我就跟你講,你這幾年蔡英文民進黨執政以後,這個比例第一名就是台南市,第二名就是高雄市,都沒變了,都沒變,這個排名都沒有變。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
502.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
怎麼會讓人家服氣呢?你們自己分就按顏色來分!因為你們執政你們分得多一點!這樣而已啊!啊不是你們!你們執政你們生意要走!啊就是這樣!怎麼分?就這樣分了!再下一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
512.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個很清楚看得到嗎?你們分的結果就是用政治利害分法這個老實講 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
514.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
526.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我很不喜歡把財要挖遍政治性的法案它是到底的極力受傷在講錢講話我不要跟我講這一個故事我覺得你為什麼出來幾年來從111年到現在台北市都最後一名你就問我回答這個問題啊問你這個你不要給我講其他的最後一名啊!不管最後一名是什麼六都、六都最後一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
544.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
六度最後一名六度最後一名啦我們比較六度不要講其他縣市啦你不要講金額我講比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
556.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
571.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是你給他的錢占他支出的比例台北市114人比高雄市少了370億這個數字是你們公佈的數字啊主計中處主計中處因為它是有包括統籌分配對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對!對! |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
599.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
統統備稅款加一般補助加專案補助三個加起來不管有多少錢站台支出的比例這個很重要我們看待的台北市你看114人36%而已111人37%112人 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
607.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
608.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
47%113年43%114年42%就是你補充的錢佔他的支出比42% |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
621.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
630.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
就是政壇民眾黨團、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員林思銘等22人、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
651.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
669.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你不要講金的,我講比例啊,聽不懂你金因為它的Mass大啊它的支出大啊,台北市的支出大啊對不對,它的支出2000多億,新北市支出也大當然你給它全部加起來就多,但是我說比例比例比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
670.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
673.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個組計長都假裝不懂,其實你都很清楚啊所以你什麼公式?你什麼公式?你有什麼公式?你有什麼公式?有嗎?有嗎?請問有公式嗎?那個不是公式啦,那只是原則啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
690.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
696.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
土地占20%、人口占20%、整個營業稅占50%、其他的財政支出占50%這個教科書不要講這個啦!不要講這個! |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
706.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
724.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不是,但是我就要問你結果那個是原則而已啊結果結果從114年到現在台北市你們的補助包括同種分稅款包括一般補助包括計劃補助全部加起來台北市都輸了一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
726.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
741.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
臺南市就是第一名,高雄市就是第二名。這些東西就是很清楚你們自己分的結果就是大消炎了。對不對?哦,這樣,台南、高雄就是你們的兒子,其他都是小小的兒子,就變成這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
742.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
771.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
都這樣欺負非執政黨執政的一般計劃性補助他是按根本沒有回到問題啊我問你為什麼這樣結果結果是這樣這是你的數字啊主計中處的數字我就問你為什麼這樣你不要跟我講計劃講些五十三個都沒有回到問題啊他根據第一個根據每個縣市的一個財政狀況你們不能承諾民進黨台北市不會最後一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
772.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
792.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
可以承諾嗎?不是,這是整個按照原則還包括它計劃型,因為...所以!草案要分,要重新修嘛!你們權力太大了啊!你們再把錢都坐在手上其他的縣市要錢,包括六都都跟你們像乞丐一樣跟你們要,這個不是民主常態啦!我要講,卓榮泰你錯了啦!你們就跟著錯了!謝謝! |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
803.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
803.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝賴委員 |
| gazette.lineno |
551 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時55分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請財政部阮次長以及主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請阮次長及陳主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
阮次長清華：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：在講之前，我要聲援一下主席，執政黨的委員不能夠對主席這樣子霸凌啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
李委員坤城：哪有霸凌！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：主席對你們有夠好，讓你們一直講話、一直講話、一直講話，不要這樣子啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
李委員坤城：是主席霸凌委員耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：不要這樣子啦！你去看其他的……時間暫停，這個是程序問題，時間暫停。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
主席：時間暫停一下。我都讓大家暢所欲言啦！沒有給一些正確的資訊，我怕社會大眾得到錯誤資訊，COVID-19相關預算是舉債的。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：路見不平，氣死閒人啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
蔡委員易餘：大家有麥克風耶！說什麼霸凌…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
主席：好，尊重一下賴委員的發言，每個人要發言可以再繼續登記。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：我是有感而發，我到其他委員會，民進黨委員當召委的時候，時間一到，不給我多講10秒鐘，10秒都不可以多講，很清楚的，這樣大小眼，而我們陳玉珍讓你一直講，剛才蔡易餘也一直講、一直講、一直講，給他一直講都沒關係，主席都這樣子了還欺負他，莫名其妙！好了，shut up！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
主席：大家請坐下。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：好了、好了，不用鬧了，今天沒有要質詢…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
主席：好，大家尊重發言的委員，請坐下。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天沒有要逐條，好了、好了，時間開始。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
主席：我會讓你們講，好，繼續問吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：時間開始了。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：繼續問，來，繼續問。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
蔡委員易餘：大家有麥克風，說什麼霸凌…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
主席：來、來、來，蔡委員，會讓你有第二輪、第三輪，你坐下來。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天沒有要逐條，不要那麼緊張啦！不用表現啦！次長，你們現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員惠員：…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：好了，「惦惦、惦惦」，我在講話，你「惦惦」！我講話，你「惦惦」！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
兩位長官，你們現在就跟著卓榮泰的一聲令下，認為這個東西現在的公式有夠讚，不能去修，我們看看過去十幾年，修了5次啦！民進黨的委員提了幾個版本，就是現在今天要審的，民進黨有多少委員提版本？N個，N個加1、N個加2、N個加3，大家都認為要修啊！為什麼卓榮泰說現在有夠讚，不要修了？因為賴清德想要當皇帝，把地方政府都當作像乞丐來討錢一樣啊！來，我們就看第一張簡報，你們到現在都自己來分，分的結果是什麼？分的結果就是綠大、藍小，小很多。統籌分配稅款加補助款（一般補助跟專案補助），臺南市第一名啊！占它的支出68%；第二名高雄市，占63%；我是比較六都，第三名新北市，52%；第四名臺中市，52%；再過來第五名桃園市；最後一名臺北市啊！大家就要看統籌分配稅款，這個資料都你們的，不用緊張，就是你們這樣分配，怎麼分配？財政部大小眼、主計總處大小眼，給臺南第一名，給高雄第二名，臺北市最後一名，這就是你們分配的結果，這樣的結果老百姓能夠接受嗎？其他的六都，臺南市就是鑲金包銀，高雄市也是鑲金包銀，尤其現在賴清德當總統了，已經當總統了，結果臺南分得更多。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][2] |
來，我們回到第一張簡報，分的結果就是高雄市拿1,229億，臺北市拿861億，差了370億，你們分的結果就是這樣子。你們說大家都有錢、大家都有錢，以結果論，就是道地的大小眼，獨厚民進黨執政的縣市，六都裡面的兩都──臺南市、高雄市，把臺北市踩得低低的，這就是你們自己分的結果。來，次長要說一下嗎？主計長也可以，兩位長官講一下，這個結果是你們分的啊，你說有多好又有多好，這是你們分的結果啊！分別講一下給我聽啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分是包括一般性的補助…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，全部加起來。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：包括計畫型的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：統籌加一般、加專案，全部加起來，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：就這樣子啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：統籌的部分就是按比率，另外…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：我的問題是加起來，我就是要跟你講加起來的，統籌加補助收入，中央挹注啊，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：但是，報告委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：簡報資料中的B加C啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我這裡的資料，臺北市是1,043.3億，高雄市是1,066.5億。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：我現在講的是114年，你講113的，我們再看下一張。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這是114的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：來，我們來看，113年你說多少？臺北市多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：113年的部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：臺北市多少，你講！840億啊，這都是你的資料，資料來源是主計總處，這些都是你的資料，拜託！這是法定決算耶！對不對？你看就知道了，臺北市最後一名，每次都最後一名，每年都最後一名，欺負臺北市，莫甚於此啊！每年都最後一名，你看，從110年都是你們執政、民進黨執政，111年、112年、113年臺北市都是第六名，六都裡面第六名，然後臺南市都是第一名，這就是主計總處分的結果。結果就是這樣啊！對不對？這是你的資料啊，資料來源是主計總處，拜託！都沒在做功課。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：主計總處啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們的部分，臺北市113年度是922.4。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：奇怪，你公布的啊，怎麼都不對？你那個資料…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：高雄市是887…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：你的資料怎麼來的？你公布的，這是你對外公布的資料，拜託！這是你公布的資料喔！來，再回到上一張，我就跟你講，這幾年蔡英文、民進黨執政以後，這個比例第一名就是臺南市，第二名就是高雄市，都沒有變耶！這個排名都沒有變，怎麼會讓大家服氣呢？你們自己分就按顏色來分，因為你們執政，你們分得多一點，如此而已，不是你們執政的，就是「細姨仔囝」，就拿比較少，就是這樣。怎麼分？就這樣分啊！這個很清楚看得到，你們分的結果就是用政治力來分，這個老實講，我很不希望把財劃法變政治性的法案，它是道地的錢債相殺…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，它這個部分，像一般縣市補助的部分，主要是針對它第一個財政差短，第二個…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不要跟我講這些用詞，我就問你為什麼這幾年來，從111年到現在臺北市都最後一名？就回答我這個問題。我問你這個，你不要跟我講其他的。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：臺北市也沒有最後一名，是…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：最後一名啊！不然最後一名是誰？六都最後一名！我們比較六都，不要講其他縣市。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：桃園比較少一點啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不要講金額，我是講「比例」，就是你給它的錢占它支出的比例，臺北市114年比高雄市少了370億，這個數字是你們公布的數字，主計總處、主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：因為它是有包括統籌分配…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：有啦，我算起來…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：有包括在內…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：因為一般縣市會依照人口…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：還有土地面積去算。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：你沒有回答我的問題，我就跟你講，統籌分配稅款加一般性補助、加專案補助，三個加起來，不管有多少錢，占它支出的比例，這個很重要。你看，臺北市110年36%而已，111年37%，112年百分之四十幾，113年43%，114年42%，你補助的錢占它的支出就是42%，臺北市就是這樣啊，這個很明顯。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：委員，它本身就會分，因為計畫型補助是在部會裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：我在跟你講這個，你不要雞同鴨講啦！我問一下次長，次長，你回答一下為什麼這樣分？為什麼大小眼？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
阮次長清華：基本上是這樣子的，因為計畫型的我們這邊沒有資料，但是如果是一般性補助款還有統籌分配稅款，目前分配最多的還是臺北市，它114年度的預算是849億，是六都裡面最高的，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不要講金額，我是講「比例」，你聽不懂？因為它的mass大，它的支出大，臺北市的支出大，對不對？它的支出是兩千多億，新北市支出也大，當然，你給它的全部加起來是多，但是我說的是「比例」，這個主計長假裝不懂，其實你都很清楚啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
阮次長清華：跟委員報告，基本上，這都是按照公式分配的。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼公式？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
阮次長清華：我們沒有辦法…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼公式？你用什麼公式？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
阮次長清華：統籌分配稅款就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：你用什麼公式？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
阮次長清華：統籌分配稅款的公式。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
阮次長清華：就是按照土地面積…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：有嗎？請問你，有公式嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
阮次長清華：有啊，土地面積還有…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個不是公式，只是原則啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
阮次長清華：沒有、沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：土地占20%、人口占20%、整個營業稅占50%、其他的財政支出占10%，這個是教科書，不要講這個啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
阮次長清華：這是按公式來分配，所以我們是沒有辦法去動它的。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是我要問你結果，那個是原則而已啊！結果！結果！從110年到現在，你們給臺北市的補助，包括統籌分配稅款、一般性補助、計畫型補助，全部加起來，臺北市都是最後一名，臺南市都是第一名，高雄市都是第二名。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個東西就是很清楚，你們自己分的結果就是大小眼啦！對不對？臺南、高雄是你們的小孩，其他都是「細姨仔囝」，就變成這樣，都這樣欺負非執政黨執政的「都」。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：跟委員報告一下，一般計畫型補助，政府會依照…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：你講這個沒有回答我的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：會依照它的一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：我問你為什麼結果是這樣？這是你的數字啊！主計總處的數字，我就問你為什麼這樣，你不要跟我講計畫，講些五四三的，都沒有回答我問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：可是它是每一年都在變動的。第一個，根據每個縣市的財政狀況…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：你能不能承諾，明年度臺北市不會最後一名？可以承諾嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：不是，這是整個按照原則，還包括它是計畫型，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以財劃法要重新修嘛，你們權力太大了，你們都把錢抓在手上，其他的縣市要錢，包括六都，都像乞丐一樣跟你們要，這個不是民主常態啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：但是它有一定的換算標準。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：卓榮泰錯了，你們就跟著錯了，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
主席：謝謝賴委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][1] |
各位同仁，現在已經12點了，我們要不要休息，讓官員還有大家吃個飯？還是…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
郭委員國文：講到下一個啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
主席：還是你們要一邊吃一邊講也是可以，都可以啦！我尊重大家的意見，到郭國文委員，大家有沒有意見？郭國文委員講完以後，我們讓官員休息一下吃飯。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
郭委員國文：下一個就是我。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
主席：下一個還不是你，下一位是陳培瑜，你別急。你們要換也可以。郭委員講完我們就休息，讓大家吃飯，好嗎？好，你們兩位交換，來，要送單子。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
郭委員國文：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
主席：郭委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
陳委員培瑜：下午幾點開始？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
主席：休息的話，兩點半來，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
陳委員培瑜：兩點半？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
主席：對，好，郭委員講完就讓大家休息吃飯，讓官員休息吃飯再繼續。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
264 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-20-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
范雲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
151 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138601 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138601_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、繼續審查「財政收支劃分法」20案：(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草
案」案、(二)本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委
員洪孟楷等 22 人、委員丁學忠等 17 人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等 6 案、
(三)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」
案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員
黃健豪等21人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員王鴻薇
等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員陳
超明等17人、委員邱鎮軍等19人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條
文修正草案」等2案、(八)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分
法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案、(九)本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十
六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員賴士葆等22人擬
具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員張嘉郡等27人擬具「財
政收支劃分法第四條、第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院委員楊瓊瓔等32人擬具
「財政收支劃分法第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等
18人擬具「財政收支劃分法增訂第三十條之一及第三十條之二條文草案」案；二、審查「財政收
支劃分法」 2 案： ( 一 ) 本院委員羅廷瑋等 19 人擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」案、
(二)本院委員鄭正鈐等21人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138601_00004 |
| IVOD_ID |
155829 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155829 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-3 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-21T11:55:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-21T12:09:09+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |