| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c08b8ebdc8e306596d00555c993f4503464761d5dfc4adc96f892b6d7a78c0ae0b9b733f13866c75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:58:11 - 11:10:58 |
| 影片長度 |
767 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「第七波選擇性信用管制之配套措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【10月16日及17日二天一次會】） |
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王主席,最近辛苦了。我們中央銀行要做的事情你要對抗的,剛好是我們國內這最重要的兩大 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.955 |
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廣告供應者之一就是這些建商房地產業者那當然在我們祭出這第七波 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.891 |
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這個信用管制之後那他們相對的就做了很多反彈是利用他們在媒體的優勢是因為他們長期提供那麼大量的廣告從電視廣播網路這個平面媒體雜誌甚至報紙等等他們會製造一些錯誤的訊息假的新聞來騷擾那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.164 |
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這個都必須靠你們專業的一些堅持還有辦法繼續下去這個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.467 |
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最近這個審計部抽查那麼他針對我們從民國110年9月開始我們就有針對說購地貸款建商購地貸款那麼他必須在一定期間內我們是給他們18個月一定期間內要來動工 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.368 |
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128.14 |
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那麼他抽查的結果這兩家銀行我倒是很訝異他一家抽查說臺灣銀行跟土地銀行這兩家銀行臺灣銀行是還好喔他超過18個月沒有動工的這一個部分只佔他這個不動產借貸這一個部分的0.45%但是土地銀行竟然佔了5.11% |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.201 |
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147.36 |
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哇這一點齁這個而且土地銀行購地貸款18個月沒有動工的餘額增加了16%增加了16%所以我覺得在這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.908 |
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172.214 |
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既然我們有這個規定而且這一個規定是正確的就是說如果銀行把過多的融資金額給予建商讓他們去買地、養地、圈地那當然在地小人稠的我們台灣當然房地產 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
176.875 |
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竹地囊在這個部分我覺得也應該嚴格遵守所以那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.301 |
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總裁我們銀行法第130條違反中央銀行信用管制可以處新台幣一百萬到兩千萬元的罰款所以這個部分我想是不是應該去針對台銀欸針對土地銀行台銀還好啦台銀至少是個模範生土地銀行這個部分是不是應該去盯一盯他 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.197 |
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234.266 |
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好,我們這個委員的提醒齁,我們馬上來,我回去的時候齁,我們馬上來了解狀況還有以及啊,我們要做一些普查啦,比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.072 |
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260.866 |
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比方說現在這一兩年內我們銀行體系都有針對這些建商高負債率的我比方說有去年前年都有提出十大高負債比例的建商那個第一名第二名負債率都高達八成以上前十名最少68%我記得第十名68% |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.603 |
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那也就是說我們剛剛講的這一些利用財務槓桿高金額來借貸銀行現在這麼低的利率那麼他用來買地養地圈地所以這 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
281.084 |
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302.411 |
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我認為是不是央行應該出手要求這些銀行尤其借貸給這十大高負債建商而這十大高負債建商的公司如果你去詳閱他的財報內容他們都構置了很多閒置的土地他根本就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
303.511 |
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325.545 |
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買地養地圈地是非常清楚的所以我們沒辦法直接對建商怎麼樣可是中央銀行可以對這些銀行下手跟這些銀行講說站在社會公平正義居住正義的立場他們不應該去助紂為虐好不好這個部分你要跟他查查 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
349.525 |
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我非常佩服這個委員號你特別是你引用了這個央行法第38條這個央行法第38條在我們的這個道德說服那段時間我們的經檢處每一場他都參與而且我們也都跟我們的經檢處就像委員所說的我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
350.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
378.658 |
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要不定期的去了解他們是不是有遵守銀行法的規定還有遵守我們對他的道德說服這一點我跟委員報告真的我們中央銀行有在做檢討我們不但例行性的要做尤其現在我們既然祭出了這第七波這個現代令那土法不足以自行我們一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
一定要跟著這個去查查,然後跟著這個棒子就要來啦。要不然他當作螞蟻東風根本來個不甩。他尤其查查的我們就要連著因為這 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
399.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
413.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
幾年來我們政府一直在推動各企業往ESG之後那這個方向這是正確的環境國家的永續但是ESG在銀行的部分本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
財政部金管會是交由第一銀行說這個ESG去推動去怎麼樣落實結果第一銀行有製作了ESG的查核表格但是這個表格製作了交給各銀行去針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
435.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
來貸款的企業是不是ESG有達到尤其對建商啦建商ESG的責任特別重大不只他蓋的產品應該注重ESG過程裡面公安的問題等等以外因為建商貸款金額那麼大嘛他的責任當然更重結果有了這個表格 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
470.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是沒有實際去落實。表格填一填但是也沒有對違反這表格內容尤其對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
473.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
496.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
綠色的這個要求尤其對於公安的要求那有的公安連連失誤每年都在摔傷甚至不幸導致工人死亡的案例那麼多的公司越多違反ESG規定的公司貸款越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
513.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那連一個基本的處罰說把他要不然每個申請案降低他額度要不然把他提高他的貸款利率都沒有都沒有所以這個部分總裁我們只能委請中央銀行就是說這個部分因為你們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
514.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
534.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
銀行中的銀行是有你們下去管制這些銀行說你們有沒有去落實ESG是還有這個表格建制之後的要求是好不好好好謝謝謝謝我另外要提幾點就是說我簡單提一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
536.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
到底我們這一波信用管制是不是如坊間講的啦坊間講的很多我認為是假消息我認為比方說齁這個最近這一兩個月說央行打得太用力了啦患汙足哀嚎說小建商恐怕會倒閉這些很多是錯誤信息甚至背後 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
562.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
590.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是建商刻意在推動的假消息他藉由自入性的新聞藉由這樣子的方式在製作這樣子的假訊息那包括說這個購屋導致說現在消費者借不到房屋青年朋友要來自產借不到房屋貸款這些都鬼扯啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
590.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
604.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為這個是他們講的借不到的大部分都是囤屋族啦、小房客真的借不到的這個我們查了以後有的是因為中間的溝通不好比方說換屋 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
605.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
607.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我瞭解到的比較客觀的民調不動產仲介工會他的網路民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
632.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
646.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他說這一次打房有38.5%的民眾認為這個房價可能會下跌那時候一定會下跌的13.5%也就是說合計有超過50%超過一半52%的民眾認為這個會達到房價下跌所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
659.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
683.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
總裁這個方向是對的難得能夠來抑制這個狂飆的房價那當然啦這一波這個裡面還有一個結論是說有兩成的民眾說認為央行應該繼續在第八波信用管制那這個部分當然就是在研究啦在研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
684.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
702.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我覺得說有一些我們沒有讓消費者理解到的訊息那這個要加強宣達最後一點就是說竟然啦竟然有的銀行利用這一次青年朋友頭一次來購屋那他們就寄出說這個你要購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
703.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
703.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
是。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
724.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
743.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
完全不能也不應該有說要搭配購買金融消費商品購買保險才能夠貸款這一點要銀行一定要去落實好不好現在的銀行大部分都是金共公司嘛金共就什麼都有啊保險啦證券啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
745.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
746.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們暫時休息五分鐘。 |
| gazette.lineno |
702 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（10時58分）謝謝主席。請總裁。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請總裁。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
楊總裁金龍：王委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員世堅：總裁最近辛苦了。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
楊總裁金龍：謝謝，我真的非常謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：你要做的事、你要對抗的，剛好是我們國內最重要的兩大廣告供應者之一，就是這些建商，房地產業者。在祭出第七波信用管制之後，他們相對的就利用他們在媒體的優勢做了很多反彈！因為他們長期提供那麼大量的廣告，從電視、廣播、網路、平面媒體、雜誌，甚至報紙等等，製造一些錯誤的訊息、假新聞來騷擾。當然，這些都必須靠你們的專業與堅持才有辦法繼續下去這項政策…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：最近審計部針對建商購地貸款進行抽查。從民國110年9月開始就有規定建商購地貸款必須在一定期間內，我們給他們18個月時間，一定期間內要動工。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：抽查的結果，這兩家銀行我倒是很訝異，臺灣銀行跟土地銀行這兩家銀行，臺灣銀行是還好，它超過18個月沒有動工的部分只占它不動產借貸部分的0.45%，但是土地銀行竟然占了5.11%，而且土地銀行購地貸款18個月沒有動工的餘額增加了16%。所以我覺得在這個部分，既然我們有這個規定，而且這個規定是正確的，就是如果銀行把過多的融資金額給予建商，讓他們去買地、養地、圈地，在地小人稠的臺灣，當然房地產會漲價，而建商當然有他們一定的獲利需求，但是也不能到這種不擇手段的地步，所以土地銀行在這個部分我覺得也應該嚴格遵守。總裁，銀行法第一百三十條，違反中央銀行信用管制可以處新臺幣一百萬到兩千萬元的罰款，所以這個部分，我想是不是應該去針對臺銀、針對土地銀行，臺銀還好啦，臺銀至少是個模範生，有關土地銀行這個部分，是不是應該去盯一盯它？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
楊總裁金龍：好，委員的提醒，我回去的時候，我們馬上來了解狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員世堅：還有我們要做一些普查，比方說這一、兩年內我們銀行體系都有針對高負債率的這些建商，比方去年、前年都有提出十大高負債比率的建商，第一名、第二名負債率都高達八成以上，前十名最少68%，我記得第十名是68%。也就是說，我們剛剛講的，這一些利用財務槓桿，以高金額來借貸銀行現在這麼低的利率，用來買地、養地、圈地，所以我認為央行是不是應該出手要求這些銀行，尤其借貸給這十大高負債建商的，而這十大高負債建商的公司，如果你去詳閱它的財報內容，他們都購置了很多閒置的土地，根本就是買地、養地、圈地嘛，這非常清楚的。我們沒辦法直接對建商怎麼樣，可是中央銀行可以對這些銀行下手，跟這些銀行講說，站在社會公平正義、居住正義的立場，他們不應該去助紂為虐，好不好？這個部分你要去查察他們。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，我非常佩服委員，特別是你引用了央行法第三十八條，央行法第三十八條，在我們道德說服的那一段時間，我們金檢處每一場都參與，就像委員所說的，我們要不定期地去了解他們是不是有遵守銀行法的規定，還有遵守我們對它的道德說服，這一點我跟委員報告，真的我們中央銀行有在做檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員世堅：不但例行性的要做，尤其現在既然祭出了第七波的限貸令，徒法不足以自行…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員世堅：我們一定要跟著去查察，然後接著這個棒子就要來啦！要不然它當作馬耳東風，根本不甩。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王委員世堅：尤其查察了，我們就要連著……因為這幾年來我們政府一直在推動各企業往ESG這個方向，這是正確的，環境、國家的永續，但是ESG在銀行的部分，本來財政部、金管會是交由第一銀行，去推動ESG、怎麼樣去落實，第一銀行有製作了ESG的查核表格，這個表格製作了，交給各銀行去針對來貸款的企業，查核是不是有達到ESG，尤其對建商，建商ESG的責任特別重大，不只它蓋的產品應該注重ESG，還有過程中工安的問題等等，因為建商貸款金額那麼大，它的責任當然更重；結果有了這個表格，但是沒有實際去落實，表格填一填，但是也沒有對於違反表格內容的，尤其對於綠色的要求、尤其對於工安的要求，有的工安年年失誤，每年都在摔傷，甚至不幸導致工人死亡的案例，那麼多的公司，越違反ESG規定的公司貸款越高，連一個基本的處罰，比如降低它每個申請案的額度，或是提高它的貸款利率，都沒有、都沒有！所以這個部分，總裁，我們只能委請中央銀行，因為你們是銀行中的銀行，由你們下去管制這些銀行，看他們有沒有去落實ESG，還有這個表格建置之後的要求，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝委員的建議。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王委員世堅：我另外要提幾點，我簡單提一下，就是到底我們這一波信用管制是不是如坊間講的，坊間講了很多，我認為是假消息，比方最近這、一兩個月說央行打得太用力了啦，換屋族哀號，又說小建商恐怕會倒閉。這些很多是錯誤訊息，甚至背後是建商刻意在推動的假消息，它藉由置入性的新聞，藉由這樣的方式在製作假訊息，包括說購屋導致現在消費者借不到房屋貸款，青年朋友要來置產卻借不到房屋貸款，這些都鬼扯啦，因為他們講的借不到的大部分都是囤屋族、炒房客；真的借不到的，我們查了以後，有的是因為中間的溝通不好，比方說換屋，如果有切結的話沒有問題啊，新青安孝親房的部分也都有做了一些澄清，連繼承的部分，央行也都澄清、也放寬了，所以我覺得就是要堅定，不要受這些假訊息的影響。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][1] |
所以最後我要跟你報一個我瞭解到的比較客觀的民調，不動產仲介公會的網路民調顯示，這次打房有38.5%的民眾認為房價可能會下跌，而認為一定會下跌的有13.5%，也就是合計有超過50%、超過一半，也就是52%的民眾認為此次打炒房會達到房價下跌。所以總裁，這個方向是對的。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王委員世堅：難得能夠來抑制狂飆的房價。當然這裡面還有一個結論是有兩成的民眾認為央行應該繼續再做第八波信用管制，這個部分當然就是再研究啦，我覺得有一些沒有讓消費者理解到的訊息要加強宣導。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是，好。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
王委員世堅：最後一點就是，竟然有的銀行利用這次青年朋友頭一次來購屋，他們就祭出說你要購買金融相關的商品，比方說搭配保險、理財商品，要購買這些才能貸款！我覺得這個部分我們要特別要求銀行不要趁這一次上下其手，對青年朋友、對新購屋族造成困擾，完全不能也不應該說要搭配購買金融消費商品、購買保險才能夠貸款，這一點銀行一定要去落實，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
王委員世堅：現在的銀行大部分都是金控公司，金控就什麼都有，保險、證券、房貸什麼都有，混在一起了，那是不對的。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
王委員世堅：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
主席：謝謝，我們暫時休息5分鐘。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][1] |
休息（11時10分） |
| gazette.blocks[29][2] |
繼續開會（11時17分） |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
主席：好，我們繼續開會。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][1] |
接著請黃珊珊委員質詢，請黃珊珊委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
388 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-20-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
341 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-17 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138501_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並
備質詢；二、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「第七波選擇性信用管制之配套措施」進行專題報告，
並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138501_00005 |
| IVOD_ID |
155696 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155696 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-2 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-17T10:58:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-17T11:10:58+08:00 |
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ai-transcript |
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gazette |