| IVOD_ID |
155364 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155364 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-09T13:35:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-09T13:52:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f44693e142c0600a924ef967846ac90a119ae97120cdb860dad9963b523f8b14267846fbddf791135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
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976.84034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[366].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[366].start |
978.71346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[366].end |
980.97471875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
5.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
政府用錢不可以浪費公帑變預算不可以浪費公帑執行預算可不可以浪費公帑 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
可以嗎?也不能浪費公帑嗎?不能浪費公帑嗎?好,非常好。來,看一...咦,怎樣?不好意思。約定會前主委啊,花了145萬的公帑啊,出個人成果專刊啊。60頁,都是他個人活動的照片啊。這是一個浪費公帑啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
73.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
跟委員報告齁除了這些照片他還是有一些這個那個時候的一些成果我們你有看過內容嗎我有大概看過他裡面有成果的部分跟圓明會自己本身的成果專刊兩者之間的內容你有沒有比較過是有比較過他是他就是這個這裡面有之前圓明會的專刊沒有的內容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有嗎?這樣有沒有浪費公帑?有沒有浪費公帑都不敢回答喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
133.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我要給你清楚的表明啊這100%是浪費公帑啊拿納稅人的錢做個人自我宣傳可以這樣幹喔我上一次質詢的時候我已經請你們園民會的同仁講清楚喔在預算書裡面編在哪一個向下去支出這筆錢的因為我找不到嘛因為我找不到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
161.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
他們後來隨便跟我講了一個名目叫做推動原住民族政策法規制度處理族群關係及本會嚴考業務之規劃與執行所需經費向下但問題是這個向下全部喔只有139萬那我就看不懂了啊剛我念了那一長串了這麼多的工作要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
187.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
結果編了139萬那這個卻花了145萬出他個人的寫真集不好意思我就直接這樣講出他個人的寫真集那其他的錢從哪裡來我剛講那一長串的向下全部的錢拿來用在這裡都還不夠還要從別的地方挪是不是可以請主委承諾我一個禮拜之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
189.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
206.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個專刊從哪一些向下撥過來的說清楚講明白一個禮拜之內書面回覆因為這個會期是預算會期嘛我看到你們今年的預算書又有我剛剛講的那一長串 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
234.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
文字一模一樣推動原住民族政策法規制度處理族群關係及本會研考業務費用規劃質詢所需經費今年增加了去年是一百三十四萬今年增加到一百六十二萬來 主委今年你們預算書裡面啊剛我念的那一長串的向下的一百六十二萬你會不會拿來出這個不會絕對不會嘛絕對不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
237.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那奇怪了那你們去年在做這件事情的時候我剛講的那一長串的東西顯然沒有這個業務需求嘛因為所有的錢拿去給主委出個人專刊都不夠了哪有錢做其他的事啊那代表了這個經費不是很需要啊怎麼今年又變了162萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
259.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
280.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們要做就是整個會裡面不會出個人的,或者是這個就出個人的阿!我不會再出個人的了阿你不會再出個人的嗎?不會不會好,非常好喔來來,我們再往下看今天喔,司法法制跟內政聯席會阿我們審查先停一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
284.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
309.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
奇怪這個是這個是沒有電那個我先跟主委溝通一個問題可能你上任沒多久但我覺得行政跟立法彼此之間我們黨團發文給你所知就請你提供資料我們發文給你所知客客氣氣的問你你去帛琉的行程結果你們發兩張新聞稿回我們黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
312.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
341.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
稿到今天我必須要透過臨時提案的方式請你交你的行程出來沒有需要搞成這個樣子吧主委你認不認同認同你回去問一下會裡的人好不好好當初是誰決定發兩張新聞稿給我的好我們是立法委員我用黨團的名義去所知欸結果你發兩份新聞稿給我們今天我本來在考慮是不是要提遣這案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
343.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
363.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我真的在考慮要不要提前責案請主委回去了解清楚啊原民會哪一個同仁對於我發文去所知決定發兩個新聞稿給我把我當成媒體記者一模一樣給我一個書面報告可以嗎?好,可以,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
364.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
377.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
今天上面在審查你們9月公布替用族群的名單因為有原住民的委員要求有幾職要把他改成無幾職那你照理來講有族群名單這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
383.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
405.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有族群委員這件事情感覺起來是對原住民好啊竟然有原住民的委員提案要從有幾職改成無幾職啊所以這個提案我就非常聚精會神的去看16個16個16個替用委員一年需要多少經費 主委知不知道大概2200萬左右2200萬一個人一年要多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
413.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
441.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他一個月大概是八萬嘛一年大概就是一百萬左右不只啦你把那個細目啊把它全部弄出來啊我算過啦包括一些什麼有的沒有的補貼啦加班費啦所有的東西加起來十六個人兩千兩百萬一個人一年一百三十五萬嘛哇一百三十五萬一年一百三十五萬喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
443.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
465.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
哇 這個工作即使在公務體系裡面應該也是很好的工作嘛主委我這樣說沒有錯吧是待遇應該是非常好嘛是所以我就很關心嘛阿你們這些聘用委員到底是怎麼選出來的嘛我們先把基本的事實釐清啦這些聘用委員第一個不是選舉出來的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
467.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
492.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二、也不是國家考試出來的第三、也不是原民會自己辦的考試出來的我看了這個林聘辦法這個條件很寬鬆啦大概只要是熱心族群服務或深愛原住民事務深欲卓著就有資格了這個辦法是你們定的嘛後面又講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
499 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
528.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員之臨提必要的時候可以召開審查委員會審議嗎那你在提這些人的時候你有召開審查委員會嗎不是就是我們把所有他們所有可以自己推也可以自己推薦自己也可以團體來推薦沒有關係啦我只問你有召開審查委員會議嗎7月的時候有來做一個審就說一個初審所以沒有我們臺灣是法治國家你認同吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
528.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
553.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那既然是法治國家就要依法行政嘛那既然要依法行政你不是有一個林聘要點嗎林聘要點說必要的時候要開審查會議嘛那我的問題很簡單你有沒有開這個審查會議有還是沒有在七月的時候七月五號的時候有開呢開了多久就是把所有的資料整理一下我是問開了多久我不是問你整理哪些資料開了多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
555.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
582.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那個旁邊的同仁喔請你在旁邊這個會議你有沒有參加差不多是一小時這個會議你有沒有參加我沒有參加但是我是有看這些資料等一下等一下等一下你說這個審查委員會你沒有參加喔我有把資料先看等一下等一下我先評一下這個會議你有沒有參加你有參加還是沒有參加我沒有參加你連這個會議都沒有參加喔但是所有的資料我都看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
584.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
609.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
哇 我的天啊好好好所有的資料都看過嘛那一天審查委員會的時候的會議資料這15個人履歷表有沒有交上來15個人的履歷表有對有交還沒有交全部都有啊 履歷表都有沒有啊16個啊No 沒有我今天上午上面問你們副主委你們副主委跟我說他有參加這個審查會 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
611.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
638.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我就問他第一個問題審查會有哪些書面資料他講不出來那我就認了一下欸奇怪欸 這審查會很重要欸要好好審查嘛一個人一年135萬欸15個人審一個小時欸非常神速啊我聽到這個效率我大驚失色啊我就進一步追問那請問有哪些審查資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
640.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
667.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他認在那裡然後我問他說那請問有履歷表嗎他跟我說沒有然後我問他說那有什麼審查資料他說有一份名單他說有一份名單然後上面有這15個人的名字我的老天啊主委你按照這個臨聘要點啊上面的規定所開的審查會議啊連履歷表都沒有啊只有名單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
669.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
694.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主委你知不知道這件事啊還是你上面有給指令好好審查結果被你指派要審查的人根本在渾水摸魚情況到底是怎麼樣因為我剛才知道原來你沒有參加這個審查會議嗎因為所有他們的這個履歷表就是有投進來的履歷表我都有看過啦奇怪你有看過那些審查委員都沒看所以那個審查會議是在過水嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
697.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
715.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不是那奇怪 如果不是在過水 主委你可不可以跟大家解釋一下那他們那天開的審查會議 連履歷表都沒有 是在幹什麼因為這是你們副主委當面跟我講的啦你們旁邊那位處長 剛在上面的時候 你也有參與討論嘛你全部都有聽到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
716.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
743.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他就是這樣跟我講的啊我大驚失色啊我想說哇一年一百三十五萬待遇這麼好的職位在開審查會議的時候一張座覺得有人命連履歷表都沒有這太憨了不好意思我不應該用那個不好意思我不太確定你是不是可以聽得懂臺灣台語所以我換另外一個話講就是說你會不會覺得太扯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
745.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
772.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你以主委的高度告訴全體國人你會不會覺得太扯了因為這幾個人的這個履歷表我都有看過啊他們就是說整個整理起來這些人全部都是你挑的嗎不是我不是我挑的不是我不是我挑的不是你挑那是誰挑的就是我這個還要提報上去報上去這個是業者我先提一下這15個人裡面有沒有不是你提報的人有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
775.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
786.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這裡面有不是你提報的人喔來來來你跟大家講一下這15個有哪些不是你提報的人那等於是什麼行政院院長跳過你他自己選喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
787.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
804.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是嗎因為我們提報不會說一個組如果說一個組如果很多就是很多人他們的這個推薦的幾件的人很多那我們就不會只有提報一個人對啦所以這裡面是不是都在你的提報名單裡還是裡面有人不是你提報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
806.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
835.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有人不是我提報的那個會後再請主委跟大家用書面回覆我這15個人裡面有哪些不在你的提報名單上這樣可以嗎可以一個禮拜之內交上來可以嗎好這個事情為什麼重要因為原民會組織法怎麼規定的原民會組織法是要由主委提報給行政院院長任命那你今天解開大家的疑惑啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
836.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
863.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
原來裡面有委員不是你主委提報的欸等於是行政院院長跳過你欸塞他自己想要的人欸行政院院長可以幹這種事喔這個是嚴重喔請你回去徹查裡面有哪些人不是你提報的結果竟然是我們行政院院長任命的記得喔一個禮拜之內喔你在國會殿堂說裡面有人不是你提報的嘛好來我們來進一步看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
865.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
885.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這裡面的人有立委的助理有立委的執行長還有在幫民進黨一個特定的村在當聯絡人的充滿了一片綠油油、愁容的色彩還有參選、落選的那你這好康啊人是怎麼選的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
891.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
910.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
喂!這好康啊!各位委員報告,這個 嚴明會成立28年以來本來就有這樣的一個這個族群委員一直都是這樣一直都是拿來酬庸的一直都是拿來養莊養角的,是嗎?老今天齁,我不跟你談藍綠啦國民黨執政幹這種事情我照樣批判啦民進黨執政幹這種事情主委你認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
920.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
946.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你認同嗎?你以主委的高度你認同嗎?你認不認同?你也不認同嗎?好!好好的回去檢討這個制度你作為原民會的主委你今天有勇氣在國會殿堂裡面拉出你的高度現任的原民會主委也不認同我們的原民會聘用委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
948.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
976.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
給民進黨政府拿來這樣酬庸之用你這句話講得好有道德勇氣我給你一個讚這些人到底是怎麼選出來的我接下來一定會往下追查我一定會要行政院院長卓榮泰給大家一個交代時間的關係我雖然後面沒委員但我也不好意思耽誤所有的官員陪我在這邊繼續問你徐委員召委的時間我也要尊重好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
979.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
979.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:35:46 - 13:52:06 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
1300 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（13時35分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請原民會曾主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請曾主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：曾主委你好。行政院院長卓榮泰在總質詢時說政府用錢不可以浪費公帑、編預算不可以浪費公帑，那執行預算可不可以浪費公帑？可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：也不能浪費公帑。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：不能浪費公帑嘛，非常好。原民會前主委花了145萬的公帑出個人成果專刊，60頁都是他個人活動的照片，這是不是在浪費公帑？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，除了這些照片，他還是有一些那個時候的成果…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：你有看過內容嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我有大概看過。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：他裡面有成果的部分跟原民會自己本身的成果專刊，兩者之間的內容你有沒有比較過？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：是有比較過，但是他就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：這裡面有之前原民會的專刊沒有的內容嗎？有嗎？這樣有沒有浪費公帑？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：跟委員說明，我想這個是前一任……我想我們還是會來做個檢討，希望未來…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：有沒有浪費公帑都不敢回答，我要清楚的表明這百分之一百是浪費公帑，拿納稅人的錢做個人自我宣傳，可以這樣幹喔？我上一次質詢的時候，已經請你們原民會的同仁講清楚，在預算書裡面是編在哪一個項下去支出這筆錢的，因為我找不到。他們後來隨便跟我講了一個名目，叫做推動原住民族政策、法規制度、處理族群關係及本會研考業務之規劃與執行所需經費項下。問題是這個項下全部只有139萬，那我就看不懂了，剛剛我唸的那一長串這麼多的工作要做，結果編了139萬，卻花了145萬出他個人的寫真集。不好意思，我就直接這樣講，出他個人的寫真集，那其他的錢從哪裡來？我剛剛講那一長串的項下，全部的錢拿來用在這裡都還不夠，還要從別的地方挪。是不是可以請主委承諾我在一個禮拜之內，就這個專刊的錢從哪一些項下撥過來的，說清楚講明白，一個禮拜之內書面回復。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：因為這個會期是預算會期，我看到你們今年的預算書又有我剛剛講的那一長串，文字一模一樣，推動原住民族政策、法規制度、處理族群關係及本會研考業務費用規劃執行所需經費，今年增加了，去年是134萬，今年增加到162萬。主委，今年你們的預算書裡面，剛剛我唸的一長串項下的162萬，你會不會拿來出這個？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：絕對不會嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：絕對不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：那就奇怪了，你們去年在做這件事情的時候，我剛剛講的那一長串的東西，顯然沒有這個業務需求嘛，因為所有的錢拿去給主委出個人專刊都不夠了，哪有錢做其他的事啊！代表這個經費不是很需要啊！怎麼今年又編了162萬？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我們要做就是整個會裡面的，不會出個人的，或者是…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個就是出個人的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我不會再出個人的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：你不會再出個人的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：不會、不會！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，非常好。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
我們再往下看，今天司法及法制跟內政聯席會，我先跟主委溝通一個問題，可能你上任沒多久，但我覺得行政跟立法彼此之間，我們黨團發文給你索資，就請你提供資料，我們發文給你索資，客客氣氣的問你去帛琉的行程，結果你們發兩張新聞稿回給我們黨團，搞到今天我必須要透過臨時提案的方式，請你交出你的行程，沒有需要搞成這個樣子吧！主委你認不認同？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：認同。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：你回去問一下會裡的人，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
黃委員國昌：當初是誰決定發兩張新聞稿給我的？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
黃委員國昌：我們是立法委員，我用黨團的名義去索資，結果你發兩份新聞稿給我們。今天我本來在考慮是不是要提譴責案，我真的在考慮要不要提譴責案。請主委回去了解清楚，原民會的哪一個同仁對於我發文索資，決定發兩張新聞稿給我，把我當成媒體記者一樣。給我一個書面報告，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
黃委員國昌：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][1] |
今天樓上有審查，因為你們9月公布聘用族群委員的名單，有原住民的委員要求有給職要把它改成無給職，照理來講，有族群委員這件事情，感覺起來是對原住民好，但竟然有原住民的委員提案要從有給職改成無給職，所以這個提案我就非常聚精會神的去看，16個聘用委員一年需要多少經費，主委知不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：大概2,200萬左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
黃委員國昌：一個人一年要多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：他一個月大概是8萬，一年大概就是100萬左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
黃委員國昌：不只啦！如果把細目全部都弄出來，我算過了，包括一些什麼有的沒有的補貼、加班費等等，所有的東西加起來，16個人2,200萬，一個人1年135萬。哇！1年135萬喔！這個工作即使在公務體系裡面，應該也是很好的工作，主委，我這樣說沒有錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
黃委員國昌：待遇應該是非常好，所以我就很關心，你們這些聘用委員到底是怎麼選出來的？我們先把基本的事實釐清，第一個，這些聘用委員不是選舉出來的，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
黃委員國昌：第二個，也不是國家考試出來的，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：也不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
黃委員國昌：第三個，也不是原民會自己辦的考試出來的，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
黃委員國昌：我看了遴聘辦法，發現這個條件很寬鬆，大概只要是熱心族群服務或深諳原住民事務聲譽卓著者就有資格了，這個辦法是你們訂的？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
黃委員國昌：後面又講，委員之遴提必要的時候得召開審查委員會審議，你在提這些人的時候，你有召開審查委員會嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：不是，他們可以自己推薦自己，也可以團體來推薦…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有關係，我只問你有召開審查委員會議嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：7月的時候有做一個初審。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
黃委員國昌：我們臺灣是法治國家，你認同吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
黃委員國昌：既然是法治國家就要依法行政，既然要依法行政，你不是有一個遴聘要點嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
黃委員國昌：遴聘要點規定必要的時候要開審查會議，我的問題很簡單，你有沒有開這個審查會議？有還是沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：在7月5號的時候有開。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
黃委員國昌：開了多久？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：就是把所有的資料整理一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
黃委員國昌：我是問開了多久？我不是問你整理哪些資料。開了多久？旁邊的同仁，就請你在旁邊…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：差不多…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個會議你有沒有參加？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：差不多是1小時。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個會議你有沒有參加？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我沒有參加，但是我是有看到這些資料。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
黃委員國昌：等一下！你說這個審查委員會你沒有參加？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：是，我有把資料先看…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
黃委員國昌：等一下，我先停一下，這個會議你有沒有參加？你有參加還是沒有參加？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：我沒有參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
黃委員國昌：你連這個會議都沒有參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：但是所有的資料我都看過。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
黃委員國昌：哇！我的天啊！好，所有的資料都看過嘛，那一天審查委員會的會議資料，這15個人的履歷表有沒有交上來？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：15個人的履歷表，有。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
黃委員國昌：有交還沒有交？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：全部的履歷表都有…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：16個…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
黃委員國昌：NO！沒有！我今天上午在樓上問過你們副主委，你們副主委跟我說他有參加這個審查會，我就問他，第一個問題，審查會有哪些書面資料？他講不出來，我就楞了一下，奇怪耶！這個審查會很重要耶！要好好審查嘛！一個人1年135萬耶！15個人審1個小時，非常神速啊！聽到這個效率，我大驚失色啊！我就進一步追問，請問有哪些審查資料？他楞在那裡；然後我問他，請問有履歷表嗎？他跟我說沒有；然後我問他，那有什麼審查資料？他說有一份名單，然後上面有這15個人的名字，我的老天啊！按照這個遴聘要點上面的規定所開的審查會議，連履歷表都沒有啊！只有名單啊！主委，你知不知道這件事啊？還是你上面有給指令要好好審查，結果被你指派要審查的人根本在混水摸魚，情況到底是怎麼樣？因為我剛剛才知道，原來你沒有參加這個審查會議嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：他們所有投進來的履歷表，我都有看過啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
黃委員國昌：奇怪！你有看過，那些審查委員都沒看，所以那個審查會議是在過水嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
黃委員國昌：奇怪！如果不是在過水，主委可不可以跟大家解釋一下，他們那些人開的審查會議，連履歷表都沒有是在幹什麼？因為這是你們副主委當面跟我講的，你們旁邊那位處長剛剛在上面的時候也有參與討論，你全部都有聽到嘛！他就是這樣跟我講的啊！我大驚失色啊！哇！1年135萬、待遇這麼好的職位，在開審查會議的時候，一張紙上面只有人名，連履歷表都沒有，這會不會太「譀」？不好意思，我不太確定你是不是可以聽得懂臺灣台語，所以我換另外一個話來說。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：沒關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
黃委員國昌：就是說你會不會覺得太扯了？你以主委的高度告訴全體國人，你會不會覺得太扯了？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：因為這幾個人的履歷表我都有看過，他們就是整個整理起來…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
黃委員國昌：這些人全部都是你挑的嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：不是我挑的…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
黃委員國昌：等一下，不是你挑的，那是誰挑的？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：這個我還要提報上去，這個是…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
黃委員國昌：先停一下，這15個人裡面有沒有不是你提報的人？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：有啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
黃委員國昌：這裡面有不是你提報的人喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：有，就是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
黃委員國昌：來！你跟大家講一下，這15個委員有哪些不是你提報的人？那等於是什麼？行政院院長跳過你，由他自己選，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：因為我們提報不會是一個族，如果一個族他們推薦、舉薦的人很多，我們就不會只有提報一個人。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
黃委員國昌：對啦！所以這裡面是不是都在你的提報名單裡？還是裡面有人不是你提報的？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：有人不是我提報的。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
黃委員國昌：會後再請主委用書面回復我們大家，這15個人裡面有哪些不在你的提報名單上，這樣可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
黃委員國昌：一個禮拜之內交上來，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個事情為什麼重要？因為原民會組織法怎麼規定的？原民會組織法規定要由主委提報給行政院院長任命。你今天解開大家的疑惑了，原來裡面有委員不是你主委提報的，等於是行政院院長跳過你，塞他自己想要的人，行政院院長可以幹這種事喔？這個事情嚴重喔！請你回去徹查裡面有哪些人不是你提報的，結果竟然是我們行政院院長任命的，記得喔！一個禮拜之內。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
黃委員國昌：你在國會殿堂說裡面有人不是你提報的。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][1] |
我們來進一步看一下，這裡面的人有立委的助理、有立委的執行長，還有在幫民進黨、在一個特定的村當聯絡人的，充滿了一片綠油油、酬庸的色彩，還有參選落選的，怎麼會這麼好康啊？人是怎麼選的？怎麼會這麼好康啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，原民會成立28年以來，本來就有這樣一個族群委員，一直都是這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
黃委員國昌：一直都是拿來酬庸的，一直都是拿來養樁腳的，是嗎？今天我不跟你談藍綠，國民黨執政幹這種事情我照樣批判；民進黨執政幹這種事情，主委你認同嗎？以主委的高度，你認同嗎？你認不認同？ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
曾主任委員智勇：也不認同啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
黃委員國昌：你也不認同，好，回去好好檢討這個制度，你作為原民會的主委，你今天有勇氣在國會殿堂裡面拉出你的高度，現任的原民會主委也不認同我們原民會聘用委員給民進黨政府拿來這樣酬庸之用！你這句話講得好，有道德勇氣，我給你一個讚！這些人到底是怎麼選出來的，我接下來一定會往下追查，我一定會要行政院院長卓榮泰給大家一個交代。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][1] |
時間的關係，雖然後面沒委員了，但我也不好意思耽誤所有的官員陪我在這邊繼續問你，徐委員、召委的時間我也要尊重，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][1] |
登記發言的委員除不在場者，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員高金素梅、呂玉玲、蘇清泉、丁學忠、邱鎮軍所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
278 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-15-4 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
吳沛憶 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
187 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-09 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138001_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概
況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育
部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正
「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138001_00004 |