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| 委員名稱 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席首先有請我們的李主委請李主委嗨主委阿我現在頭很大會麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
你曉得有時候你們公平委員會做一個決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
31.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
會讓一家公司請假上場無以為盡那苗栗縣有一家直銷公司我也請你來了解整個狀況人家好好的一家公司在經營但是你公平委員會裡面堅持送到檢調單位還變成擴大偵辦結果這家公司打了8年的官司都要到最高法院打贏了但是財產也被查封什麼資料都被查封 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
75.093 |
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阿現在要重新開倉會困難重重我替他找每一家銀行說重新大家都說有紀錄不願意辦阿這現在我光是拍啊你公平委員會跟我提出提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
76.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.336 |
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結果我贏了,你們都不用負責任。人家要再繼續再經營,也得不到尋求解決的辦法。你也要有一些辦法,要把民間的企業稅就提高,就升到檢調單位,現在要怎麼來辦?我跟你講,我花了大概4、5個月,帶他到一家銀行,銀行去,銀行都不辦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
100.515 |
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104.657 |
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實在你這個提出跟人家送到檢調單位最後打死了你們真的要出來負責任啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
104.657 |
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105.038 |
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你看法怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
117.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
137.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那個委員您講的是具體是哪一家公司?清雲直銷公司慶餘嘛,就是那個骨灰攤那個骨灰攤,那個案件我會了解,來處長你說他最後打贏了吧,最後法院打贏了嘛,這間公司危機倒閉了不是個案,這個是由你們發動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
143.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
147.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我聽不清楚戴著口罩我真的聽不清楚你講的靠近麥克風一點吶 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
158.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
177.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是跟委員報告這個案子呢他是在我們102年的6月我們有接獲這個慶允公司他涉及到這個變質沒有啦我不講那個內容只有你們提告對但是官司打贏了所有Source要如何來負責你們公平委員會要如何去負這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
178.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
179.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這就是涉及刑事案件移送 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
198.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
225.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個剪掉當中去處理一家豪華公司你們提出來要充斥很充足最後人家打贏了阿你要如何解釋不要隨隨便便不要為自己辯護那司法的判決他贏了表示你們錯了你來跟我一起討論來解決我帶你去你們要負責任我只有一句話不是這樣提高了沒你們的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
228.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
250.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
人家辛辛苦苦幾十年打拼出來的事業還在這裡毀於一旦你們有沒有良心啊注意一下這樣的情形好不好不要講說你們辦案的經過我們也一清二楚好不好那麼堅持結果導致一個廠商倒閉啊養了很多人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
253.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
278.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這位要不要一起來負這個責任不然每天來找我 我的頭很大就是說公務員遇到有涉法的案件移送檢調單位那至於他有罪無罪或有沒有違法就是由司法機關才認定結果是沒有違法那基本上公務員我們沒有這個調查的權利沒有辦法百分之百保證他違法才移送這個還是要去進行司法機關的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
281.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
283.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
發言委員：陳超明發言委員：陳超明 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
310.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
311.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那再來今天最熱門的話題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
337.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
357.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那個Uber Eats跟Panda Food 307億兩家都外商公司我現在發覺臺灣的官員都沒有兩隻腳很硬尤其高通的事件給我感觸非常深法環可以當作說用投資來轉變我等一下時間可能不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
359.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
380.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那你們確定要怎樣?兩家起來,外商以求以勤。李知偉,我不曉得你有沒有擔當會讓他們合併?佔了將近80%的市場。兩家外商大公司來,你受得了嗎?從高通裡面就看出你執政黨就永遠這樣,碰到外人的話? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
381.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
403.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就腳就軟下來,碰到臺灣的廠商就冰冰的砍殺我們不會有這種差別待遇,都是照法律來審查我跟您講,看到您覺得很遺憾,您覺得他來拜託的那個樣子我們心中很難過,你們都不覺得難過我跟委員保證,我做公務員到現在我一向都是依據法律來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
阿你這個關於Uber Eats跟呼大便你會不會同意阿大家議論紛紛阿我是覺得不要有競爭才有進步不可能給他們聯合結合在一起那外商要吃你很容易不要講的時候板口的逆道德要賺台灣的錢什麼手段都可以使得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
444.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
您看法怎麼樣?大家都期待看你公平會委員怎麼做我想公平會我們一定會針對這麼重大的結合案件依法審慎處理不會因為這個國人或者是外商有不同的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
445.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
463.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好不好,要有單單一點,他們兩個吃下來賺了80%馬上就調整價格,這個很快,台灣改變的形態,吃的形態也改變很快,慎重慎重,不要碰到外山就腳軟了,什麼都答應。還有時間嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
467.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
492.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
關於高通快要結束了我看你的報告我也不知道你到底在說什麼講得很多但是其實那個7億的賠償單位投資到處去挖角拿這個錢去蓋他們的大樓這叫做投資你到現在為止他的晶片所有的挖坑政府機關他也不便於抱怨 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
493.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
520.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他的競爭對手就是蓮花科兩以外人不以家農7億工研院藝人的預算大概就是210億剛好跟這個金額差不多你們這樣前去的臺灣沒有一點利益就已經絕世了就媽媽夫婦不用了事過去我們都有那個跨部會在處理我們在這裡都照這個和解條件在做國科會他們的社會誰敢去得罪他 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
522.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
545.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
蓮花科是自立自強更生起來的,長到世界上沒有你把他抱起來給他,做成了10億的病,開工就好。這政府當時我不知道怎麼想,我都不能懷疑外商,都不能懷疑美國論,美國講什麼要跟著什麼。你炒人造成蓮花科競爭很大的質疑,契約。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
546.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
547.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
請教這個和解條件來進行 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:22:45 - 11:32:14 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
750 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員超明：（11時22分）主席，首先有請李主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請李主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳委員超明：主委，我現在頭很大，事情很麻煩，因為有時候公平委員會所做的一個決定，會讓一家公司傾家蕩產，無以為繼！苗栗縣有家直銷公司，我現在要請你來了解狀況。人家好好的在經營一家公司，但公平委員會堅持送檢調單位，還擴大偵辦，結果這家公司打了8年的官司，最後到最高法院打贏了，但是財產被查封，什麼資料都被查封，以致現在想要重新開張卻困難重重！我替他找銀行，但每一家銀行都說有紀錄不願意辦。這是因為公平委員會提告所致，現在他官司打贏了，你們卻不用負責任？人家想再繼續經營，卻找不到解決的辦法！你們要有點道德良心，提告一家民間企業、還送檢調單位調查，請問現在怎麼辦？我花了大概4、5個月時間，載他到每一家銀行去，但銀行都說不辦，說很麻煩。你好歹也要有點道義責任，總不能公平交易委員就輕輕鬆鬆的吧？說實在的，你們把人家送到檢調單位，最後你們官司打輸了，就要站出來負責任，你的看法怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
李主任委員鎂：委員，您講的具體是哪一家公司？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳委員超明：慶云直銷公司。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
李主任委員鎂：慶云？就是賣骨灰罈那個？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳委員超明：在苗栗。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
李主任委員鎂：那個案件據我的瞭解……我請處長說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳委員超明：他最後打贏了吧？到最高法院打贏了，但這家公司已經無以為繼，倒閉了。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
李主任委員鎂：這個案子我請處長說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳委員超明：這不是個案，是由你們發動的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
沈處長麗玉：這個案子涉及變質多層次傳銷，所以我們在102年時…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳委員超明：竟然都沒有你們的事！你戴口罩我聽不清楚你講的，靠近麥克風一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
沈處長麗玉：跟委員報告，我們在102年6月接獲慶云公司涉及變質多層次傳銷…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳委員超明：我不講內容…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
沈處長麗玉：但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳委員超明：雖然你們提告，但人家官司打贏了，所以受損的部分你們要如何負責？公平委員會要如何去負這個責任？就簡單兩、三句話而已。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
李主任委員鎂：照處長所說，由於涉及刑事案件，所以我們移送…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳委員超明：就算是刑事案件，但人家打贏了，可是現在還無法重新營業！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我們剛才也回應很多委員，在查察過程中，如果認為疑似刑事案件的話，就會移送給檢調單位去處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳委員超明：你們真的很不負責！一家經營得好好的公司，你們要提告的話就要證據充足，結果現在人家打贏了，對此你要如何解釋？不要隨隨便便，也不要為自己辯護！就司法判決來說，他贏了代表你們錯了…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
李主任委員鎂：是移送。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳委員超明：你跟我一起討論怎麼解決，我帶你去，因為你們要負責任。我只有一句話要說：不是提告後就沒你們的事了！人家辛辛苦苦幾十年打拚出來的事業，就這樣毀於一旦，你們有沒有良心？要注意一下這樣的情形，好不好？不要提你們辦案的經過，這些我們都一清二楚，好不好？當初那麼堅持，卻讓一家廠商倒閉？況且那時他也養了很多人。主委，要不要一起來負責任？不然他每天來找我，我頭很大！ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
李主任委員鎂：公務員遇到涉法案件要移送檢調單位，至於有罪無罪，或有沒有違法，就是由司法機關來認定…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳委員超明：結果是沒有違法，贏了！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
李主任委員鎂：基本上公務員並沒有調查權力，沒有辦法百分之百保證違法才移送，還是要由司法機關調查。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳委員超明：不然也要幫忙人家解決善後，你們搞垮了一家公司，居然完全不需負責任？好不好？即使想申請國賠也打不贏，也恐怕耗時很久。不過至少打贏了，既然是由你們移送檢調單位，那就請你們幫忙負責任，去跟銀行溝通一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
李主任委員鎂：報告委員，我們不知道法院會判決有罪無罪，但我們發現涉及違法行為…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳委員超明：既然判決無罪，就代表你們起訴錯誤！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我們沒有起訴，我們是把疑似犯法案件移給檢察官偵辦。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳委員超明：你送過去，檢察官就一定會調查，所以不要輕易這樣做！為官要有道德良心，所以我才把事實拿出來講，而且事情就真的發生了！我當初跟你說要考慮，要慎重一點，你們還是堅持要做，把我的話當馬耳東風，現在才知道很難善了。官這麼好做的話，我也會做。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][1] |
再來是今天最熱門的話題，就是Uber Eats跟foodpanda 307億的併購案，這兩家都是外商公司。我發覺臺灣官員都沒有腳，很硬，但高通事件讓我感觸非常深，罰鍰居然可以轉做投資？所以這件事你們要怎樣做？這兩家合併了，等於讓外商予取予求！李主委，不曉得你有沒有擔當讓他們合併？畢竟占了將近80%的市場。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我想會不會…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳委員超明：這是兩家外商大公司，你受得了嗎？從高通的案子就可以看出執政黨永遠就是這樣，碰到外人就腳軟，碰到臺灣廠商就拚命砍殺…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
李主任委員鎂：不會，我們不會有這種差別待遇，都照法律規定來審查。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳委員超明：慶云的事件就是這樣。我告訴你，我看到你就覺得很遺憾！尤其他來拜託我的那個樣子，讓我看了心中很難過，但你們都不覺得難過！ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我可以向委員保證，我當公務員到現在，一向都依據法律來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳委員超明：從頭到尾公平委員會在保證什麼我不曉得，至於Uber Eats跟foodpanda的合併案你會不會同意？大家對此議論紛紛，不過我覺得不要！有競爭才有進步，所以不能讓他們結合在一起。其實要處理外商很容易，他們也不要講得好似滿口的仁義道德，要賺臺灣的錢，什麼手段都使得出來！你的看法怎麼樣？大家都期待看公平會會怎麼做。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我想我們公平會一定會針對這麼重大的結合案件，依法審慎處理，不會因為這個是國人或者是外商有不同的處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳委員超明：好不好，要有擔當一點！他們兩個吃下來占了80%，馬上就調整價格，這個很快！臺灣改變了型態，吃的型態也改變很快，慎重、慎重！不要碰到外商就腳軟了，什麼都答應。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
李主任委員鎂：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳委員超明：關於高通，我看你們的報告，我也不知道到底你們是怎麼說的，講了很多，但是其實那個區域的賠償單位投資，到處去挖角，拿這個錢去蓋他們的大樓，這叫做投資？到現在為止，聯發科──政府機關也不便於抱怨，它的競爭對手就是聯發科，寧與外人不與家奴，7億美金耶！工研院一年的預算大概就是210億，剛好跟這個金額差不多，拿我們錢去蓋的，臺灣也沒有一點利益，本案就已經結束了，就馬馬虎虎，敷衍了事過去！ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我們都有跨部會在處理，也有請專家，都是照這個和解條件去做。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳委員超明：說到跨部會，經濟部、國科會只要說好，誰敢去得罪它？聯發科是自立自強、更生起來的，長到世界性，不然你撥7億去給他們，做出來的絕對會比Qualcomm更好！有時候我都不知道這個政府是怎麼想的，說不能懷疑外商，說不能懷疑美國論，美國講什麼就要跟著什麼，你們的作法造成聯發科競爭很大的質疑，7億美金、210億臺幣，工研院一年的預算210億，你把一個工研院一年的預算送去給高通，但臺灣人都沒有！連骨頭都沒有，連湯都沒得喝！好好檢討一下，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我們一直依照和解條件在進行。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
主席：請洪孟楷委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
54 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-09-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1137901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1137901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1137901_00001 |
| IVOD_ID |
154985 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154985 |
| 日期 |
2024-09-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-2 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-09-30T11:22:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-09-30T11:32:14+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |