| IVOD_ID |
154972 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154972 |
| 日期 |
2024-09-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-09-30T10:56:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-09-30T11:06:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| video_url |
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請鄭天財委員質詢主席委員我們請李主委請李主委主委好辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.675 |
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這個還是要跟主委還有公平會的所有的同仁網路的詐騙其實他就是一個教育他用教育的手段然後去做詐騙這樣的一個情形非常非常的普遍臺灣已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.719 |
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這個被詐騙的金額最高的一個國家這樣的一個數字這個台灣被詐金額佔GDP高達0.9%是已開發國家的第一換算絕對金額高達2000億台幣這麼高所以這個部分是一個當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
115.954 |
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公平教育委員會成立的時候或是我們的公平教育法制定的當時沒有這樣的一個情形所以要以時計進到底法不周延如何去修正這個應該是要現在都是交給警察單位主要是警察單位在處理這是錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
137.827 |
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所以這個部分如果我們看公平交易委員會組織法第一條行政院為維護交易自信以消費者權益所以要成立這個公平會公平交易委員會組織法第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
140.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
168.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這裏面掌理的事項如果跟剛才講的有比較有接近的話屬於的話不是接近屬於的話違反公平交易法案件之調查及處分所以像這樣的一個情形怎麼樣去去處理公平交易法第二條事業公司的比較少這種情形網絡詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
171.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
198.371 |
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獨資或合夥或其他提供商品或服務從事交易之人或團體公平交易法第25條除本法另有規定者外事業亦不得為其他主義影響交易自息之期望 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
199.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
227.848 |
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7網就是欺騙嘛對不對7網就是欺騙嘛所以這樣的一個情形之下這個公平會到底你們這怎麼樣去積極的如果法不足就修法人力不足就增加人力好 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
228.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
229.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
移送司法當然是應該所以怎麼樣公平會要去主動 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
276.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
297.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主動有很多種,已經發生的事情要主動,還沒有發生的要怎麼去讓人民去防範更重要,對不對,讓人民去防範更重要,就像過去多層次傳銷開始很慢, |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
301.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
314.14 |
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這個這個這個非常多的情況的時候你們有多很多的這個氣氣這個的先導讓人民知道怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣不要被受騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
315.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
337.947 |
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所以你們現在這個部分有沒有在做有第一個我們在除了在電視的跑馬燈或者是在這個跟大學跟司法機關還有在跟民眾之間我們都有定期的宣導會座談會這個一直是我們在做的一件事情我們全省各地都有在做宣導好這個你們除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
342.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
360.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
除了我先把這個你們的對25條規定如何判斷事業行為是否過程第25條之期往或顯示公平。這裡面你們也判斷期往應考量的事項都有寫了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
362.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
389.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以積極欺瞞或消極隱匿重要交易資訊自引人錯誤之方式從事交易之行為冒充或不實或隱匿像這樣的你們要因為這個你們這個已經放很久了這樣的那個處理的一個原則放很久或者要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
390.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
413.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你們要以時計進,要去分析現況,打些案件哪些案件網路,哪些案件是已經以時,怎麼樣去把它做一個修正更符合這個一個現況,然後叫你們在做宣導的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
419.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
438.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
440.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你是不是把這個類型有哪些類型 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
468.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
473.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
490.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對於這個違反這個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
525.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
545.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們要看他這個行為有沒有涉及到詐欺或是其他的這個法律禁止的行為會看這個案情來決定要不要移送或者是由公平法來處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
546.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
573.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以你們是折一嗎?還是兩者並行?如果涉及到形式那因為司法機關調查就會移送給司法機關如果是行政處罰的適用範圍我們就會去處理所以你們是折一?如果依這個處罰依公平交易法是12條處罰你們就不移送了是嗎?如果沒有涉及到形式的行為是不會移送 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
574.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
592.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那你們也提供那個你們到底移送了哪些類型那後來這個這個法院判決會告訴你們嗎最後的結果法院的判決會跟我們會處理是不是也提供資料好的謝謝 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:56:06 - 11:06:05 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
592 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時56分）主席、委員。我們請李主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請李主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委好，辛苦了。還是要跟主委和公平會所有的同仁說，網路的詐騙其實就是一個交易，它用交易的手段去做詐騙，這個情形非常、非常普遍，臺灣被詐金額占GDP高達0.9%，是已開發國家第一，換算絕對金額高達2,000億臺幣，這麼高！ |
| gazette.blocks[2][1] |
公平交易委員會成立的時候，或者是我們的公平交易法制定當時，並沒有這樣的情形，所以要與時俱進，法不周延，到底要如何去修正？現在都是交給警察單位，主要是警察單位在處理，這是錯誤的。針對這個部分，如果我們看公平交易委員會組織法第一條，它規定的是行政院為維護交易秩序與消費者權益，所以要成立公平會，而公平交易委員會組織法第二條規定了公平會掌理的事項，其中屬於剛才講的是「違反公平交易法案件之調查及處分」，所以像這樣的情形要怎麼樣去處理？在公平交易法第二條對「事業」的定義當中，公司從事網路詐騙的比較少，大概是獨資或合夥之工商行號，或者是其他提供商品或服務從事交易之人或團體。而公平交易法第二十五條規定「除本法另有規定者外，事業亦不得為其他足以影響交易秩序之欺罔……」，欺罔就是欺騙嘛！對不對？所以在這樣的情形之下，公平會到底要怎麼樣去積極作為？如果法不足就修法，人力不足就增加人力！主委？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
李主任委員鎂：謝謝委員。在公平法，我們的任務就如同您剛才提出來的，我們是在維持公平競爭，不可以有不公平競爭。其中，您提到不實廣告，所以不實廣告這部分也是我們查處的重點。不實如果涉及到詐欺、詐騙，這不只是行政責任，也是刑事責任，我們就會移送司法機關，該搜索、該調查的，司法機關會去調查。確實公平會對於商品或服務不實的廣告，我們應該要積極查處。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：當然是應該移送司法，所以公平會要怎麼樣主動？主動有很多種，已經發生的事情要主動，還沒有發生的要怎麼讓人民去防範更重要，對不對？讓人民防範更重要，就像過去多層次傳銷開始很慢，情況非常多的時候，你們多了很多宣導，讓人民知道怎麼樣去防範，怎麼樣不要受騙，所以你們現在有沒有在做這個部分？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
李主任委員鎂：有，第一個，除了在電視的跑馬燈，或者是跟大學、司法機關，還有與民眾之間，我們都有定期的宣導會、座談會，這個一直是我們在做的事情，我們全省各地都有在宣導。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，我先就第二十五條規定，如何判斷事業行為是否構成第二十五條之欺罔或顯失公平？你們判斷欺罔應考量事項都有寫了，指以積極欺瞞或消極隱匿重要交易資訊致引人錯誤之方式，從事交易之行為。如冒充或不實或是隱匿等，像這樣的，因為這樣的處理原則或要點已經放很久了，你們要與時俱進，有沒有分析哪些案件、網路哪些案件，怎麼樣把它修正，以更符合現況，然後你們在宣導的時候也會比較完備，所以這個部分要再加油。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
李主任委員鎂：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：公平交易法第四十二條規定違反第二十五條有這個處罰，你們對於違反第二十五條有沒有相關處罰的這些…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
李主任委員鎂：第二十五條我們處罰的案例很多，譬如說，前一陣子造成糾紛最多的不實推銷美容美髮產品，全省各地都發生，我們罰了2,500萬，或者是強迫推銷也是有第二十五條的問題，我們也做了相當多的處罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這樣，你是不是把哪些類型，然後處罰的情形，你們到底是罰了多少？需不需要修這條也必須要考量，是不是太輕？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
李主任委員鎂：這一條其實最嚴重的譬如說聯合等等，在前面的條文裡面都有重罰，第二十五條這一條就是萬一前面的條文罰不到，但是還是有違反競爭的情形，我們用第二十五條，現在的處罰是5萬到2,500萬，其實這個罰則已經相當高，而且還可以連續處罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：第四十二條對於違反第二十五條，你們除了罰，是不是會跟移送刑事的部分同時一併處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
李主任委員鎂：我們要看這個行為有沒有涉及詐欺或是其他法令禁止的行為，會看這個案情來決定要不要移送，或者是由公平法來處罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以你們是擇一，還是兩者並行？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
李主任委員鎂：如果涉及刑事，因為要由司法機關調查，就會移送給司法機關；如果是行政處罰的適用範圍，我們就會去處理，像剛才我講的這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以你們是擇一？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
李主任委員鎂：應該說看它的性質、適用法律…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：如果依公平交易法第四十二條處罰，你們就不移送了，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
李主任委員鎂：如果沒有涉及刑事行為是不會移送。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，請你們也提供到底移送了哪些類型，法院判決最後的結果會再告訴你們嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
李主任委員鎂：法院的判決會跟我們……會處理…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：會告訴你們，是不是也提供資料？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
李主任委員鎂：好的，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：請邱志偉召委質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
54 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-09-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1137901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1137901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1137901_00001 |