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傅委員崐萁：（14時33分）主席，請院長。 |
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主席：請卓院長備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：傅委員好。 |
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傅委員崐萁：卓院長好。 |
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卓院長榮泰：您這陣子公私兩忙，辛苦了。 |
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傅委員崐萁：自古有云，國有明君，輕賦稅，薄徭役，民胞物與，修養生息，仁民愛物，天地同感。今天賴總統當選就任，應該是國政清明、德澤四方；卓院長帶領國政，應該是繁榮昌盛、國泰民安。院長就任已經4個月了，從520到現在剛好4個月，請問你有沒有民胞物與、感同身受，有沒有看見人民的眼淚？我們看一下，從花蓮地震4月3號到現在，人民的眼淚到今天已經五個多月，5個月又16天，到今天為止，花蓮災民的問題到現在還沒有辦法解決，我們的國家在哪裡？人民的苦難有沒有看見？ |
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我們看一下這次的大地震，可能卓院長已經遠離太久了，我再讓你複習一下，如同921大地震如此的嚴重，有這麼多的災民在這裡哀號，這麼多的民宅毀損。我們就來比較一下，2018年0206花蓮大地震當時的受災戶是195戶，現在的受災戶是10倍，我想院長已經耳熟能詳了，紅單、黃單戶總共1,949戶，災民五千多人無家可歸，五個多月過去了，現在安身立命依然還是如漂流的浮萍，不知道國家給他們重建到底什麼時候才能夠完成。院長，我相信你到花蓮來勘災的時候是帶著誠意，但是除了誠意以外，是不是還應該要有效率，院長？ |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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傅委員崐萁：要有效率，好！到今天為止，花蓮震災的救災到目前為止，這個效率你滿意嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：花蓮的狀況傅委員比任何人都清楚，我記得我們每次到花蓮跟傅委員一起，不管是公開還是私底下的談話，我們都深深為那個地方的狀況感到非常憂慮，這是真的，也謝謝傅委員一再一再的關心。但是光是交通的安全問題，每次大雨一來，我們的交通部就費盡很多心思，我認為我們要長遠來處理這個事情，這是一件。另外，我也知道，現在花蓮旅宿業有很多很多的陳情，包括他們的貸款有問題，包括他們的勞工人力有問題，包括整個產業的振興，但是我也看到有五星級飯店最近要開了，我是非常敬佩這些大飯店能夠在這個時候開，我希望它能夠帶動起大家對花蓮從事觀光活動的一股希望。我也會持續地跟傅委員一起，我們再到花蓮去就當地的現狀做全面的瞭解，關於房屋的修建，大院7月份有做過一個決議，我們在9月16日已經送到國發會，就整個內容跟以往不同的狀況我們有新的解決方法，向委員報告。 |
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傅委員崐萁：請問院長，要不要遵守國會三黨共同簽署對人民的承諾，院會三讀通過要不要執行？ |
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卓院長榮泰：立法院監督行政院，對立法院的各項決議我們當然是本著憲法職責充分尊重，執行過程我們會考量更多的因素，但是無論如何都會向立法院就執行面做報告。 |
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傅委員崐萁：本席再跟你探討一下臺南大地震和花蓮大地震，我們看一下2016年臺南大地震，維冠大樓重建每戶最高400萬元，花蓮大地震是8年以後，紅單戶屋倒每戶重建最多補助30坪、1坪12萬共360萬，面對嚴重的天災，一樣是地震，在臺南和花蓮卻大不同。而且我們再看一下，當時臺南是8年前，花蓮是8年後，這8年發生了什麼事情？花蓮的青年住宅1坪8.47萬決標，而內政部這兩年在花蓮決標的中美好室社會住宅一坪16.96萬決標，然後美崙安居18.34萬決標，一樣的房子，花蓮的青年住宅（縣政府發包的）有國家認證、耐震標章，還得到行政院的磐石獎，已經蓋好了，發包一坪是8.47萬，現在內政部這兩年發包的是16.96萬跟18.34萬，物價漲了一倍多。2016年臺南一戶是補助400萬，今年花蓮一戶是補助360萬，所以立法院7月16號所通過的主決議是希望能夠把災民的重建迅速來完成，因為我們黃單戶修建的部分、整建的部分補助八成五，但是紅單戶屋倒了、要拆了，到現在還沒有一個能夠讓他們安身立命的清楚方式，所以由立法院三黨共同簽署補助八成五，即現在興建成本的八成五，而且就很簡單，內政部自己在花蓮的中美好室社會住宅、美崙安居社會住宅，現在是一坪18萬4,000塊，補助八成五，儘快讓人民安身立命的事能夠解決。 |
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本席再強調一下，從4月3號到現在已經五個多月了，院長，據聞本席追內政部之後，內政部在9月11號發文到行政院，希望行政院趕快就相關的辦法來核定，院長什麼時候可以核定？ |
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卓院長榮泰：剛剛跟委員報告，我們在9月16號已經經由國發會……現在在審議當中，我們會儘速的…… |
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傅委員崐萁：儘速是什麼時候？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我看國發會安排的時程，不會讓委員失望，不會讓花蓮的鄉親失望。 |
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傅委員崐萁：是面對災民欸！是面對災民欸！ |
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卓院長榮泰：不會讓花蓮的鄉親失望。 |
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傅委員崐萁：是什麼時候？什麼時候？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們請國發會來看它議程的安排。 |
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劉主任委員鏡清：報告委員，我們在9月16號收到文之後，9月18號函相關部會請他們給予意見，我們在下禮拜會親自召開會議，希望在一週內可以有一個回復的意見回來。 |
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傅委員崐萁：院長，本席讓你看一下，2018年2月6號花蓮的大地震，4月26號花蓮縣政府重建的安心宅就動工了，經過所有災民的協調、所有社會慈善資源的募集、中央政府的支持，加災民的溝通、加上全國的招商，再公開說明會、再規劃、設計、發包，然後動工，兩個月二十天，2018年2月6號的地震，2018年4月26號縣政府就動工了，一年多、兩年完工，抗八級地震，有耐震標章，又是綠建築。本席在這裡請教，現在已經五個多月了，還要經過立法院三黨共識達成主決議、院會通過，現在還在等行政院，有沒有感同身受、民胞物與？ |
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卓院長榮泰：當然有。 |
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傅委員崐萁：本席今天聽到你說了，謝謝院長說你會儘快，本席在等，看您什麼時候能夠落實立法院的主決議，讓這些災民不是有政府的承諾補助以後，還要開說明會、還要開重建會議、還要去招商、還要去發包、還要等到動工，動工以後還要等到完工，而且這一次不是以前的12樓，這次都是15樓、16樓密集的集合式高層住宅，這個重建之路非常漫長，所以院長，本席相信，再一次講，您擔任閣揆應該是繁榮昌盛、國泰民安，民眾的苦難、民眾的眼淚、人民的眼淚，政府的大官到底有沒有看見、有沒有感同身受？本席就恭候看院會什麼時候核定，到底我們還要等多久？ |
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再過來，這次地震的災民不只是這些受災戶，我們還有這麼多的產業，包括觀光、包括農業，花東的人民還在走這種道路。本席跟你介紹一下，現在的蘇花公路在清朝叫做蘇花古道，在日據時代叫做臨海道路，現在全國大概只有花東人民還比照孟加拉人民，我們是一個已開發國家，一個國家還有兩種人民，我們還在走百年前的蘇花古道，下個雨就坍掉，不是路坍而已，連鐵路也停了。請問一下院長，今年到現在，你知道花蓮成為孤島幾次了？院長。 |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這是我們共同關切的問題，我也跟委員說明…… |
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傅委員崐萁：我們現在成為孤島幾次了？ |
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卓院長榮泰：每次大雨來，它就會交通中斷，甚至我們在臺北感受不到的時候…… |
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傅委員崐萁：院長，你不曉得，本席提醒你一下，地震後到今天，有8次的鐵公路中斷，花蓮成為孤島8次，這是臺灣這塊土地上的人民，連大陸的三級城市都不如，8次鐵公路中斷，花蓮成為孤島。請問一下，我們說好的這些告警系統，從馬政府時代就通過的預算，這8年來執行到現在，我們的告警系統一直在出包，我們的告警系統、我們的攔石網到底在哪裡？怎麼樣能夠把這些石頭攔住？怎麼樣能夠疏解？請問一下，院長，最基本的攔石網什麼時候可以做好？ |
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卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我們跟大自然的競爭就是這個樣子，要跟它和平相處，所以每次交通中斷，我們就啟動海運、啟動空運，我們也拜託民航的業者…… |
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傅委員崐萁：那個待會再講。 |
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卓院長榮泰：從上次我們發覺鐵路的告警系統不足，我們也已經要求鐵路局要全面加強。 |
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傅委員崐萁：院長，什麼叫攔石系統，你看一下，這是最簡單的，到底這條路什麼時候可以讓人民安全回家？ |
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卓院長榮泰：委員，我跟你說，我跟你報告，我在當地，我們在開現場說明的時候，這個路就是這樣子，它石頭還在下來，我非常清楚，包括居民、鄉民，包括工程人員的安全的問題，我跟你一樣感同身受，至於工程怎麼樣進行、怎麼樣完成…… |
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傅委員崐萁：院長…… |
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卓院長榮泰：是不是容許我們新的交通部長陳部長跟你說明一下他的了解？ |
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傅委員崐萁：等一下，待會會輪到他，不要急。現在是這樣子，院長，這是一個最基本的攔石網，對公路也好、對鐵路，現在本席都沒有講到說明隧道還是傾斜鋼板，現在一個最基本的攔石網，至少你整條路什麼地方、會坍下來的地方，如果公路總局不知道、交通部不知道…… |
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陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個我們都知道、地方都知道…… |
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傅委員崐萁：那個就是完全跟人民是脫節的，既然…… |
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陳部長世凱：地點我們都知道，正在進行…… |
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傅委員崐萁：很好，交通部如果知道的話，請告訴人民，這些地方你要怎麼做，計畫要馬上出來。 |
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陳部長世凱：報告委員，那個地方的災情…… |
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傅委員崐萁：你可以先送給本席，今天本席沒有要問你。 |
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陳部長世凱：好，謝謝。 |
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傅委員崐萁：告警系統做了這麼多年到現在，我們看一下，鐵路又出軌，告警系統竟然還會讓鐵路出軌，本席要再讓你了解一下，院長，為什麼我們要這麼沉重來討論這個問題？人民要怎麼活下去？我們的觀光做成什麼樣子？花蓮就兩大產業，第一個叫觀光產業，第二個叫做農業。觀光產業現在我們暑假住房率5%，因為路又斷了。 |
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陳部長世凱：報告委員，交通部其實很努力在補助啦！ |
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傅委員崐萁：最慘的暑假！最慘的暑假！5%！院長，您可能還沒有進入狀況，本席再說明一次，這個5%代表什麼意思？暑假應該是百分之百住房的，現在5%是什麼意思？花蓮的觀光產業，現在待售的民宿、要sell的民宿將近一千家，請問員工的薪水要不要付？請問銀行的貸款要不要付？這是系統性的風暴，都要發生。 |
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卓院長榮泰：我剛剛在施政報告都有提到這兩部分。 |
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傅委員崐萁：但是我們沒有看到具體的作為而且有效的作為，今天政府不是說我有做，而是你做得有沒有效，國家龐大的資源都在你手上，做得有沒有效、能不能夠把災民救出來，這才是重點，你不能說我有做啊！但是做不到啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：沒有做到更快、更多、更好，我當然願意全力的來檢討，但我們是全力在做，但是有很多自然的狀況，很阻礙我們各種的進展…… |
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傅委員崐萁：你剛剛說自然的狀況，好！我們現在講我們現有的狀況，這不是大自然因素造成的，我們看一下現在臺北─花蓮的班機，請問一下院長，你們到底是把花蓮看作一個什麼樣的地方？一個觀光的城市，過去到2016年，臺北─花蓮一年2,600班次，現在兩百多班，花蓮機場是全國最漂亮的機場，在那邊養蚊子，我們的交通部是睡著了嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，陳部長已經解決……要解決這個問題了，他有方法、有時程…… |
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傅委員崐萁：兩千六百多班有沒有解決？你找時間再來跟我說明。 |
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陳部長世凱：委員，我那天跟你通電話之後…… |
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傅委員崐萁：我今天是問院長。 |
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陳部長世凱：您交代之後，我就馬上處理，跟院長報告過了。 |
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傅委員崐萁：我是把現在的數字讓你知道。 |
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陳部長世凱：是。 |
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卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝。 |
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傅委員崐萁：2,600班到2016年，民進黨執政八年以後剩200班，一個這麼漂亮的城市變成200班。再過來，你們到底有沒有用國家的資源去疼惜這個地方？為什麼航空公司都在賺錢，EPS一年3塊、4塊、5塊，為什麼黃金航線沒有去綁國內應該有的責任線？因為這個航線是要養的，你把它養起來，未來它長大就不用你再養。 |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，陳部長有這個計畫，已經在著手實施了。 |
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傅委員崐萁：臺灣…… |
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陳部長世凱：我們將會有定期航班，禮拜一到禮拜天都會有。 |
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傅委員崐萁：本席很高興你這麼說。 |
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陳部長世凱：委員也很關心。 |
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傅委員崐萁：本席很高興你這麼說，但是我們再看一下海運。臺灣四周環海，竟然沒有一個比較明確的藍色公路可以繞著這麼漂亮的臺灣島，讓全世界的觀光客可以來臺灣看一下臺灣島有多美，麗娜輪在2016年都還有201班，到2021年就不玩了，政府沒有關心、沒有救助、沒有支持，一個這麼美麗的臺灣就在太平洋濱，竟然一個沿海的、繞島的藍色公路都沒有，這個就是我們的政府、大有為的政府，本席現在明確在國會殿堂正式跟院長討論這個事情，也正式告知，以後不要說你不知道，現在已經講過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
卓院長榮泰：交通部已經在計畫這個事情了…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
傅委員崐萁：接下來…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
卓院長榮泰：再跟委員說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
傅委員崐萁：好，謝謝，接下來怎麼做就多多拜託。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][1] |
我們看一下千萬的觀光大國，臺灣人民這麼善良，明明我們可以好好地做一個臺灣的觀光城市。現在本席是國民黨團總召集人，連要個資料你們都不敢給，觀光署現在不敢給。現在外客來臺的總觀光支出是多少？1到7月要不到資料，他們不給…… |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳部長世凱：報告委員，目前已經超過500萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
傅委員崐萁：超過500萬？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
陳部長世凱：已經超過500萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
傅委員崐萁：超過500萬，很好，了不起！我們看一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
陳部長世凱：不夠好、不夠好，要努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
傅委員崐萁：我們看一下這兩年亞洲我們周邊國家是怎麼樣，看一下2023年，臺灣648萬、香港3,400萬、泰國2,800萬、日本2,500萬、馬來西亞2,014萬、這麼彈丸之地的新加坡1,360萬、越南1,260萬、韓國1,100萬。臺灣648萬，我們的行政部門都生病了，臺灣有哪裡不好？臺灣比不上越南、比不上泰國、比不上新加坡、比不上馬來西亞、比不上韓國，這是我們的臺灣。好，這不用解釋，因為數字說明一切，這還是觀光署自己給的數字。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][1] |
我們就舉一個很簡單的，很高檔的、全世界都有的Club Med，在全世界有70個點，臺灣竟然沒有，一個Club Med都沒有，一個點都沒有，世界高檔的消費群來了，連一個基本像樣的國際級度假村臺灣都沒有。我們再看一下，連日本的石垣島，一個島只有四萬多人都有Club Med，4萬人的石垣島都有，而臺灣2,350萬人，所以我們的觀光在這8年到底做了什麼？我想院長我們還有很多可以切磋的機會，所以本席今天真的是非常誠意地一一來跟院長就教，也讓院長能夠知道這個過程。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][2] |
我們再看一下，陳部長，我相信您未來的表現可能有機會做得不錯…… |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
傅委員崐萁：但是我們還是要來看一下，到底新政府是用人唯親，還是用人唯才？我們從2016年開始看交通部長，賀陳旦先生少說也是土木工程，也當過交通局的局長；吳宏謀先生至少是環境工程的博士；林佳龍先生是耶魯的碩士、博士，至少他還當過臺中市的市長；再過來是王國材先生，他至少是交大運研所的博士，也當過高雄市政府的交通局長；李孟諺部長至少是荷蘭水利工程，有工程方面的專業，也當過臺南市政府水利局長；現在的陳世凱部長，一路是東海大學政治系、政治研究所、臺中市議員。交通多麼需要專業跟經驗，我們國家多麼重要的一個部會，你們用人了不起、很大膽…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
陳部長世凱：報告委員，可以讓我說明嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
傅委員崐萁：把過去用人的規範完全打破…… |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
陳部長世凱：過去……我可以報告嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
傅委員崐萁：本席沒有干涉卓院長的用人權，我們現在是尊重，但是我們睜大眼睛來看，下次可能就不是這樣，我們尊重你的用人權，但是你用人有沒有真正的專業？本席在這裡要先送你一張…… |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員一句話，從剛剛部長的幾句答話，你也知道他非常地深入…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
傅委員崐萁：我去搭火車…… |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
卓院長榮泰：他非常地努力在瞭解所有的交通狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
傅委員崐萁：2024年9月8號本席上了火車，已經上了火車，然後通知我說路又斷了，所以要請我下車，我們所有列車上的人通通下車了，然後花蓮火車站像難民營一樣，一堆人趕著退票、一堆人趕著不曉得怎麼樣離開花蓮，這些觀光客。來，本席送給你一下。本席再跟您探討一下，現在我們有三兆多的預算，今年比去年超編了很多，增加兩千八百多億，雖然我們還有很多機會碰面，但是本席還是要提醒你一下，提醒院長一下，這個廣宣費用、大內宣，就像2758號決議一樣，臺灣躲在自己的門裡面在玩大內宣，本席這樣子問啦，到底為什麼大內宣要多65.4%？院長可能要準備好說明為什麼要多這麼多錢；還有打詐說要有打詐生態系，哇！這不得了，這名字取得好，打詐生態系要73億，2022年蔡總統、蔡政府執政時打詐國家隊是14億，2023年打詐專責辦公室是13億，賴政府打詐生態系要73億！這是院長您宣布的，本席還不了解，但是看一下法務部的官網，關於我們現在詐騙的情況，108年詐騙案有3萬4,947件，到去年是22萬9,000件，這不得了，6倍啊！真的是了不起！越打越詐，錢越花越多，越打越詐，本席希望院長要斟酌。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][1] |
我們看一下台電，現在台電在我們賴政府下面到底會變成什麼樣的一個狀況？就看今年跟去年，去年的負債是2兆3,311億，今年負債2兆4,979億，多了1,600億，好，資本額膨脹了1,000億，因為政府拿錢給它，累積虧損4,349億，到底台電怎麼樣才不會倒？就是能源政策，我們一定會安排一個能源政策專報，讓院長到立法院來跟全國國人說清楚。我們看一下，三兆多的總預算，9,000億白花了，打水漂，2兆風力發電的大餅，國產化風力發電跳票，多了價差9,000億，多給人家9,000億，現在沒有了。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員，9,000億不是用在今年，那是好幾年的預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
傅委員崐萁：這是政府的合約，院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不要把9,000億跟3兆混在一起，這是連續預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
傅委員崐萁：政府的合約多花了9,000億。再過來…… |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這是從111年開始，不是今年編列9,000億，這個我們再度的說明都…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
傅委員崐萁：賴總統不只是那個9,000億，還有後面這一題，現在不得了啊，賴總統協助企業淨零轉型又要再9,000億，哇！這不得了啊！「光電錢坑政策！圖利光電廠商？」院長，今年我們還有很多次見面的機會，我們會嚴格地監督。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
卓院長榮泰：容許我清楚地跟大院說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
傅委員崐萁：還有至少4次的專報，我們會跟你長相左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝你給我這個機會。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
傅委員崐萁：院長，這完全沒有辦法迴避，都必須要面對全國國人，而且必須回答問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
傅委員崐萁：好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
主席：好，謝謝傅委員，謝謝卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][1] |
接下來我們請黃國昌委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
15 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-2-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
江啟臣 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
7 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-09-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1137501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1137501_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
報告事項 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1137501_00001 |
| 委員名稱 |
傅崐萁 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
11.501 |
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主席請院長請卓院長備詢副委員好您這陣子公私兩忙辛苦了自古有云國有明君清賦稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
41.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
71.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
博瑤益明包物語 修養生息人民愛物 天地同感今天賴總統當選就任應該是國政清明德責四方主委院長 帶領國政應該是繁榮昌盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
72.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
100.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
國泰民安院長就任已經4個月了從520到現在剛好4個月請問你有名包語感同身受有沒有看見人民的眼淚我們看一下從花蓮到地震到現在4月3號到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
102.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
129.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
人民的眼淚到今天已經五個多月五個月又十六天到今天為止花蓮的災民到現在還沒有辦法解決我們的國家在哪裡人民的苦難有沒有看見 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
131.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
160.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們看一下這次的大地震我在可能卓院長已經很遠離太久了再讓你複習一下好如同921的大地震如此的嚴重有這麼多的災民在這裡哀嚎這麼多的民宅毀損我們就比較一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
163.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
178.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
在2018年的0206花蓮大地震當時的受災戶是195戶現在的受災戶是10倍這個我想院長已經耳熟能詳了紅單黃單戶總共1949戶災民5000多人無家可歸五個多月過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
192.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
220.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
現在依然安身立命還是無漂流的扶貧不知道國家給他們的重振重建到底什麼時候才能夠完成院長我相信你到花蓮來看災難的時候是帶著誠意但是除了誠意以外是不是還應該有效率院長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
224.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
250.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
要有效率好到今天為止花蓮的震災救災到目前為止這個效率你滿意嗎花蓮的狀況副委員比任何人都清楚我記得我們每次到花蓮跟副委員一起不管是公開還是底下的談話我們都深深為那個地方的狀況我們都非常的憂慮這是真的也謝謝副委員一再一再的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
251.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
267.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但是光是從交通的安全問題每次大雨一來我們的交通部就費盡很多的心思我認為我們要長遠來處理這個事情這是一件另外我也知道現在花蓮包括呂樹葉有很多很多的陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
268.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
268.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
298.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
300.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請問院長 要不要遵守國會三黨共同簽署對人民的承諾 院會三讀通過 要不要執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
323.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
351.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
立法院監督行政院對立法院的各項決議我們當然是本的憲法的職責充分的尊重那執行的過程我們會考量更多的因素但是無論如何都會向立法院就執行面來做報告好等下再跟您探討一下台南大地震跟花蓮大地震看一下2016年台南大地震 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
353.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
382.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
復幹大樓重建每戶最高400萬元花蓮大地震8年以後每戶重建紅丹戶屋島一戶最多補助30坪一坪12萬360萬面對嚴重的天災一樣是地震在臺南跟花蓮卻有大不同而且現在我們再看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
385.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
407.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
在當時這個臺南是8年前花蓮是8年後這8年發生了什麼事情花蓮的青年住宅一平8點47萬去絕標8點47萬去絕標 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
416.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
444.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
而內政部在花蓮這兩年絕標的中美好市社會住宅一坪16.96萬絕標然後美倫安居18.34萬絕標一樣的房子花蓮的青年住宅縣政府發包的是有國家認證耐政標章還得到行政院的磐石獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
445.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
475.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
已經蓋好了發包一瓶是8.47萬現在內政部發包的這兩年發包的是16.96萬跟18.34萬物價漲了一倍多2016年台南一戶是補助400萬現在今年花林一戶是補助360萬所以立法院所通過的決議是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
478.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
501.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
7月16號的主決議是希望趕快把災民的重建能夠迅速來完成因為我們的紅單戶修建的部分整建的部分補助8成5但是紅單戶屋倒了要拆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
503.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
532.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
到現在還沒有一個能夠讓他們安身立命清楚的一個方式所以由立法院三黨共同簽署補助八成五現在興建成本的八成五而且就很簡單內政部自己的絕標價格在花蓮的中美好市社會住宅北龍安居社會住宅現在是18萬18萬4千塊一坪補助八成五盡快讓人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
533.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
559.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
安身立命的事能夠解決本席再強調一下從4月3號到現在已經5個多月了院長據聞本席追內政部之後內政部在9月11號發文到行政院希望行政院趕快就相關的辦法來核定院長什麼時候可以核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
560.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
579.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
剛剛跟委員報告我們在9月16號已經經由這個國發會現在在審議當中我們會緊述的緊述是什麼時候緊述我看國發會安排的時辰那不會讓委員失望是面對災民不會讓花蓮的鄉親失望是面對災民欸不會讓花蓮的鄉親失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
581.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
582.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
院長本期讓你看一下2018年的地震我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
610.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
635.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
2018年2月6號大地震花蓮我們4月26號花蓮縣政府重建的安心宅就動工經過所有在民的協調所有社會慈善資源的募集中央政府的支持加在民的溝通加上全國的招商在公開說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
638.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
667.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在規劃設計發包然後動工2個月20天2018年2月6號的地震2018年4月26號縣政府就動工了1年多2年完工抗八旗地震有耐震標章又是綠建築本席在這裡請教現在已經5個多月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
669.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
696.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還要經過立法院三黨共事達成主決議院會通過現在還在等行政院有沒有感同身受民包當然有本席今天聽到你說了謝謝院長說你會盡快本席在等看您什麼時候把立法院的主決議能夠來落實讓這些災民 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
699.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
727.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他們不是有政府的承諾補助以後還要開說明會還要開重建會議還要去招商還要去發包還要等到動工動工以後還要等到完工而且這一次院長這不是以前的12樓這次都是15樓16樓密集的集合式高層住宅這個重建之路啊非常的漫長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
729.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
758.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以院長本席相信再一次講您擔任閣奎應該是繁榮昌盛國泰民安民眾的苦難民眾的眼淚人民的眼淚政府的大官到底有沒有看見有沒有感同身受本席就恭候看院會什麼時候核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
759.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
786.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
到底我們還要等多久再過來這次地震的災民不只是只有受災戶還有這麼多的我們產業包括觀光包括農業花東的人民還在走這種道路本席跟你介紹一下現在的蘇華公路在清朝啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
788.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
815.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
叫做蘇花古道在日據時代叫做臨海道路現在全國大概只有花東人民還比照孟加拉人民我們是一個已開發國家一個國家還有兩種人民我們還在走百年前的蘇花古道下個雨就灘掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
820.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
846.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
請問一下院長今年到現在你知道花蓮成為孤島幾次了 院長報告委員這是我們共同關切的問題我們現在成為孤島幾次了每次大雨來他就會交通中斷甚至我們在台北感受不到的時候他也會交通中斷 院長你不曉得本席提醒你一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
848.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
876.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
地震後到今天有八次的鐵公路的中斷八年成為孤島八次這是台灣這塊土地上的人民啊大陸三級城市都不如啊八次鐵公路中斷八年成為孤島請問一下我們說好的這些告警系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
878.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
899.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
從馬政府時代就通過的預算這8年來執行到現在我們的告警系統一直在出包我們的告警系統我們的藍絲網到底在哪裡怎麼樣能夠把這些石頭攔住怎麼樣能夠紓解請問一下院長最基本的藍絲網什麼時候可以做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
900.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
921.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好跟委員報告我們跟大自然的競爭就是這個樣子要跟他和平相處所以每次交通中斷我們就啟動海運啟動空運我們也拜託民航的業者再加強告警的系統自從上市我們發現鐵路的告警系統不足之外我們也已經要求鐵路局要全面的加強什麼叫藍絲系統你看一下這是最簡單的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
930.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
935.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
到底這條路什麼時候可以讓人民安全回家 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
938.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
967.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委員我跟你說我跟你報告我在當地我們在開現場說明的時候這個路就是這樣子他石頭還在下來我非常清楚包括居民鄉民包括工程人員的安全的問題我跟你一樣感同身受那至於工程怎麼樣進行怎麼樣完成是不是容許我們新的交通部長陳部長跟你說明一下他的了解待會又輪到他不要急待會輪到他不要急現在是這樣子 院長這是一個最基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
968.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
981.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
一個藍石網對公路也好對鐵路我現在本席都沒有講到說明隧道還是傾斜鋼板現在一個最基本的一個藍石網 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
983.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1008.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
至少你整條路 什麼地方 會攤下來的地方如果公路總局不知道 交通部不知道那個就是完全跟人民是脫節的交通部如果知道的話 請告訴人民這些地方你要怎麼做 因為計畫要馬上出來你可以先說到本席來 今天本席沒有要問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1010.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1039.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
告警系統做了這麼多年到現在我們看一下那鐵路又出軌告警系統竟然還會讓鐵路出軌本需要再讓你瞭解一下喔院長為什麼要我們這麼沉重的來討論這個問題人民要怎麼活下去啊我們的觀光做成什麼樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1041.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1069.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
花蓮就兩大產業 第一個叫觀光產業 第二個叫做農業觀光產業 現在我們住房率暑假5%因為路又斷了包委員 交通部其實很努力在做補助啦最慘的暑假 最慘的暑假 5%院長 您可能還沒有清楚狀況 本席再說明一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1071.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1092.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個5%代表什麼意思暑假應該是百分之百住房的現在5%是什麼意思花蓮的觀光產業現在代售的民宿要sale的民宿將近1000家請問員工的薪水要不要付請問營養的貸款要不要付 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1095.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1123.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這是系統性的風暴都要發生的我剛剛在施政報告都有提到這兩部分但是我們沒有看到到底具體的作為而且有效的作為今天政府不是說我有做是你做的有沒有效國家龐大的資源都在你手上做的有沒有效能不能夠把災民救出來這才是重點啦不能說我有做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1124.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1152.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
但是做不到啊沒有做到更快更多更好我當然願意全力的來檢討那我們是全力在做但是有很多自然的狀況很阻礙我們各種進展你剛剛說自然的狀況那我們現在講我們現有的狀況這不是大自然因素造成的我們看一下現在台北花蓮的班機我們看一下班機我請問一下院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1154.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1181.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
班機你們到底是把花蓮看作什麼樣的一個地方一個觀光的城市過去到2016年臺北花蓮2600班次一年現在200多班花蓮機場是全國最漂亮的機場我們交通部是睡著了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1182.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1211.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
報告委員陳部長已經解決解決這個問題了還有方法有時辰有沒有解決你找時間再來跟我說我今天是溫院長我是把現在的數字讓你知道好的謝謝2600班到2016年民進黨執政8年後剩200班一個這麼漂亮的城市變成200班再過來你們到底有沒有國家的資源去騰騎這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1212.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1236.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
為什麼航空公司都在賺錢EPS3塊4塊5塊一年為什麼黃金航線沒有去綁國內應該有的責任線因為這個航線是要養的你把它養起來未來它長大了就不用你再養陳部長有這個計畫已經在什麼時候實施了我們將會有定期航班禮拜一到禮拜天都會有委員也很高興你這麼說但是我們再看 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1241.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1265.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們再看一下海運齁臺灣四周環海竟然沒有一個比較明確的一個藍色公路可以繞著這麼漂亮的臺灣島讓全世界的觀光客可以來臺灣看一下臺灣島有多美你看一下一個利納倫201到2016年都還201班 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1273.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1289.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
政府沒有關心沒有救助沒有支持一個這麼美麗的臺灣就在太平洋冰既然一個沿海的漏島的藍色公路都沒有這個就是我們的政府大有為的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1291.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1320.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
本席現在有明確在國會殿堂正式正式跟院長討論這個事情也正式告知以後不要說你不知道現在已經講過了交通部已經在計畫這個事情了再跟委員說接下來怎麼做接下來怎麼做就多多拜託我們看一下我們的千萬的觀光大國臺灣人民這麼善良 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1321.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1348.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
明明我們可以好好的做一個觀光的台灣的一個觀光的城市現在 院長我們今天要資料 等於是啊國民黨團總召集人 連要資料都不敢給啊觀光署現在不敢給啊現在啊 外客來台啊總觀光支出是多少 一到七月他們要不到資料不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1350.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1361.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
報告委員目前已經超過500萬目前超過500萬很好了不起我們看一下這兩年亞洲我們周邊國家是怎麼樣看一下2023年台灣648萬香港3400萬泰國2800萬日本2500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1374.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1400.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
馬來西亞2014萬新加坡這麼蛋丸之力的新加坡1360萬越南1260萬韓國1100萬台灣648萬我們的行政部門都生病了台灣有哪裡不好台灣比不上越南比不上泰國比不上新加坡比不上馬來西亞比不上韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1403.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1431.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這是我們的臺灣這不用解釋因為這數字說明切這還是觀光署自己給的數字我們就取一個很簡單的很高檔的全世界都有的climate那全世界有70個點臺灣竟然沒有一個climate都沒有一個點都沒有世界高檔的消費群來的一個基本像樣的國際級的一個度假村臺灣都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1432.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1461.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們再看一下連日本的一個石碗島一個島只有4萬多人都有climbing4萬人的石碗島都有臺灣2千3萬人所以我們的觀光這8年到底做了什麼所以我想院長我們還有很多可以切磋的機會所以本席今天真的是非常誠意的一一來跟院長就教也讓所有院長能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1462.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1488.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們再看一下陳部長我相信您未來的表現可能有機會做得不錯但是我們還是要來看一下到底新政府是用人為親還是用人為財我們從2016年開始看交通部長賀成旦先生少數也是土木工程也當過交通局的局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1490.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1499.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
吳宏謀先生﹑環境工程博士﹑林佳龍先生﹑耶魯碩士﹑台中市市長王國才先生﹑交大運營所博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1512.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1536.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
也當過高雄市政府的交通局長李孟彥部長至少是河南水利工程方面的專業也當過台南市政府水利局長現在的陳世凱部長一路東海大學政治系政治研究所臺中市議員交通是有多麼的專業跟經驗的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1540.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1568.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們國家多麼重要一個部會你們用人了不起很大膽把過去用人的規範完全打破本席沒有干涉左院長的用人權我們現在是尊重但是我們用睜大眼睛來看下次可能就不是這樣我們尊重你的用人權但是用人有沒有真正的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1570.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1598.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
本席在這裡要先送你一張報告我一句話從剛剛部長的幾句答話你也知道他非常的深入阿他非常的努力在了解所有的交通狀況2024年9月8號本席上了火車阿已經上了火車然後通知我說阿路又斷了所以阿要請我下車我們全車所有列車上的人通通下車了然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1599.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1599.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
發言委員：傅崐萁 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1630.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1658.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
本席現在跟您探討一下現在我們有3兆多的預算今年比去年超編了很多增加2800多億雖然我們還有很多機會碰面但是本席還是要提醒你一下提醒院長一下這個廣宣費用大內宣就像2758號一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1660.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1684.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
臺灣躲在自己門裡面在玩大內宣本席這樣子啦齁到底為什麼大內宣要多65.4%院長可能要準備齁是為什麼要多這麼多錢還要打炸所有打炸生態系哇這不得了這名字取得齁打炸生態系要73億齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1688.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1710.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
2022年蔡總統蔡政府是14億打詐國家隊2023年打詐專責辦公室13億賴政府打詐生態系要73億這是院長您宣布的本席還不了解但是呢看一下這個法務部的官網齁我們現在詐騙的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1714.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1741.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
108年詐騙案有34947件到去年229000件這不得了6倍真的是了不起越打越炸錢越花越多越打越炸本席希望 院長你要斟酌我們看一下台電現在台電到底會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1743.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1755.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們賴政府下面會變成什麼樣的一個狀況就看今年跟去年去年的負債兩兆3311億今年負債兩兆4979億多了1600億好資本額膨脹了1000億因為政府拿錢給他累積虧損4349億到底台電怎麼樣才不會倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1769.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1792.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
就是能源政策我們一定會安排一個能源政策讓院長到立法院來跟全國國人來說清楚我們光看一下3兆3兆多的總預算我們看一下9千億白花打水漂2兆風力發電的大餅國產化風力發電跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1793.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1811.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
多的價差9千億多給人家9千億現在沒有了委員9千億不是用在今年吶那是好幾年的預算吶這是政府的合約院長政府的合約那是連續預算那是111年開始不是今年淹滅9千億這個我們再度的說明都賴總統不是那個9千億還有後面這一題吼現在不得了啊賴總統協助企業進一轉型要再9千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1824.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1832.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
哇 這不得了光電乾坑政策 圖利光電廠商 院長今年我們還有很多次見面的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1854.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1854.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好 謝謝傅委員 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-09-20T10:00:00+08:00 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:32:58 - 15:03:53 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢） |
| IVOD_ID |
154857 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154857 |
| 日期 |
2024-09-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-1 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第1次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-09-20T14:32:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-09-20T15:03:53+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |