| IVOD_ID |
154561 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154561 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-32 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第32次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
32 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第32次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-08T10:28:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-08T10:38:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/80b8605eb635256a239f904b54e86d29ce876c6524d02f36cf84bbc3b5148b93de903409df43b7935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:28:34 - 10:38:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第32次全體委員會議（變更議程）（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、大陸委員會、文化部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部調查局報告「近期中共對台滲透作為樣態與因應」，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
443 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（10時28分）謝謝主席，有請國安局蔡局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請蔡局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：蔡局長你好。我請教一下，看到最近發生兩件事情，澎湖的漁民、漁船進入大陸海域被扣了，然後基隆的漁船到日本奄美大島附近捕魚也被扣了，請問你，這兩件事情是不是都是我們的漁民越界到他們的領海裡面？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，第一個案例是對岸的案例，大進滿88號，它確實是在對岸的十二浬內作業時…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：就在他的領海？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，確實是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：那日本呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
蔡局長明彥：日本這案例主要是在我們暫定執法線以東大概1.5浬，不在我們的暫定執法線之內，那這暫定執法線是根據…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：以東算不算他的領海？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
蔡局長明彥：不是領海，就是不是我們的執法範圍，這是根據2013年臺日漁業協定…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以他可以執法？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，它不在2013年臺日漁業協定中我們的管轄範圍，所以造成它是在…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個也沒有一條線，有時候漁民就超過一點點，不是臺日關係很好嗎？怎麼日本這麼兇？把他扣了還要處罰一百二十幾萬，然後才放船、放人，這對我們很不好吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，但還是要依照相關的作業規定來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以日本的處罰你接受？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
蔡局長明彥：不是接不接受問題，這是由我們外事單位來跟日方協調之後所採取的…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以這樣的結果你們滿意？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們尊重相關單位處理的狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：說半天臺日關係好，好到哪裡去？請問接近大陸領海要罰多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，這要看它的…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：罰多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
蔡局長明彥：要看它的樣態才能夠決定到底罰則要多高。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天講出一個數字，說要罰22.5萬，有沒有這個數字？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，這都是非正式管道在傳播的，還是要看他正式針對這個案例…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：會不會有刑罰？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這我們沒有辦法替中國的執法單位來回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是按照它的國內法，闖進來有沒有刑法的問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，有各種裁罰的樣態。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在外界看到的是，自蔡英文政府、賴清德政府，這個政府抗中有餘、保臺不足！跟對岸一天到晚撞，撞的結果，我們漁民的權益都受損！這個東西稍微偏一點點，日本喊打喊殺，花了這麼多錢，老百姓看了這樣子就變成……然後我們對日本一句話都不敢吭，看到日本跪下去，看到中國大陸就哇哇哇地很大聲！但是大家看，你有本事就把老共的船趕走啊！也沒有，都是軟腳蝦！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：你聽我講完，實際上我們的政府面對基層漁民受到委屈，我們的表現是道地的軟腳蝦，然後對大陸像大聲公，要獲取政治利益，對日本就跪下去、「惦惦」，到現在為止。可憐啦！可憐啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
蔡局長明彥：不過這個部分還是要看事發……案子發生的海域狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：事實上就如此，你剛剛已經講了。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，要看海域的狀況，假如是在…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：去大陸就進入人家的領海了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，假如是在我們自己的執法水域，海巡署一定會全力護漁；但假如是出了我們的執法水域的話，那當然就要透過外事單位…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：出一點點…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
蔡局長明彥：陸委會進行相關的協商。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：日本那個一點點，難道不用跟他說一下？說臺日關係這麼好，結果都說假的，對不對？原來過去…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，這還是要依照2013年…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是這回事啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
蔡局長明彥：依照2013年臺日漁業協議的…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：是啊！你要根據這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，作為依…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：日本做的，你完全同意啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
蔡局長明彥：以作為依據。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：胳膊向外彎，怎麼會這個樣子呢？好歹你也罵一下日本人，都不敢罵日本人、都惦惦，罵大陸罵好大聲，結果越罵大陸，漁民越遭殃。請陸委會梁副主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這個處理過程中沒有謾罵，都還是理性地在處理…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：都是謾罵，怎麼沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這要…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：換到大陸就是……你沒有謾罵別人，綠營的人謾罵啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][1] |
不錯，看你現在有笑容，前一陣子都沒有笑容。梁副主委，鄭文燦算不算知中派？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：他對大陸的事情確實蠻瞭解的。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：他算不算海基會裡面的鴿派？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：鴿派、鷹派都是在政府的政策方針之下做事，所以我不覺得有什麼鴿派、鷹派之分。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：胡歌來臺灣，是不是背後他牽線的？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：不是。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：這個不是。胡歌來臺，這個是他們送函件到陸委會，陸委會這邊核定的。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以是你核定的？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：其中之一。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是你有簽字，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：應該是先到文化部，自文化部過來陸委會。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以胡歌能夠來，你有功勞？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：我不會說是我的功勞。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：胡歌來臺灣，對兩岸是好事吧！不然你怎麼會簽字！ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
梁副主任委員文傑：對正常的交流我們都歡迎。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在看起來就鄭文燦，外面的解讀是被賴清德追殺。這個看起來，海基會大概來講的話本來就沒什麼功能，老實講陸委會也沒什麼功能，你們一直強調，這個賴清德講過一遍就可以了，一直講、一直講，新兩國論一直講，說到最後，結果是把人民拿去撞，你知道嗎？撞、撞、撞，兩岸大人吵架，受殃的是人民耶！漁民受殃、我們基層的普羅大眾受殃、旅遊業受殃、老百姓受殃！老百姓、旅遊業都希望生意能夠做得成，有生意可以賺，臺灣人的願望沒有很大，安居樂業平安過日子，賺一點小錢，就這樣子而已啊！你們大人在那裡吵架，吵到商機都沒有了。海基會鄭文燦下來之後，其實外界對兩岸關係更悲觀啦！這個你不要回答了，你下去好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][1] |
我再請教蔡局長，從最近種種看來，弄了半天，他們的飛機愛過來就過來、他們的船愛過來就過來、他們的人愛過來就直接上淡水碼頭。過去至少兩岸有一個默契，兩岸互不承認主權、互不否認治權，我們中華民國的有效治理區域臺、澎、金，馬，大陸是不否定的，現在等於否定了，他們登船到我們的漁船上面去扣人、扣船，很可怕！請問你，這個是不是大陸不承認我們的治權、是不是已經發生了？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
蔡局長明彥：另外有一個面向要注意的是，中國大陸在區域裡面，不管是軍事或海上的灰色地帶的擴張也越來越積極、越來越強烈。所以不只委員剛剛所提到的臺海地區，東海、南海都有類似的狀況，也包括登檢或毆打菲律賓相關的官士兵，因此這樣的整體趨勢我們也要列入安全環境的評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：你沒有回答我的問題！我的問題是：它是不是現在已經否認中華民國的有效治理區域？這個事情有沒有否認？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這個我沒有辦法替中華人民共和國政府回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：它的行為就是否認啊！他這個行為就是否認了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們會來注意這樣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你，這個行為是不是否認？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們會來注意這樣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要大聲抗議，對不對？說我們不爽，你這樣子，我們有效統治、有效治理臺澎金馬，為什麼隨便就扣船，隨便就上來？要大聲講話啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們上次也呼籲，兩岸在處理類似的事件應該要累積善意…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：另外一個小問題，到底臺灣有沒有第五縱隊？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這部分我已經說明過，因為第五縱隊不是法律用語。假如中共有對臺滲透違反法律要件的話，我們會積極處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：其實第五縱隊就是沒有暴露的間諜，對不對？這叫第五縱隊。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，一般學術上是有這樣的定義沒有錯，而我們在法律上要依法處理…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：有沒有這些人嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，只要有違反法律要件的我們就會偵辦，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：有多少人？有幾十萬人嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，這是媒體的猜測。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，這是民進黨立委講的，什麼「媒體的猜測」！ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，這是外界的猜測。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：你都不敢回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，我們已經有積極在偵辦了，去年到現在辦了8個案…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：最後一個小問題，媒體盯梢這件事情，到底有沒有這回事？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
蔡局長明彥：剛剛說明過了，有相關的資訊我們已經移送調查局偵辦，那檢方因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：確實有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
蔡局長明彥：有相關的情資已經移送調查局偵辦，在偵辦當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：確實有嗎？有這件事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
蔡局長明彥：有得到情資。有得到情資，不過…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
賴委員士葆：喔！那你應該要搜索。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
蔡局長明彥：國安局沒有司法調查權，所以我們就移送調查局偵辦。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
賴委員士葆：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
主席：謝謝。接下來請林憶君委員上台質詢。待會兒張啓楷委質詢完畢，我們休息5分鐘。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
100 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-32 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
牛煦庭 |
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47 |
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2024-07-08 |
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1137201 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第32次全體委員會議紀錄 |
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邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、大陸委員會、文化部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部調查局報告
「近期中共對台滲透作為樣態與因應」，並備質詢 |
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局的蔡局長請蔡局長好謝謝主席賴委員好你好我請教一下這個看到最近發生兩件的事情澎湖的漁民漁船進去大陸被扣了然後基隆 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
請問這兩件事情是不是都是我們越界到他們的領海裡面,是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
對,就大概在第一個案例是對岸的這個案例,大禁板88號,那它確實是在對岸的12海里內作業的時候。就它在臨海?對,確實是。那在日本呢?對,日本這個案例它主要是在我們暫定執法線以東,大概1.5海里,不在我們的暫定執法線之內。那這個暫定執法線是根據臺北...以東算不算它的臨海? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.246 |
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不是臨海就是執法不是我們的執法範圍因為這是根據2013年的所以他可以執法對根據他不在我們2013年台日漁業協定的我們的管轄範圍對所以造成他是在這個有時候你也沒有一條線有時候愚民就超過一點點阿不是台日關係很好嗎阿怎麼日本這麼兇把他扣了還要處罰一百二十幾萬然後再放船放人這東西對我們很不好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.698 |
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115.553 |
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對,但還是要依照相關的作業的規定來處理所以日本的處罰,你接受?不是接不接受問題,這是由我們外事單位來跟日方協調之後所採取的所以,這樣的結果你們滿意?我們尊重相關單位的處理的一個說一波台日關係好,到哪裡去?大陸請問,大陸要花多少錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
現在講出一個數字說花22.5萬有沒有這個數字會不會有刑法 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
160.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這我們沒有辦法替中國的執法單位來回答但是按照他的國內法闖進來有沒有刑法的問題有刑法的問題有各種的裁法的現在外界看到的是這個政府從蔡英文政府賴清德政府抗中有餘啊保台不足啊然後跟對岸一天到晚撞了七國我們的漁民權利都受損了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
174.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這東西稍微便宜一點點,日本喊打喊殺,花了這麼多錢,這個老百姓看了這個樣子就變成,然後呢,我們對日本一句話都不肯吭,看到日本跪下去,看到中華大陸,哇哇哇,很大聲,但是呢,大家看啊,這樣有資料你就跟老公準括照啊,沒有! |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
都是軟腳蝦實際上你聽我講話實際上我們的政府面對我們的漁民受到委屈 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
208.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們的基層的愚民受到委屈我們的表現到底亂講啥然後呢對大陸就大成功要獲取政治利益對日本就跪下去點點到現在為止可憐啊可憐啊這個部分還是要看事發案子他的發生的海域狀況沒有要看海域的狀況這大陸就進入人家的領海了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
假如是在我們自己的執法水域．我們的海巡署一定會全力的賦予．但是假如是出了我們的執法水域的話．那當然就要透過外事的．阿你出一點點而已．日本那個一點點．我再講一下說．台日關係怎麼好．結果都說假的啊．原來關係還不是這回事啊．是啊 你要根據這個．所以日本組織你完全同意啊． |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
國泊向外,我們怎麼會這個樣子呢?好歹你也罵一下日本都不敢罵日本了,點志氣,罵大陸罵好大聲,結果大陸越罵,漁民越遭殃,請入會會的兩位主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
266.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
281.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這處理過程都沒有謾罵,都還是理性的在...都是謾罵,怎麼沒有呢?都把那些,叛到大陸就是你沒有謾罵,別人謾罵,綠營的人謾罵,這個不錯啊,最近現在有笑容,前一陣子都沒有笑容啊,這個,來,梁副主委,鄭文燦算不算?鄭之中派算不算? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他對大陸的事情確實蠻了解的他算不算海基位裡面的鴿派鴿派鷹派都是在政府的政策方針之下做事的所以我不覺得有什麼鴿派鷹派之分胡格來台灣是不是背後他牽線的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不是 這個不是虎哥來台這個是他們送寒箭到陸委會那陸委會這邊來核定的所以是你核定的其中之一就是你有簽字嘛應該是先到文化部文化部過來陸委會所以虎哥能夠來你有功勞我不會說是我的功勞虎哥來台灣對兩岸是好事吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
345.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們對正常的交流我們都歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
347.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
367.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在看起來整門串外面的解讀是被賴清德追殺這個看起來海基會大概來講本來就沒什麼功能老實講陸委會沒什麼功能你會一直強調賴清德講過一遍就三天口口講口口講新兩國論口口講講到尾了結果是把人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
374.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
394.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
提起龍你知道嗎 撞撞撞兩岸大人吵架 受殃的是人民 漁民受殃我們的基層普羅大眾受殃 旅遊業受殃老百姓受殃 老百姓旅遊業都希望 省裡能夠做得成無形旅遊團 台灣人的願望沒有很大啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
395.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
396.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
從最近的總總看來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
423.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們不斷的你說錄了半天他飛機愛過來就過來他船愛過來就過來他人愛過來就直接上了要淡水的碼頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
432.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
454.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
過去最少兩岸有一個默契兩岸互不承認主權互不否認治權我們中華民國的有效治理區域台澎金馬大陸是不否定的現在等於否定了他登船登我們的漁船上面去扣人扣船 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
455.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
461.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
很可怕請問你這個是不是大陸不承認我們的治權是不是已經發生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
463.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
492.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這另外有一個面向要注意的是中國大陸在區域裡面不管是軍事或海上的灰色地帶擴張也越來越積極、越來越強烈所以不只委員剛所提到的台海地區東海、南海都有類似的狀況也包括燈檢或去毆打那個菲律賓的相關的官士兵所以這樣的整體的趨勢我們要列入安全環境的維護你沒有回答問題我的問題是他有沒有現在已經否認中華民國的有效治理區域這個事情有沒有否認 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
492.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
499.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那這個我沒有辦法替中華人民共和國政府來回答那這行為就是否認啊!那這行為就是否認啊!我沒有來注意這樣你這個行為是不是否認?我沒有來注意這樣你要大聲抗議啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
505.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
516.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們不爽啊你這樣子我們有效的統治這個有效的治理太本金馬為什麼隨便就扣船隨便就上來我們上次也呼籲兩岸在處理類似的事件應該要累積另外一個小問題到底台灣有沒有第五裝隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
523.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
545.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這部分我已經有說明過,因為第五中隊不是法律用語,那假如有中共對台滲透違反法律要件的話,我們會積極地...其實第五中隊就是沒有暴露的間諜嘛,對不對?這叫第五中隊?對,一般學術上是有這樣的定義,沒有錯。但我們在法律上要依法來處理。阿有沒有這些人嗎?有沒有這些人?對,只要有違反法律要件的我們就會偵辦。阿有多少人?有幾十萬人嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
547.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
547.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
媒體盯哨這件事情到底有沒有這回事? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
563.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
563.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
接下來請林益君委員上台諮詢 |