| IVOD_ID |
154538 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154538 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第21次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期第21次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-05T14:30:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-05T14:46:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4edc3fae9cb29e97723bb242a272b869412a25d0aa7d1a498aaf41c1f2943837bf08d13ba3372ad95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:30:38 - 14:46:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。
二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
4 |
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羅委員智強：（14時30分）副院長，有請行政院長。 |
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主席：請卓院長備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：羅委員好。 |
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羅委員智強：卓院長，在我開始正式質詢之前，我想先為我們的行政團隊（你的行政團隊）抱個屈，我覺得行政團隊昨天受到很大的羞辱，身為行政院長，你應該幫他們講講話。你知道昨天發生了什麼事嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：你說院內的事嗎？ |
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羅委員智強：對啊！立法院發生什麼事？立法院癱瘓了四個委員會啊！你知道哪四個委員會被癱瘓嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：這我不清楚。 |
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羅委員智強：你不清楚？院長，不會吧？行政、立法，你今天要對立法院負責，你的官員們在立法院基本上枯坐一整天，被癱瘓了四個委員會你都不知道？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我不知道，我尊重院內在開會…… |
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羅委員智強：你的肩膀還真是夠寬，連這麼重要的事都不知道，被癱瘓了內政、經濟、外交及國防委員會，還有司法及法制委員會，你知道為什麼被癱瘓嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：開會不順利是不是？ |
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羅委員智強：開會不順利啊？是因為民進黨所有的立法委員跑去霸占內政委員會的主席臺，當然民進黨的委員有一些政治法案上的立場不同，愛霸占就霸占，這也是民進黨的傳統跟慣例，這個就算了…… |
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卓院長榮泰：不一定。 |
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羅委員智強：這就算了。昨天就發生了！你還說不一定，昨天叫一定！在你的字典叫不一定，在昨天叫一定！我今天要告訴你，民進黨的囂張跟跋扈在哪裡，你知道嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：不知道。 |
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羅委員智強：如果因為選罷法修正案，你不高興你不爽，你要把內政委員會癱瘓，那我想請問你，昨天有外交及國防委員會、NCC、法務部，還有調查局的所有單位，對不對？通傳會的單位，為什麼連外交及國防委員會也要被癱瘓掉？講個道理出來嘛！我想請教，你們的閣員們在那邊因為王定宇落跑，不主持會議，結果搞到所有官員枯坐在那邊，你不為他們覺得委屈嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們還是尊重院內開會的秩序跟…… |
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羅委員智強：不只是外交及國防委員會，經濟委員會也是一樣…… |
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卓院長榮泰：我們的部會首長不管哪一天都有很多公務在進行…… |
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羅委員智強：還有包括司法及法制委員會也是一樣…… |
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卓院長榮泰：我們部會首長每一天都有很多公務在進行…… |
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羅委員智強：我要在這邊跟大家說、跟院長說一件事情，不管你們講任何政治主張，你就是要癱瘓內政委員會，其實這三個委員會都不用陪葬，可是民進黨就是傳統囂張跋扈的文化嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
卓院長榮泰：你不能這樣講…… |
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羅委員智強：我今天要癱瘓內政委員會，連當召委的王定宇都可以落跑，當召委的鍾佳濱可以落跑，當召委的邱議瑩可以落跑，落跑三人組嗎？然後讓官員們浪費時間坐在那個地方，官員很辛苦啊！我昨天就問我們法務部次長，洗錢防制法重不重要，請問院長？ |
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卓院長榮泰：或許委員應該問問他們三位召委…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
羅委員智強：我現在想問你，洗錢防制法重不重要嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
卓院長榮泰：任何法案只要行政院送來或是立法院…… |
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羅委員智強：對嘛！都重要嘛！ |
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卓院長榮泰：都是重要的。 |
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羅委員智強：很好，態度很正確啊！我也相信那時候出席的法務部次長對於洗錢防制法一定準備很充分啊！可是我上去質詢，沒有主席，無法質詢，所以他不能上來回答。 |
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卓院長榮泰：我是建議委員問一問幾位召委…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
羅委員智強：這就是今天我要告訴你，回頭還是這句話，你民進黨要癱瘓內政委員會，不要連累行政團隊的閣員，我今天站在這裡是因為你不願意幫他們抱屈，我幫他們抱屈啊！他們不是傀儡，也不是道具，不是傀儡坐在那個地方，隨便你民進黨立法院黨團糟蹋啦！三個召委…… |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，該抱屈的我會抱屈啦，但昨天的狀況…… |
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羅委員智強：但你就沒有嘛！我知道你啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：請委員問一下昨天三位召委，他們為什麼不主持會議…… |
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羅委員智強：你在民進黨裡面處境困難，我知道，也瞭解，也同情你啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：問一下委員會召委，不應該問我啊！不應該問我啊！該抱屈的我會抱屈…… |
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羅委員智強：所以你也不敢幫你的行政團隊抱屈啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
卓院長榮泰：該抱屈的我會抱屈。 |
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羅委員智強：今天你們在這邊，那3個無關的委員會被癱瘓掉，你也不敢講話啦！我知道你啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：他們還是每天有很多工作要進行。 |
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羅委員智強：沒關係，這個問題我問完了，我只是一個結論，很簡單…… |
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卓院長榮泰：他們還是很忙的。 |
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羅委員智強：我只是一個結論，很簡單，民進黨就是惡霸啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：不是啦！ |
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羅委員智強：囂張啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：不是啦！委員這樣…… |
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羅委員智強：就是惡霸、囂張啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：這樣講話有違質詢的態度，不好啦！ |
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羅委員智強：民進黨要癱瘓內政委員會，缺3個召委嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：不是這樣子啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
羅委員智強：請問那3個召委在昨天的責任是什麼？ |
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卓院長榮泰：委員，你去問問他們3個召委…… |
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羅委員智強：你也當過立法委員喔！ |
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卓院長榮泰：我曾經。 |
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羅委員智強：對啊！你也曾經當過立法委員啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：但是我也不會這樣子質詢啦！ |
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羅委員智強：請問召委的責任是什麼？ |
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卓院長榮泰：就是…… |
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羅委員智強：召委的責任就是召集、主持會議、安排議程，讓官員來備詢啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：把公務做好，誠實回答委員的質詢。 |
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羅委員智強：對啊！所以我還是那個結論，很簡單，我也知道你也不敢講什麼啦！我可以體諒你啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：這件事情我無法講什麼。 |
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羅委員智強：但是我就要講，很簡單…… |
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卓院長榮泰：這件事情我無法講…… |
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羅委員智強：民進黨昨天做出最壞的示範，沒有討論，沒有民主，連開會都被罷掉、癱瘓掉，民主什麼啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：委員剛剛講的那句話很正確…… |
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羅委員智強：每天喊民主！ |
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卓院長榮泰：沒有討論，沒有民主，這句話很好。 |
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羅委員智強：我想請教你下一個問題，在下一個問題之前，我先講一下，我自己分享一些對臺灣民主發展的一些看法。 |
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卓院長榮泰：好。 |
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羅委員智強：我在2006年加入國民黨的，事實上，在2000年之前、第一次政黨輪替之前，我不喜歡當時的國民黨，原因有兩個，第一個，當時威權時代的國民黨箝制新聞自由；第二個，當時國民黨一黨獨大，缺乏制衡。事實上，在2000年第一次政黨輪替之前，我也從來沒有投票給國民黨過，1998年高雄市市長選舉，我還投給謝長廷，不是因為我很喜歡謝長廷，單純就是因為我覺得國民黨權力太大，缺乏制衡，我覺得應該要讓民進黨可以得到一些權力來制衡這個獨大的國民黨。不過我倒是沒有想到，結果謝長廷變成這輩子告我告最多的人，因為在關西機場風暴當中，他推卸責任給大阪處，結果害大阪處優秀的外交官犧牲掉，我批評他卸責，他告我兩次，同一件事告我兩次，兩次法院都判他輸，打臉也認證他就是一個卸責的駐日代表。我要講這件事是什麼？告訴今天我們的院長，我一直相信一個民主的鐵律，絕對的權力使人絕對的腐化，國民黨如此，民進黨如此，任何黨也是如此，沒有制衡就沒有民主。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][1] |
好，我的問題來了，我要跟你討論的第一個題目就是新聞自由，我想請教院長認不認同沒有新聞自由就沒有民主？ |
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卓院長榮泰：當然，我們全力保障新聞的自由…… |
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羅委員智強：對啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：是民主重要的條件之一。 |
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羅委員智強：嘴巴全力保障新聞自由，來看看實際做了什麼。針對東森新聞臺的政論節目被指遭到大陸媒體盯梢一案，有一個人這麼說：調查這件事情不是很難的事情，如果沒有牽涉複雜情節，一個星期應可公布調查結果。這句話誰說的？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我說的。 |
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羅委員智強：非常好，請問調查結果出來了沒有？ |
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卓院長榮泰：調查局立案在調查中。 |
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羅委員智強：一個禮拜就要出來喔！ |
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卓院長榮泰：立案在調查中。 |
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羅委員智強：調查中啊！你的態度比較積極。剛好請我們的NCC主委。 |
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陳主任委員耀祥：是。 |
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羅委員智強：調查結果怎麼樣，進展如何？ |
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陳主任委員耀祥：因為還有其他部會，這個案子會涉及到陸委會還有國家安全的議題，所以目前來講的話，這相關的資訊我們目前還在瞭解當中。 |
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羅委員智強：你們兩個的進度都太慢，行政團隊有一位傑出人才已經把調查結果說出來，你知道是誰嗎？陸委會副主委梁文傑，他比你們兩個更果斷，他直接說：沒有爆料人。結束啦！沒有爆料人嗎？請問一下我們的主委，沒有爆料人嗎？ |
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陳主任委員耀祥：目前我們沒有接到任何的檢舉案件。 |
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羅委員智強：沒有爆料人…… |
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陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們…… |
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羅委員智強：來，請問一下院長，沒有爆料人嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我看到陸委會梁副主委答復的說法，那是他在這個時候他的認知跟他手上的資訊是如此…… |
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羅委員智強：個人說法啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：但調查局已經在立案調查中。 |
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羅委員智強：好啦！個人說法啦！那我直接問你，兩個自由時報寫盯梢案的記者算不算爆料？ |
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卓院長榮泰：哪一位？ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
羅委員智強：自由時報報導這個新聞算不算爆料？ |
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卓院長榮泰：所以現在調查局立案調查中。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
羅委員智強：算不算嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
卓院長榮泰：算不算爆料…… |
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羅委員智強：當然算嘛！我們從政這麼久，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那就是一個資訊的傳遞出來，調查局正在立案調查中。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
羅委員智強：對啊！資訊傳遞、資訊暴露就是爆料，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
卓院長榮泰：他提供訊息，當作爆料也是，但是提供的訊息正確與否，調查局正在調查中。 |
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羅委員智強：對啊！這也是嘛！你也知道，也是嘛！你也可以把爆料稱為揭露資訊、揭發新聞嘛！ |
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卓院長榮泰：所以這個調查局立案調查中，調查是不是屬實…… |
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羅委員智強：沒關係啦，有共識就好，我不是在跟你深究中文，我今天不是在上中國語言學系啦！我現在想請教你，民進黨綽號「早知道」的那位大立委沈伯洋，他說兩個月前就知道，說已經通報了，算不算爆料？ |
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卓院長榮泰：那要請他繼續說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
羅委員智強：請他繼續說明，很好！記住這句話，可是梁文傑說沒有爆料人，他顯然不看自由時報，顯然他認為我們的「早知道」大立委沈伯洋是什麼？他認為這不算爆料，還是他認為沈伯洋不是人，所以不是爆料人？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，如果把哪一個委員或哪一個人講的話就當事實的話，那就不需要調查局立案調查啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
羅委員智強：沒有關係，你要切割沈伯洋，要切割梁文傑…… |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我沒有切割、我沒有切割。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
羅委員智強：我跟你講…… |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
卓院長榮泰：就是這樣子，才要去立案調查。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
羅委員智強：這是你卓榮泰一貫的風格，我懂啦！我對你不是沒有瞭解才站在這個地方。梁文傑，你也切割了；沈伯洋，你也切割了，切割得真好！ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我沒有切割、我沒有切割。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
羅委員智強：至少主委還沒切割，你切割得這麼快！來，我想請教…… |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沈伯洋是立法院裡面的，我們無法切割。 |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
羅委員智強：不要緊張，下一個問題請教你，沈伯洋說兩個月前就知悉而且通報了，來，這兩個月，請問行政團隊在幹嘛？掌握訊息了沒有？你掌握訊息了沒有，這兩個月？沈伯洋通報了耶！堂堂民進黨的不分區第二名、男性第一名，民進黨現在的「早知道」英雄──沈伯洋，今天跟你講說已經跟國安團隊通報了，請問你，通報了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
卓院長榮泰：一個負責的委員接到任何訊息，他或許自己會有查證的義務，所以他是不是在進行這個查證的過程，這個我當然不清楚，但沈委員講出來之後，現在調查局在立案調查當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
羅委員智強：我不是問現在，我問的是兩個月前，他說兩個月前通報的。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以他可能有一段自己查證，這個我不清楚，我真的不瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
羅委員智強：院長！ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我怎麼會去瞭解委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
羅委員智強：不是，兩個月前也許你不瞭解，但是兩個月後，他說他通報了，新聞都已經出來快一個禮拜了，你說一個禮拜可以調查出來，現在跟我講你不知道！ |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以調查局在調查中，我可以去問嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
羅委員智強：院長，我想請問你，我跟你問的是他有沒有爆料，連這件事情你到現在搞了一個禮拜都不清楚，那我直接問啦！來，NCC，有沒有跟你爆料？沈伯洋有沒有跟你爆料？ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：沈委員沒有向NCC檢舉…… |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
羅委員智強：非常好！有擔當，一句話嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
陳主任委員耀祥：他跟誰爆料，這個我們不是很清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
羅委員智強：對嘛！沈伯洋沒有跟NCC爆料嘛！那我就問院長，沈伯洋有沒有跟法務部，有沒有跟調查局，有沒有跟地檢署爆料？有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
卓院長榮泰：他沒有跟我爆料，但是調查局在調查當中，這個是現在的事實。 |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
羅委員智強：沒有，我要先跟你講清楚，待會你就知道我要問什麼。接下來，有沒有跟國安單位爆料？ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這個我怎麼會知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
羅委員智強：你一問三不知，還真是…… |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員有沒有去跟哪個單位講，我怎麼會知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
羅委員智強：沈伯洋叫「早知道」，你的綽號就叫「三不知」啦，我到目前為止問你問題，你幾乎沒有一個知道，我超級欣賞你！ |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我是不知的就不知、我是不知的就不知。 |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
羅委員智強：你還跟我講一個禮拜調查結果要出來，來，我想請教你，今天沈伯洋說已經通報國安單位了，兩個月了，請問國安單位是睡了、廢了，還是殘了？兩個月有沒有進度？有沒有報告？連你都不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以調查局在調查當中啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
羅委員智強：喔，好厲害啊！趙博離開多久了？新華社記者趙博離開多久了？一個月了啦！你也不知道啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報紙的講法是5月底離開吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
羅委員智強：對啊！你也不知道啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我知道他5月底離開…… |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
羅委員智強：在兩個月前…… |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
卓院長榮泰：但他有沒有做什麼事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
羅委員智強：兩個月前通報，結果他一個多月前離開，我覺得你們國安單位好厲害，行政團隊超級棒欸！ |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員，你不能要求我在這裡像當調查員一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
羅委員智強：我沒有要你當調查員…… |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
卓院長榮泰：調查權…… |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
羅委員智強：但是你自己拍胸脯保證一個禮拜調查報告會出來啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我有說過，它的背景如果不是很複雜…… |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
羅委員智強：結果你到現在也是一問三不知啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
卓院長榮泰：它的背景如果不是很複雜，一個禮拜就會出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
羅委員智強：我直接跟你講啦，到現在為止，我幫你做一個快結論啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員所說的那麼多人的講法就是複雜…… |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
羅委員智強：你很辛苦了啦！很辛苦了，我做一個快結論啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我不能跟你裝作我什麼都知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
羅委員智強：我跟你講，你辛苦了啦！因為沈伯洋就是胡說八道啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那你要問沈委員啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
羅委員智強：他根本沒有通報啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
卓院長榮泰：你要去問沈委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
羅委員智強：不然就把通報單位講出來啊，至少確定NCC沒有，確定你偉大的「三不知」行政院長不知道他跟哪一個單位通報，通報連個通報的窗口都不知道，難怪國安單位睡兩個月啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以調查局在調查。 |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
羅委員智強：睡到今天自由時報報導之後，你到現在還是三不知啦！我最後要跟院長說…… |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
卓院長榮泰：你再問這個事情我還是不知。 |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
羅委員智強：OK，你本來就不知嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
羅委員智強：你十八不知，我都可以不意外。 |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我知道的事情，我告訴你，我不知道的我不會欺騙你。 |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
羅委員智強：從頭到尾沈伯洋就在瞎編，就是王立強2號，今天你不敢背書，還要切割梁文傑，我都同意…… |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我沒有切割，我沒有切割梁文傑。 |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
羅委員智強：很簡單，因為你也扛不起。 |
| gazette.blocks[171][1] |
接下來我就想要問一下，我告訴各位，行政團隊搞了半天，東森新聞台人家是有品牌、有聲譽，報導真相、報導事實，非常努力的新聞台，你認同吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我認同新聞媒體的努力…… |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
羅委員智強：謝謝你，你認同，結果現在我跟你講，院長，我給你一個期待啦！新聞自由不是嘴巴喊喊的，今天包括官員、包括立委、包括綠媒，在抹黑一個客觀公正，然後兢兢業業在守護第四權的東森新聞台，結果你到這邊給我一問四不知、十八不知，積極一點！你說一個禮拜報告交出來，也快到了啦！你什麼時候說的？上禮拜說的吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我說背景如果不是很複雜。 |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
羅委員智強：喔！背景當然複雜啊！有沈伯洋在都很複雜。 |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員剛剛講到現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
羅委員智強：還東森新聞台公道，謝謝你。 |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
卓院長榮泰：調查局在調查當中，不能期待我當調查員，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
主席：謝謝羅委員，謝謝卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[179][1] |
下一位我們請顏寬恒委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
92 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-21 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
江啟臣 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
26 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-07-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136601 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1136601_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1136601_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─ |
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1136601_00003 |
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副院長有請行政院長。請卓院長備詢。 |
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各位委員好各位院長在我開始正式質詢之前我想先為我們的行政團隊你的行政團隊報個屈啦我覺得行政團隊昨天受到很大的羞辱我覺得身為行政院院長應該幫他們講講話昨天你知道發生什麼事嗎你說院內的事嗎對啊立法院發生什麼事立法院癱瘓了四個委員會啊你知道哪四個委員會被癱瘓嗎這我不清楚 |
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你不清楚欸院長不會吧行政立法你今天到在對立法院負責你的官員們在立法院基本上枯坐一整天被癱瘓了四個委員會你都不知道我不知道我尊重院內在開會你那肩膀還真是夠寬啊連這麼重要的事都不知道被癱瘓了內政經濟外交國防委員會還有司法法治委員會你知道為什麼會被癱瘓嗎開會不順利是不是開會不順利啊 |
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是因為民進黨的所有的立法委員跑去霸占內政委員會的主席台當然民進黨的委員有一些政治法案上的立場不同愛霸占就霸占這是民進黨傳統跟慣例那這個就算了昨天就發生了不一定昨天叫一定在你的字眼叫不一定在昨天叫一定 |
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那我今天要告訴你民進黨的囂張跟跋扈在哪裡你知道嗎?不知道你如果因為說罷免選罷法修正案你不高興你不爽你要把內政委員會癱瘓那我想請問你昨天我們的外交國防委員會NCC法務部還有包括這個調查局的所有的單位對不對通傳會的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.386 |
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為什麼今天連外交國防委員會也要被癱瘓掉?講個道理出來嘛!那想請教你們的閣議員們在那邊因為王定宇落跑不主持會議結果呢搞到所有官員哭坐在那邊你不為他們覺得委屈嗎? |
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176.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們還是尊重院內開會的秩序不只是外交、國防、經濟委員會是一樣啊還有包括司法法治委員會是一樣我要這邊跟大家說跟院長說一件事情明明這三個委員會不管你們講任何政治主張你就算貪換內政委員會其實這三個委員會都不用賠帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
可是民進黨就是傳統囂張跋扈的文化嘛我今天要開外內政委員會我連當昭偉的王定宇可以落跑當昭偉的鍾佳冰可以落跑當昭偉的邱盈瑩可以落跑落跑三人組嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
然後讓官員們浪費時間,鑽的地方,官員很辛苦啊。我昨天就問我們法務部次長啊,洗錢防治法重不重要,請問院長。我先想問你嘛,洗錢防治法重不重要嘛。對嘛,都重要嘛,很好啊,態度很正確啊。我也相信我們那時候出席的法務部次長,洗錢防治法一定準備很充分啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
可是我上去質詢沒有主席無法質詢所以他不能上來回答這就是今天我要告訴你回頭還是這句話你民進黨要癱瘓內政委員會不要連累行政團隊的閣員我今天在這裡是因為你不願意幫他們報區我幫他們報區啊他們不是傀儡不是道具不是嘎啦啦啦坐在那個地方欽差你民進黨立法院黨團糟蹋啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
247.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
報告委員：羅智強 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
284.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
三個委員,民進黨要看換內政委員會缺三個召委嗎?請問那三個召委的責任是什麼在昨天?你也當過立法委員喔?對啊,你也曾經當過立法委員啊?請問召委的責任是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
302.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
329.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以這就是召集主持會議安排議程讓官員來備詢阿?把公務做好阿誠實回答委員的請勸所以我還是那個結論很簡單我也不知道你也不會你也不敢講什麼啦我可以體諒你啦但是我就要講很簡單今天民進黨昨天做出最壞的示範沒有討論沒有民主連開會都被你罷掉癱瘓掉民主什麼阿?每天喊民主來我想請教你下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
332.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
358.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
在下一個問題之前我先講一下我自己分享一些對台灣民主發展的一些看法我在2006年加入國民黨的事實上在2000年之前第一次政黨輪替之前我不喜歡當時的國民黨原因兩個第一個當時的威權時代的國民黨前置新聞自由第二個當時國民黨一黨獨大缺乏制衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
359.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
388.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
事實上在2000年第一次政黨輪替之前我也從來沒有投票給國民黨過1998年高雄市市長選舉我還投給謝長廷不是因為我很喜歡謝長廷單純就是因為我覺得國民黨權力太大缺乏制衡我覺得應該要讓民進黨可以得到一些權力來制衡這個獨大的國民黨不過我到底沒有想到啦結果謝長廷變成這輩子告我告最多的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
389.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
411.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為對因為在關西機場風暴當中他推謝哲任推給大阪處結果害大阪處優秀的外交官犧牲掉我批評他謝哲他告我兩次同一件事告我兩次兩次法院都判他輸打臉也認真他就是一個謝哲的助日代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
412.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
438.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我要講這件事是什麼告訴今天我們的院長我一直相信一個民主的鐵律絕對的權利使人絕對的腐化國民黨如此民進黨如此任何黨也是如此沒有制衡就沒有民主好問題來了我要跟你討論第一個題目就是新聞自由我想請教院長認不認同沒有新聞自由就沒有民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
440.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
456.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
當然我們全力保障新聞的自由,是民主重要的條件之一。嘴巴全力保障新聞自由,來看看實際做了什麼。針對東森新聞台的政論節目,被指遭到大陸媒體盯梢一案。有一個人這麼說啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
458.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
473.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
調查這件事情不是很難的事情。如果沒有牽涉複雜情節,一個星期應可公布調查結果。這句話誰說的?我說的。非常好。請問調查結果出來了沒有?調查局立案在調查中。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
474.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
479.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你們兩個進度都太慢。行政團隊有一位傑出人才已經把調查結果說出來,你知道是誰嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
502.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
主委會副主委梁文傑他比你兩個更果斷他直接說沒有爆料人結束啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
兩個自由時報寫丁上岸的記者算不算爆料? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
542.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
544.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
兩個自由時報,自由時報報道這個新聞算不算爆料?算不算嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
549.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
算不算爆料?我們重振這麼久,對不對?對啊,資訊傳遞,資訊暴露就是爆料啊,不是嗎?他提供訊息,當作爆料也是,但提供訊息正不正確與否,調查局是調查當中。你也可以稱為把爆料解除而揭露資訊,揭發新聞嘛。沒關係啦,有故事就好,我不跟你再深究中文,今天不上中國語言學系啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
597.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我希望請教你,民進黨綽號早知道的那位大立委沈博洋,他說兩個月前就知道,說已經通報了,算不算爆料?請他繼續說明,很好,講幾乎這句話,可是我們梁文傑說沒有爆料人啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
598.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
625.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他顯然自由時報不看啊他顯然我們早知道大立委沈博洋他是什麼他認為這不算爆料還是他認為沈博洋不是人所以不是爆料人報告委如果哪一個委員會哪一個人講的話就當事實的話那就不需要調查立案調查了沒有關係你要切割沈博洋要切割梁文傑我跟你講是你卓榮泰一貫的風格我懂啦對你不是沒有了解才站在這地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
626.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
631.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
聖伯陽你也切割了,切割真好,事實上你的主委還沒切割咧,你切割這麼快。聖伯陽在立法院裡面都無法切割。聖伯陽在立法院裡面都無法切割。聖伯陽說兩個月前就知悉而且通報了。這兩個月請問檢討團在幹嘛?掌握訊息了沒有?你掌握訊息了沒有這兩個月? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
649.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
675.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
沈博洋通報了耶!堂堂民進黨的不分區第二名男性第一名民進黨現在的早知道英雄沈博洋今天跟你講說已經跟國安團隊通報了請問你通報了沒有一個負責的委員接到任何的訊息他或許自己會有查證的義務所以他是在進行這個查證的過程這個我當然不清楚但沈委員講出來之後現在調查局在立案調查他之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
677.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
706.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我問是兩個月前,他說兩個月前通報。所以他可能有一段自己查證,這個我不清楚,我真的不了解。哎,院長。我怎麼會去了解一個委員?不是,你他兩個月前也許你不了解,但是兩個月後他說他通報了,都已經新聞出來快一個禮拜了,你說一個禮拜可以調查出來,現在我講你不知道?所以調查局在調查中,我可以去問嗎?院長,我想請問你啊,我跟你問的是他有沒有爆料欸? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
720.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你這件事情你到現在搞了一個禮拜都不清楚,那我直接問啦,來NCC有沒有跟你爆料?總會員有沒有跟你爆料?非常好,有擔當嘛,一句話嘛對嘛,沒有跟NCC爆料嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
725.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
740.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那我就問院長啊,沈博恩有沒有跟法務部有沒有跟調查局有沒有跟體檢署爆料?有沒有?他沒有跟我們報料,但是調查局在調查當中,這個是現在的事實。沒有,我要先跟你講清楚啦,講清楚啦,待會你就知道我要問什麼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
741.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
749.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
接下來齁有沒有跟國安單位爆料?委員有沒有去跟哪個單位講我怎麼會知道?我到目前為止問你問題幾乎沒有一個知道我超級欣賞你你還跟我講一個月一個禮拜調查結果要出來來我想請教你齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
762.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
778.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
今天沈博洋說已經通報了國安單位了兩個月了我請問國安單位是稅的廢了還是殘了兩個月有沒有進度有沒有報告連你都不知道所以調查局在調查當中啊噢好厲害啊趙博離開多久了新華社記者趙博離開多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
783.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
800.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一個月了啦!你也不知道啦!對啊!你也不知道啦!我知道他五月底離開啊!那兩個月前!兩個月前通報!結果!他一個多月前離開!欸我覺得你們國安單位好厲害!行政團隊超級棒欸! |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
800.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
815.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
委員你不能要求我在你當調查員一樣我沒有要你當調查員但是你自己拍胸脯保證一個禮拜調查報告都會出來阿結果你到現在是一問三不知阿我直接跟你講啦我剛剛委員所說的那麼多人的這個講法就是複雜阿我不能跟你裝作我什麼都知道阿因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
824.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
848.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
神不敢就是胡說八道啦!他根本沒有通報啦!不然就找通報單位講出來啊!至少確定NCC沒有,確定你偉大三不知行政院院長不知道他跟哪一個單位通報啦!通報連個通報的窗口都不知道啦!難怪國安單位睡兩個月啦!睡到今天自由時報報導之後,你到現在還是三不知啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
849.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
865.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我最後跟院長說,你本來就不知嘛,你18不知我都不理你。從頭到尾審判就瞎編,就是王立強二號。今天你不敢背書他要切割梁文傑,我覺得都同意你。很簡單,因為你也扛不起。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
868.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
893.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
接下來我就要想問一下我告訴各位行政團隊搞了半天都升新聞台人家是有品牌有聲譽報導真相報導事實非常努力的新聞台你認同吧我認同這個謝謝你啊但你認同結果現在我跟你講為什麼院長我給你一個期待啦新聞自由不是嘴巴喊喊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
894.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
911.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
今天包括官員包括說立委包括綠媒在抹黑一個客觀公正然後兢兢業業在守護第四權的東森新聞台結果你到這邊你跟我一問事不知十八不知 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
912.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
914.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好,謝謝羅委員。謝謝卓院長。下一位我們請嚴寬衡委員之選。 |