| IVOD_ID |
154498 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154498 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-03T11:25:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-03T11:37:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd080148958083d084cb3f5941fe168625e8e3eb0bf88d021c54de318ebac86ee55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:25:33 - 11:37:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。
二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。
【7月3日及4日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
860 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（11時25分）謝謝主席，我請金管會彭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請彭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：王委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員世堅：我們壽險業資產總額已經高達36兆，而他們可運用的資金32兆當中，現在照這個分配比，竟然國外投資占了70%！你看一下表格的金額，高達22兆、69.7%。當然這不能單獨怪你，可是我們先比較一下國外各國在壽險業海外投資的部分占多少，就舉對岸中國為例好了，中國壽險業只有2%耶！2%的資金到國外。韓國不到10%，是8.3%；日本21.6%；美國12%。獨獨臺灣正需要公共建設，正需要大家投入臺灣、對我們國家有信心的時候，我們竟然放任最大的資金──壽險業的資金高達70%、22兆到國外去投資！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
在座各位都是金融專家，你們很清楚，國外這些投資最大的風險，第一個是戰爭；第二個是匯率；第三，連他們的利率，表面上高的地方，但你賺了它的利息、賠了本金。我現在簡單講俄國就好，在俄國我們竟然有8家壽險業持有它1,380億債券！好了，這1,380億通通暴險，怎麼講？俄烏戰爭還在打。不講這個戰爭，壽險業說不知道兩年前他們會打仗，那你至少要知道俄國那麼極權的國家，在世界版圖裡面它是軸心國，拜託！這些壽險業唯利是圖，利率高就去！他們不但價值理念跟我們自由世界的國家不同，現在它有戰爭，說翻臉就翻臉。我光指現在，這8家有72張投資型保單，現在已經被通知啦！這只是冰山一小小角，有11億已經通知說這個到時候要逾期，踩雷了，說要等到解禁才能收回。所以光這11億，有8,000萬資金要損失掉，我們的保戶根本拿不到錢。這些壽險業就是這樣，「用別人的拳頭拇舂石獅」！賺是它要賺，賠是保戶賠，就是這樣！這8家不只這11億，11億是被通知到的，因為馬上就暴險，後續這1,380億，彭主委，我本來一上台想問你是哪8家，後來我想想，其實最主要不是你造成的啦，是你的前任黃天牧主委！他在2020年的時候就說壽險業海外投資暴險金額比率過高，應該要降低。說要降，結果4年來越降越高，從他4年前上任時的64%拿到海外去，到現在高達70%！當然，他卸任了，而且他過去也有一些好的表現，我就不提他了，但是在你任內，尤其壽險是你的專業，我希望你拿出你的專業、堅持你的風骨，我認為壽險資金投資海外要大幅降低！當然，財政部也要配合。部長，你坐在位子上聽就好，財政部應該協調各部會，針對我們重大的公共建設、需要資金的公共建設，引領各部會趕快來跟財政部協商，由財政部幫他們發行公債嘛！不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][2] |
這麼多年來，財政部在蔡總統任內代為發行的乙類公債有7大項，都是很有意義的公共建設，從桃園航空城、國道建設到高速鐵路，這些都非常好，自償性也很高，可是這7檔加起來才1,500億，占不到1%！天啊！這麼努力之下喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][3] |
壽險業又說了，他們說我們國內的債券市場太小了、我們利率太低了，他們是為了保障保戶的收益。主委，這些話我就用4個字來形容──鬼話連篇！他們說要保障保戶的收益，欸！你在任何時間點賣的保單都是以當年、當時我們國內的利率去計算期望值的，所以不要在那邊「騙痟的」啦！以現在的利率計算的保單期望值，那它賠什麼賠？這10年來、這20年來都以各該當時的利率計算不是嗎？然後他們還額外賺什麼？他們還賺國內這麼多不動產的投資、這些不動產的增值。我相信這些經過詳細的計算後，主委，你下去計算一下，我有初步的一些概算，我認為這些壽險業的業主心思都不單純，很邪惡啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][4] |
第一點，他們對建設我們臺灣、建設我們國家沒有信心，否則怎麼會說國內債券市場規模太小？我就講我們國家發行的公債就好了啊！國家發行的公債數十年來超過10兆，到現在我們國債（公債）的餘額還有5.8兆喔！那你至少先拿個10%，32兆拿個10%，用3兆2來買國債總可以吧！可是它不！他們不買！這胡說八道嘛！不但帶頭對建設我們國家沒信心，第二點，還坑殺保戶，他們去國外利率高的地方，賺的時候它賺，現在賠了，我剛剛講俄國現在暴險了！已經暴險的部分保戶就要賠7,000萬，光11億就要賠7,000萬，統統賠保戶的！後續它還有1,380億，這8家！所以我希望你私下告訴我是哪8家，我們一起想想辦法看怎麼整他們啦！幫保戶討回公道嘛！可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：我們來看一下資料，如果可以提供的話，再提供給委員參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：表示你有資料嘛！不是嗎？你剛剛說看一下資料再來決定。好啦！因為你剛上任不久，我對你不苛責。我是對你不苛責，但是抱著期許！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：謝謝，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：我期許你對這些惡劣的壽險公司能夠拿出風骨跟膽識。不是每一家都惡劣喔！就是已經變成金融怪獸的這幾家。我剛剛講至少有8家是非常、非常惡劣！我有計算，也希望你下去計算一下，針對他們講的這些謬論，看看用什麼方式去反駁。它說要保障保戶的收益，所以必須到海外去，海外利率才高，我剛剛跟你講了嘛！利率高，你賺了人家利率，它從匯率把你整回來。第二點，遇到戰爭怎麼辦？第三點是最重要的，我們國家、我們的公共建設需要資金，要帶頭對我們國家有信心，要建設我們臺灣才對！不是嗎？我們有那麼多的建設需要，現在除了大型的公共建設，另類的公共建設也很多啊！社會住宅、長照、社福機構，這些也都有他們的自償性，都足以讓壽險的資金回流去投資，不是嗎？但是他們置若罔聞、視若無睹，就是這些業者這麼惡劣的行徑！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
所以，彭主委，因為時間到了，我對你有期許啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：我對部長也有期許，雖然比較低。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
但是我希望你針對我講的，做一份簡單扼要的說明，私下告訴我怎麼來處理，好不好？一定要降低這些壽險業海外投資的占比，占到70%，已經到了非常惡劣、離譜的地步了。好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：謝謝，謝謝委員，謝謝！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。現在請央行楊總裁，還有彭主委和莊部長到前面這邊來。我們現在休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][1] |
休息（11時37分） |
| gazette.blocks[11][2] |
繼續開會（12時3分） |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
主席：我們繼續開會。下一位質詢請陳玉珍陳委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
68 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-20 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鍾佳濱 |
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吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
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2024-07-03 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1136901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大
參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員
會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢；二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六
條之四條文修正草案」案 |
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謝謝主席我請經管委員彭主委請彭主委王委好彭主委是我們授選業資產總額已經高達36兆而他們可運用的資金32兆當中現在照這個分配比 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
竟然國外投資佔了70%高達22兆69.73%當然這不能單獨怪你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.336 |
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66.472 |
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可是我們先比較一下國外他們各國那麼在受險業海外投資的部分佔多少我們就舉對岸中國好了中國受險業只有2%欸2%的資金到國外去韓國不到10%8.3日本21.6美國12%獨獨我們台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.906 |
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正需要公共建設正需要大家投入我們台灣對我們國家有信心的時候我們竟然放任最大的資金受險業的資金高達百分之七十二十二兆到國外去做投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
130.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那這些投資在座各位都是金融專家你們很清楚國外這些投資最大的風險第一個戰爭第二個匯率第三連他們的利率表面上高的地方但是你賺了他利息賠了本金我現在簡單講俄國就好俄國 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
142.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們竟然有8家售險業只有他1380億的債券好啦 這1380億通通曝險怎麼講 俄烏戰爭還在打那 不講說這個戰爭好了 售險業說 我不知道兩年前他們會打仗那你至少要知道 俄國那麼極權的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
191.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
在世界的版圖裡面他是軸心國欸拜託這些壽險業唯利是圖啊利率高啦就去啦好啦他們不但價值理念跟我們自由世界國家不同好啦現在他有戰爭說翻臉就翻臉我光指現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
219.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
光現在這8家有72張投資型保單現在已經被通知了這只是冰山一小小角11億已經通知說這個到時候要預期啦踩雷啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
220.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
239.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以要等到解禁才能收尾所以啊光這11億有八千萬的資金要損失掉我們的保護根本拿不到錢所以這些受險業就是這樣啊賺他要賺賠保護賠就是這樣這八家不只這11億喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
251.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
275.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這11億是被通知到的因為馬上曝險的後續再1380億那個彭主委我本來一上台想問你說哪8家啦後來我想想其實最主要不是你造成的啦你的前任黃天慕主委他在2020年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
277.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
301.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他就說啊 受選業海外投資這樣的曝險過高金額比例過高啦 他說要降結果他從當年啦 欸 說要降這四年來越降越高從四年前上任的時候64%拿到海外去現在高達70% |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
306.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
335.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當然啦他卸任啦他過去也有一些好的表現啦我就不提他啦但是我希望在你的任內尤其受險是你的專業我希望你拿出你的專業堅持你的風骨我認為受險資金投資海外要大幅降低當然財政部也要配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
337.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
348.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個部長你就在位子上聽著就好啦財政部應該協調各部會把我們重大的公共建設需要資金的公共建設引領各部會他們趕快跟財政部來協商財政部你幫他們發行公債嘛不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
361.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
385.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有啦 這麼多年來 蔡總統的任內 有我們去推了這些大概財政部代為發行的這些以內公債有七大項啦 都很有意義的公共建設從桃園航空城 我們國道建設到高速鐵路哇 這些都非常好 自償性也很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
386.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
394.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可是這7黨加起來才1500億1500億占不到1%天啊這麼努力之下喔那受險業又說啦說啊我們國內財政市場太小啦我們利率太低啦他們是為了保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
412.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
413.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
444.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
455.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一、現在的利率算的保單的期望值那它賠什麼賠這10年來、這20年來都以各該當時的利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
457.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
476.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不是嗎?然後他額外還賺什麼?他們還賺國內這麼多不動產的投資這些不動產的增值我相信這些經過詳細的計算後那個主委你下去計算一下我有初步的一些概算我認為這些壽險業齁這些業主心思都不單純很邪惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
484.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
506.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第一點他們對我們建設我們台灣建設我們國家沒有信心啊否則你怎麼會說我們國內證券規模太小我就講我們國家發行的公債就好啊國家發行的公債數十年來超過10兆到現在我們國債的餘額公債喔還有5.8兆5.8兆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
514.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
523.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那你至少能先拿個10%、32兆拿個10%、3兆2來買買國債總可以吧?他不!他那不買!這胡說八道嘛!不但!帶頭!對!建設!我們國家沒信心!第二點!康沙保護! |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
539.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
548.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他去國外利率高的地方賺他賺現在賠他我剛剛講的俄國這個現在普選啦普選啦已經普選的部分保護就要賠7千萬光11億就要賠7千萬通通賠保護的然後後續他還有1380億這8家所以我希望你私下告訴我哪8家啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
568.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
596.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們一起想想辦法看怎麼整他們啦幫保護討回公道嘛可不可以呃我們來看一下資料我們再再來如果可以提供我們就提供給委員參考啊表示案例有資料嘛不是嗎你剛剛說看一下資料再來決定好啦你的因為你剛上任不久我對你不苛責我是對你不苛責但是抱著期許謝謝謝謝委員我期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
598.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
617.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你能夠拿出風骨跟膽識對!這些惡劣的授權公司不是每一家都惡劣喔就是已經變成金融怪獸的這幾家我剛剛講至少有8家是非常非常惡劣那 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
619.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
634.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我有計算啦我希望你下去計算一下就是他們講的這些謬論用什麼方式反駁他他說保障保護的收益所以必須到海外去海外啊利率才高我剛剛跟你講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
636.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
655.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
欸!利率高!你賺了人家利率,他從匯率把你整回來。第二點,遇到戰爭,那怎麼辦?第三點,最重要的,我們國家我們的公共建設需要資金,要帶頭對我們國家有信心,要建設我們台灣才對,不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
657.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
684.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們有那麼多的建設需要現在除了大型的公共建設欸!另類的公共建設很多啊!社會住宅、長照、社福機構這些也都有他們的自償性都足以讓受險他們的資金回流去投資,不是嗎?但是!他們自落網紋、自落無睹 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
686.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
700.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是這些業者這麼惡劣的心境所以那個彭主委我因為時間到了齁我對你有期許啦我對部長也有期許啦雖然比較低齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
702.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
723.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
但是那個我希望你針對我講的齁那你做一份簡單二要的一些說明私下你告訴我那怎麼來處理好不好一定要降低這些受險業海外投資佔了70%已經到了非常惡劣離譜的地步啦好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
730.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
735.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在請那個央行、央總裁還有彭主任 |