| IVOD_ID |
153398 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153398 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-30T11:37:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-30T11:49:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba1cedf71ecae5cea14622ddde1e3527b9446d6a815e913744d5cd0d2049eaa7765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:37:42 - 11:49:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度，並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
730 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（11時37分）謝謝主席，我先請金管會彭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請彭主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員世堅：彭主委，有三種刷卡消費延後24小時生效，這是金管會現在針對打詐要祭出的新策略，包括遊戲點數、錢包儲值、電子禮券。我認為金管會欠缺考慮，為什麼？打詐要從抓源頭開始，結果你先從處罰使用端開始，這不是很莫名其妙嗎？尤其電子禮券，這是我們一般小市民的小確幸，很多商家、餐廳主打的就是即買即用、買多優惠，升斗小民苦悶的日子就這麼一點小確幸，你現在要處罰？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：我們有3,000元的上限。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：這不是很莫名其妙！不管3,000元、3萬元都不對，而且這個過程金管會自己關起門來決定，你們自己關起門來，完全沒有找相關的，例如電子支付業者，完全沒有啊！你們只有信用卡委員會自己開會，5月8日你們開會就決定了，5月24日你們只是通知相關業者，你不是找它來開會，很扯的是現在這種遊戲點數定型化契約，要談這個很好，但是你應該橫向溝通，找數位部一起來商量啊！不是這樣子嗎？結果我問了數位部，它說你們都沒有找它商量過，這很莫名其妙，我認為現在對使用端懲罰是懲罰了小市民，用4個字形容，這叫矯枉過正。彭主委，我認為金管會要管對，管大的事情，法律要對強者有效，不是去對小市民，對強者、惡劣者能夠懲罰他們、制裁他們，社會才有公理，不是這樣嗎？你剛還好意思說有設3,000元的限制門檻，天啊！我們小市民就只能在3,000元裡面打打轉就對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
提到源頭管理，2年前我們通過要下架投資詐騙的廣告，1年前，去年的4月又通過網路投資廣告實名制，通過以後，因為你剛上任，我讓你知道一下慘況，用4個字形容──越打越詐，通過以後，光是111年6,542件，詐騙金額37億元；隔一年更多，1萬1,775件，金額53.7億元。你剛跟我談3,000元！我就講今年，今年光1到3月就3,316件，尾數300件去掉，平均1個月1,000件，今年預估會到1萬2,000件，詐騙金額預估60億元。天啊！你剛剛跟我談3,000元！我認為這是現在嚴重的情況，要面對它。大概2個月前，金管會說6月底前投資廣告實名制就會上路，結果數發部在前天的回答，它說光是改這個系統要8個月！天啊！彭主委你回去查一下，到底是你們金管會說的6月底還是要8個月？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
彭主任委員金隆：我們有跟臉書確認，它確實回答這個答案。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：你回去查一下。主席，時間暫停，我請部長一起上來。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
主席：有請莊部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王委員世堅：莊部長，談到ESG，我認為剛剛大家談很多，關於環境、社會責任、公司治理ESG的表格，我認為要真的落實才有用，不是有ESG表格，大家高高興興填一填，落實的狀況我只有4個字形容──形同虛設。不是嗎？這樣的表格，我舉幾個例子，合作金庫授信申請的案件，我光講2022年到今年4月，它受理5萬4,959件授信案件，涉及ESG的有984件，結果沒有核准授信的只有4件，而且借的金額都很大，這些借款人可能神通廣大吧！第一銀行也是，光去年有986件涉及ESG風險，也是只有4件。抱歉，剛才合作金庫少1件，是3件。第一銀行986件只有4件沒通過，已經明顯涉及ESG風險了，其他的還統統通過，連加碼利息都沒有就通過，ESG在審什麼呢？一向自我標榜模範銀行的華南銀行也是，華南銀行更扯，涉及ESG風險的案件每一件都通過，華南銀行在搞什麼呢？董事長、總經理有沒有來？莊部長這你任命的嗎？時間暫停。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
主席：董事長、總經理都有到，請他們上來備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王委員世堅：你們華銀自稱是模範銀行，董事長、總經理回去檢討一下，ESG的表格是作來大家看一看、交差了事的嗎？0件耶！要不然如同我剛講的，你硬要讓它通過，至少加一加利率，不是嗎？所以你們把這個問題帶回去，另外再回復我。部長，董事長、總經理是你任命的，像這樣的董事長、總經理就應該給他們記個小過，好不好？兩位請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員指教，這裡有沒核准的件數，但是也有有條件通過的，包含核減它的核貸金額或限制等等條件也是有的。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王委員世堅：有加註條件？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
莊部長翠雲：也有加註條件的。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王委員世堅：所以不核准是最嚴重？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，這是一種。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王委員世堅：要不然就利息加碼是其次嚴重？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，有條件通過。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王委員世堅：再來就是加註一點條件？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
王委員世堅：給貓掛鈴鐺就對了？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
莊部長翠雲：鈴鐺有警示的效果。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王委員世堅：我剛剛為什麼提一銀，因為最扯的，一銀還是ESG推動的時候負責召集所有公股行庫來推倡議平臺，那倡議什麼？倡議這個表格大家參考參考，是這樣嗎？所以一銀的責任更重大，一銀也算是模範銀行。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
莊部長翠雲：一銀在評鑑上也獲得前5%的肯定，也是有的。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王委員世堅：我剛剛為什麼說法律要對強者、惡劣者制裁才對，我就舉興富發建設、基泰建設，因為大家耳熟能詳，興富發建設除了中捷這個案子，其他從南到北，高雄、臺中、桃園、板橋、臺北都有它的案子，從文心愛悅、經貿中心、中山真藏，名字我就不唸了，光這裡面一、二個案子都由兆豐、華銀、公股銀行聯貸111億元，我剛唸的每一個案件都有工安，少則火災，重則工人意外墜樓，3個、5個這樣不幸身亡。大家都曉得基泰大直，基泰大直問題超多的，它還涉及叫黑衣人、黑道來恐嚇客戶、恐嚇地主、非法吸金一堆，你們照樣貸款給它。我舉最後一個例子，薯條三兄弟，我就兩句話講它，剝削客戶權益、違反社會公義，是不是嚴重的涉及ESG風險？結果九大公銀行庫還聯貸給它2,600億元，剛才彭主委還跟我講對升斗小民的設限3,000元，3,000元你講得出口！你剝削升斗小民、小市民的小確幸，收回那句話，可不可以？你剛上任，來自學界，我本來對你印象很好，還有莊部長記得我一句話，繼續看好你的十字架。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
主席：謝謝王世堅委員質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][1] |
接著請羅明才委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
274 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-15 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林楚茵 |
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邱志偉 |
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張智倫 |
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楊瓊瓔 |
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蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
209 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1135401 |
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| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進 ESG
制度評鑑，並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
7.781 |
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11.905 |
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謝謝主席,我先請金管委彭主委有請彭主委喂,你好彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
有三種刷卡消費延後24小時生效這是我們金管會現在針對打詐要祭出的新的策略遊戲點數、錢包組織、電子禮券我認為金管會有欠缺考慮為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
打詐要從抓源頭開始結果你先從處罰使用端開始這不是很莫名其妙嗎尤其電子禮券這是我們一般小市民的小確幸欸電子禮券很多商家餐廳他們主打的就是急買急用買多優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
73.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三千塊你認為這不是很莫名其妙不管三千啦三萬多還不對啦而且你這個過程儘管會自己關起門來決定你們自己關起門來你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
104.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個完全沒有找相關的比方說這個電子支付業者你完全沒有啊你們只有信用卡委員會自己開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
5月8號你們開會就決定啦5月24號你們只是通知通知相關業者你不是找他來開會喔那很扯的是現在這種遊戲點數定型化契約欸這個要談這個很好但是你應該橫向溝通找數位部一起來商量啊不是這樣子嗎結果我問了數位部他說你們都沒有找他商量過 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
145.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這很莫名其妙我認為現在對使用端懲罰是懲罰了小市民這四個字形容啦這個叫矯枉過正所以彭主委我認為儘管要管對管大的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
169.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
法律要對強者有效不是去對小市民對強者、惡劣者能夠懲罰他們制裁他們社會才有公理不是這樣嗎你剛才好意思說有啦我有設一個3000塊的限制門檻天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
174.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
王世堅 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
190.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
一年前去年的4月以後通過網路投資廣告這個實名制通過以後彭主委當然你現在才上任我讓你知道一下這些慘況我四個字形容越打越炸通過以後光是光是111年6542件37億的詐騙金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
218.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
222.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
隔一年更多11,775件53.7億你剛剛在跟我談那個3000塊去年今年我就講今年今年光一到三月就3316件尾數300件去掉平均一個月1000件今年啦預估會到12000件預估金額會被詐騙60億天啊你剛剛在跟我談3000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
251.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我認為說這些是現在嚴重的情況要面對它那這個前幾天要問啊這你還沒上任前啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
265.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們有跟臉說確認他確實是跟我們回答是這樣一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
293.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席時間暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
304.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
總部長這個要談到這個ESG齁我認為齁剛剛大家談很多了啦這關於環境社會責任公司治理這個ESG的這個表格那我認為齁要真的落實才有用啦不是說啊有ESG表格那大家就填一填高高興興這樣填一填這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
334.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不落實我就四個字形容形同虛設不是嗎你這樣子的表格我舉幾個例子就是我們公營行庫我們公營行庫合作金庫合作金庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個受信申請的案件我光講2022年到今年4月他受理54959件這個受信案件涉及ESG的有984件結果沒有核准受信的只有4件只有4件 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
399.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
喔 我不曉得這些借款的 而且借的金額都很大這些借款可能神通廣大吧那第一銀行也是啊他有900光去年有986件涉及ESG風險也是只有4件 抱歉 剛才合作禁錮還少一件 三件三件 因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第一銀行4件沒通過986件你只有4件沒有通過已經明顯涉及ESG風險喔然後你還其他的你通通通過你連增加他利息加碼都沒有就給他通過那你在ESG在審什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
429.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
430.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
王世堅總經理有沒有來? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
莊部長在你任命了嗎?時間暫停,董事長總經理都有到,要請他們上來備詢嗎?張董你們懷疑記稱是模範銀行欸董事長總經理,回去檢討一下你這個ESG的表格是做來給大家看一看交差了事的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
林建捏林建捏要不然你好歹就我剛講的嘛你硬要給他通過好啦那你至少加一加他們的利率不是嗎不是嗎所以你們把這個問題帶回去你另外再回答我好不好那個部長你任命的喔董事長總經理像這樣的董事長總經理你就應該跟他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
511.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
532.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不核准 這個最嚴重 要不然就立即加碼是其次嚴重 再用好加注一點條件 給貓掛鈴鐺就對了我剛剛講的議員 我剛剛為什麼提議員你知道 因為最扯的 議員他還是我們ESG推動的時候 還負責召集所有公股、行庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
來推這個倡議平台那倡議什麼倡議他們說這個表格大家參考參考是這樣嗎所以議員的責任更重大好不好議員這還算是也算是模範理論那我剛剛為什麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
法律要對強者、惡劣者去制裁才對為什麼我就舉例嘛ESG我就舉我就講這個新復發建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
589.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為大家耳熟能講新復發建設除了這個終結這個案子其他從南到北高雄、台中、桃園都有他的案子到板橋、台北這從文興、愛樂、經貿中心、中山、珍藏這名字我就不念了他光這裡面一兩個案子都 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
616.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
636.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
由趙鋒、海外營業、在內供股銀行連帶他111億這麼明顯的他這些案件每一個我剛唸的每一個案件都有公安少則火災重則啊工人意外墜樓三個五個這樣不幸身亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
639.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
數條山兄弟數條山兄弟 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
672.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我就兩句話講他 剝削客戶權益違反社會公義這是不是嚴重的涉及ESG風險結果我們九大公營行戶還連帶給他2600億剛才彭主任你還跟我講對三頭小民對他們的設限你說啊 3000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
695.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝王世堅委員質詢接著我們請羅明采委員質詢 |