| IVOD_ID |
153366 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153366 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
23 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-30T11:16:57+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-30T11:26:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:16 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba394692606851d82b8c05f44c04a464db446d6a815e91374449fd245485fe178c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:16:57 - 11:26:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
422 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時16分）主席及各位委員，有請林部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
賴委員士葆：你是接了新職宣誓就任後第一次來嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林部長佳龍：對，第一次。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：你來這裡的人緣是不錯啦，林佳龍不管是在外面黨外或是在野黨的，對你不會討厭。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林部長佳龍：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：但我們希望你講真話，因為我知道你喜歡講真話，而且你也勇於擔當，出事情的時候，交通部長你就不做了。我就問一個問題，很多報導說這個位子不是你的首選，你點頭嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林部長佳龍：是…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是首選喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林部長佳龍：我聽得懂你講的。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是首選嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林部長佳龍：如果有更適合的人才的話，我們當然可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴委員士葆：話又要倒過來講，你比較想要的那個位子被人家占走了，所以只好無奈加減有就好了，這樣說對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林部長佳龍：不對！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴委員士葆：你剛才說的就是這樣，不是你的首選！不是你的首選！ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林部長佳龍：有人要擔比較重的擔子，我們應該給他加油。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴委員士葆：對嘛！你就講出弦外之音了！你原來想去現在卓榮泰的位子，卓榮泰什麼位子？行政院長，對不對？我也覺得你來做比較適合，你的經歷比他多很多，卓榮泰當院長，你沒有當院長，我替你抱不平！你有沒有感覺我跟你很知音，我講出你心裡的話？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
林部長佳龍：其實外交工作很重要。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有，行政院長更重要啦！這樣對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林部長佳龍：總統和院長認為我來這裡可以為國家貢獻。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不會覺得你來這裡很委屈？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林部長佳龍：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴委員士葆：卓榮泰當院長，他變成你的長官，好奇怪！他沒有首長的經歷，你都有；他做過立委，你也做過立委，來比一比，我們的英文是留洋的，你都很清楚，我們說Track record，你過去的經歷這麼漂亮，做過臺中市長、部會首長、立委，而且你的關係這麼好。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林部長佳龍：外交對臺灣最重要了，臺灣現在是外交最重要。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：外交很辛苦，來這裡做沒成績，來這裡做沒成績！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林部長佳龍：有委員的支持，我一定會更有成績。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：外交什麼成績？你現在能不能講，第一個，以後你的部長任內，絕對不會有一國再斷交，你敢這樣說嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林部長佳龍：我們全力以赴顧好邦交，而且要繁榮我們的邦交國，讓它…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
賴委員士葆：一年內如果再斷一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林部長佳龍：讓它跟我們的關係更緊密。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴委員士葆：你把官位拿出來、烏紗帽拿出來，林佳龍現在說成這樣多有使命感，可以！有氣魄一點，拍胸脯保證，一年內如果斷交一國就下台，你敢不敢這樣講？敢嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林部長佳龍：我們要比較正向來思考我們的外交工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴委員士葆：正向啊！外交部長沒有外交國，什麼叫外交？你認同臺灣如果邦交國變零也沒關係，你認同嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林部長佳龍：我是全力以赴一定要…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴委員士葆：你認不認同？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林部長佳龍：不只固邦，而且要榮邦。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼叫榮邦？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
林部長佳龍：就是繁榮跟我們有交往的國家，特別是我們的邦交國。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天沒有聽到林佳龍…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
林部長佳龍：不只是固邦，真的要針對它的國家發展，我們臺灣can help好好地去做。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：我前面誇獎你是因為我是臺中人，你當過臺中市長，所以我給你加1分，你知道嗎？結果你的氣魄都沒有拿出來，氣魄、氣魄，不是榮邦，加邦才對啊！加一個邦交國，敢嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
林部長佳龍：我們一起來努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：有沒有機會？也不敢？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
林部長佳龍：有啦！現在世界上有很多國家都知道，其實像宏都拉斯，大家都知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
賴委員士葆：它跟我們斷交了。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
林部長佳龍：現在它的白蝦就賣不出去，所以我們不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你現在要叫它再賣到臺灣，我們和它再建交？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
林部長佳龍：大家要歡喜甘願交往才會長久，我們要同理心去替這些國家想，我們怎麼發展…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
賴委員士葆：枉費我前面這樣誇獎你，可是你後面都……敢不敢承諾斷交就要下台，你也不敢承諾，你這樣變成吳釗燮第二了，斷交5、6、7、8個都沒有關係，又不下台！請問你…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
林部長佳龍：我們是用做的，不是用說的啦，臺灣的外交真的很艱辛。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴委員士葆：外交做好才不會被斷交，老共的打壓不是只有今天。我問你現在最危險的邦交國，大家都講教廷很危險，守得住嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
林部長佳龍：梵蒂岡。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
賴委員士葆：梵蒂岡守得住嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
林部長佳龍：它很危險？沒有，它沒有很危險啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有很危險？人家說得很危險。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
林部長佳龍：怎麼會危險？我們好好的跟它發展關係，臺灣的天主教徒也很多，它也是一個很注重價值的教廷。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
賴委員士葆：其實它一直要跟中國大陸建交，主要是因為中國大陸那邊的主教可以自己派，這一點解決就解決了，最近他們的關係就close了，又更緊密，你不會擔心？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
林部長佳龍：當然我們要密切關注，不只是關心。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
賴委員士葆：如果是紅、黃、綠，它應該屬於什麼燈？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
林部長佳龍：我認為只要我們努力…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
賴委員士葆：你告訴我，它是什麼燈？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
林部長佳龍：大家都會覺得跟臺灣交往真的是彼此互惠。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
賴委員士葆：我前面誇獎你就是希望你講真話，你都不敢講真話，不能這樣喔！最後，另外問你一個很重要的消息，你要認真講、說實話，川普說：老共只要打臺灣，他要轟炸北京，這句話你聽了怎麼樣？你的感覺呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
林部長佳龍：選舉期間就像臺灣一樣，我們候選人也是…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
賴委員士葆：選舉語言？選舉語言聽聽就好？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
林部長佳龍：這個是他們在選舉時候訴諸他們選民的支持，我們就不介入，基本上最終還是要觀察長期的臺美關係發展。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
賴委員士葆：他現在跟拜登兩人在飆車、打臺灣牌飆車，拜登說只要打，要出兵保衛臺灣，川普覺得這樣不夠，他要加碼，你打臺灣，我就轟炸北京，嚇嚇叫！所以你的感覺都是選舉語言？ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
林部長佳龍：他們要保衛臺灣，這一點我們要感謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
賴委員士葆：保衛臺灣當然要感謝啊！所以呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
林部長佳龍：因為臺海的和平與穩定涉及到全世界的利害關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
賴委員士葆：他打北京那是他們的事情，但問題臺灣就被打了，它用這個來刺激臺灣說要打臺灣，不要忘了戰場是在臺灣，臺灣怎麼打都是輸家，這個你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
林部長佳龍：我們臺灣是一個跟理念相近國家，基本上讓大家覺得我們不是在改變現狀，是對岸在改變現狀，因此世界都要一起來面對這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
賴委員士葆：你說這些話就像泥鰍一樣都抓不到，都沒有回答到。好啦！最後一個，你總是要讓我得到我要的答案，我就下去，好不好？你感覺川普講這個話是選舉語言嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
林部長佳龍：我覺得也不能這樣子就替他來斷言，我們還是要持續關注這個發展。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
賴委員士葆：拜登說要出兵保衛臺灣，因為從阿富汗、越南之後，從來沒有在海外出兵，烏克蘭都沒有，他會出兵臺灣嗎？這個看起來就是選舉語言嘛，對不對？你給我一個答案，你聽到是more than happy、happy還是no comment？ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
林部長佳龍：他們現在就是認為比較像是中共在改變現狀，他們希望跟臺灣一樣能夠維護現狀，在這一點上面我們是立場一致，至於大國之間不管是涉及到動不動兵的問題，尤其在選舉期間，臺灣會密切關注，但我們也不去介入他們內政的部分，但是值得關注喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
賴委員士葆：你沒有回答問題，是more than happy嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
林部長佳龍：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有？不happy嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
林部長佳龍：不會啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你是不happy聽到這個消息…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
林部長佳龍：但是大家要保護臺灣，或確保臺海的和平和穩定，我們是支持的。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：本席再說一句話啦！任何國家幫助臺灣，我們舉雙手雙腳贊成，但是如果對我們過度好，像美國議員說的，到時候戰場變成臺灣，這對我們來說是不好的。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][1] |
接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
202 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-23 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
149 |
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2024-05-30 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1135301 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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1135301_00004 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.65 |
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3.335 |
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謝謝主席及各位部長尤其林部長已經在那裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
7.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
你是接了新職宣誓就任後第一次來嗎對 第一次來這裡人是不錯的林佳龍就外面黨外或是在野黨的對你不會討厭不會討厭謝謝但我們希望你講真話因為我就知道你希望講真話而且你勇於擔當出事情的交通部長你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
34.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
42.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
賴主,來,我就問你一個,聽說很多的報導啦,說這個位置不是你的首選啦,你點頭嗎?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
47.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
63.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
不是首選喔我聽得懂你講的不是首選嘛有更適合的人才的話我們當然這個可以嘛不是說話又要倒過來講嘛你比較想那個位置去用講去所以之後無奈端端有就好這樣說對不對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
68.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
94.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你這樣說就是這樣啊,不是你首選啊,不是你的首選啊有人要擔比較重的擔子齁,我們應該給他加油對嘛,你這講出來選外之音嘛,你應該想去現在卓榮泰的位置嘛卓榮泰什麼位置,行政院長,對不對,我也覺得你來做比較好勒你的精力比他多很多勒,卓榮泰做院長你不做院長,我替你報不平勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
96.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
107.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你有沒有感覺我跟你很知音?我講出你心裡的話。其實外交工作很重要啊。沒有啦,我選政院長啦。選政院長更重要啦。總統跟院長認為我來這裡可以為國家貢獻。你覺得你來這裡會委屈? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
118.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
141.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
昨天他就做院長,被你的長官搞奇怪,你的經歷,他都沒有首長的經歷,你都有。你做立委,你也做過立委。比一比嘛,我們英文流言你都很清楚,我們叫track record,過去的經歷。你經歷這麼漂亮,做過台中市長、部會首長、做過立委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
142.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
外交對台灣最重要了,台灣現在是外交最重要。外交很辛苦,來這裡做不成績啦,來這裡做不成績啦。有你的支持,我一定會更有成績。外交什麼成績?你現在能不能講說,第一個以後任內,你當部長任內,絕對不會有一條再斷條,你這樣說。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
166.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
187.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們全力以赴,顧好邦交,而且要繁榮我們的邦交國啊,讓他跟我們的關係更親密。你再可以拿出來,官位拿出來,有什麼拿出來,我林佳龍,你只要講到這樣,給我五十年間的一三天,給我去屁股,現金還回來了,一年內如果斷交一國,下台,幹,這樣講。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
200.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們要先看比較正向來思考我們的外交工作外交部長沒有外交國你什麼叫外交你認同說臺灣如果邦交國變冷也沒關係你認同嗎我是全力以赴一定要不只固邦而且要龍邦什麼叫龍邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
233.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是繁榮我們的,跟我們有交往的國家,特別是我們的邦交國,不是是故郎,不是跟他亂說而已啦,要記得,真的是把他的國家的發展,我們台灣可以幫忙,好好地去做。我前陣子跟你說,我也是台中人,你很像台中市長,所以給你加一分,你知道嗎?結果你這樣,氣泡都沒拿出來,氣泡拿出來,氣泡氣泡,不是農幫,加幫才對啦,我要加一個邦交國,幹嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
258.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們一起來努力阿有啦現在很多世界的國家都知道說齁其實像宏都拉斯阿大家都知道阿他現在的白蝦就賣不出去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
259.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
260.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
林佳龍報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
284.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
298.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請問您我們用做的真的不是用說的啦真的台灣的外交很艱辛喔外交做好才不會被斷交啊對不對老公打壓不是今天打好讓我再問你現在最危險的邦交國現在大家講叫停很危險啦守得住嗎叫停叫停叫停梵蒂岡對梵蒂岡守得住嗎他很危險你說他沒有很危險啊沒有很危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
313.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
336.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其實中國大陸開始要跟中國大陸建交就是主要因為中國大陸的主教自己派這點解決就解決了最近他們的關係又close了又更揭秘你不會擔心當然我們要密切的關注如果紅綠紅黃綠他應該屬於什麼燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
357.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我是認為只要我們努力,大家都會覺得跟臺灣交往,真的是彼此好互惠。我剛才在你耳朵就是希望你講真話,你都不敢講真話,不會這樣喔。來,最後另外一個問你一個很重要的消息,這一定要認真講喔,說實話喔。川普說喔,老共要打台灣,他要轟炸北京,這句話你聽得怎麼樣?你的感覺? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
368.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他現在跟拜登兩個在飆車打台灣牌飆車 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
拜登說只要打要出兵保衛台灣然後川普覺得這樣不好他要吃馬你打台灣我就轟炸北京嚇嚇叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他們要保衛台灣這裡我們要感謝因為台海的和平與穩定涉及到是全世界的利害關係台灣就被打啦他用這個來刺激台灣說台灣要怎麼打不要忘了戰場在台灣台灣怎麼打都是輸家啦這個你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你感覺川普講這個話是選舉語言嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我覺得也不能這樣子就替他來斷言我們還是要持續關注這個發展拜登說要保衛台灣出兵因為從阿富汗從越南之後他從來沒有在海外出兵烏克蘭都沒有他會出兵台灣嗎這個看起來就是選舉語言嘛對不對那你給我一個答案嘛你是more than happy聽到還是happy聽到還是no comment |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
526.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他們現在就是認為其實比較是像是說因為中共在改變現狀他們希望跟臺灣一樣能夠維護現狀在這一點上面我們是立場一致可是至於說大國之間的不管是這一個涉及到的動不動兵的問題我們尤其在選舉我想臺灣的我們是密切關注但我們也不去介入他們認證的部分但是值得關注喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
528.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席 |